Banning Alternatives

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#1
Hey everyone,

I've been talking to Matt a lot over the past two days, dealing with the whole Cyan and Buddah thing. Out of all that we talked about, one thing stood out to us: why ban?

I've always thought it was strange that in message boards there were no alternatives to dealing with disputes and disruptions other than bans (and warnings, which are essentially pre-bans). It's like if you got put in jail for every single little thing you did in society, whether you burned a house, robbed a liquor store, or spat in someone's face. The truth is that there are many options for resolving disputes in between doing nothing and banning the shit out of people.

So we thought, we should figure this shit out, because in a community like this where everyone knows each other and people tend to talk their problems out, it doesn't make sense that the only official way we have of dealing with problems, past talking to people, is to ban them. Besides, the ban really doesn't do anything for the people involved. It does nothing to repair bridges burned between the people directly involved, it doesn't motivate them to improve themselves or their behavior, and it sure as hell doesn't do anything for the community.

So we want to find alternatives to the ban that we can use. And we'd like to see if anyone here has ideas for that.

For example, what if we allowed people to perform some community service to waive their bans? Or if we "fined" the people involved in some way (not monetarily, but by restricting some other kind of privilege, like losing their signature and profile pic, or something)?

We just talked about it an hour or so ago, so we don't have any concrete ideas yet. But we feel we need to come up with something because even though we felt forced to ban two users just yesterday, we now think that really, it's up to us to find better ways to deal with these things than to rely on shitty pre-established methods. So we'd appreciate any ideas the community has for this, and we'll also be thinking very hard about what we can do. And if we find a solution soon, we'll implement it starting with cyan and buddah in equal measure, to minimize the damage done to the community.
 

Koenig

The Architect
#2
Why not submerge their posts temporarily? Essentially hiding them under a spoiler for either a set amount of time or until they receive enough up-votes or a waver from mod to undo the "ban". people could still read them if they wanted to do, by their posts would clearly be labeled by the spoiler as submerged for bad behavior or something like that.
 

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
#3
Trying to teach two grown ass men a lesson for acting like themselves is always going to be an excercise in futility....

These are not children you are modding, these guys act this way all the time....

It's just one of those things like the time I got into a fist fight with one of my best friends, then after it happened, we were cooler than before....

Sometimes we are gonna butt heads, but after all is said and done we should be trying to make something positive come from it....

Banning well known members in an attempt to slap them on the wrist for literally speaking their minds is never going to accomplish anything....

Major will come back on the first day he is unbanned, literally having learned nothing from the experience, as well having not changed his opinion or attitude towards what happened at all....

If you guys would have just let them talk it out with each other, and with you, I'm sure this would have resolved itself by now....

This board isn't like other boards that are filled with a shit ton of youngsters.... We are most all adults here, so let's just act like it and work through any problems we have....

We are supposed to be a fucking family.... This shit is stupid....
 
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sjmartin79

White Phoenix of the Crown
#4
There needs to be some sort of consequence involved.

Cyan was an idiot to come back from his umpteenth time of quitting the boards only to go after anyone he felt had wronged him. Wrong way to approach the situation. And no one is going to take it well when you tell them to fuck off.

On the other hand, I didn't appreciate Major throwing around the word Goomba.

Frankly, they both need to grow the hell up. Was banning the right move? Who knows. But that was the decision at the time, and I respect the 3 guys and whatever they deem best for the boards.

If they had been allowed to stay, would either of them have tried to work through it and changed from it, or would they just have given lip service and still continued to act as before?

Submerging their posts isn't really efficient. Major is so well liked, he'd get enough votes instantly. (Please note, I'm not taking Cyan's side, I'm definitely not. I'm taking no sides. Just trying to think of something that would be fair for those involved this time and in the future.)

As I said, there needs to be some sort of consequence, whether it's a 3 strikes and you're out rule, because some people won't learn and will continue to be an issue. But I don't have a good answer for it. But I will respect and stand behind whatever decision is made.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#5
I want to feel the same way @LightsaberBlues, but when grown ass men get into a bar fight they don't get to stick around and talk it out. Obviously going all the way and banning for two weeks is excessive for grown ass men like them, though, but I don't believe letting them just hammer it out in public and without any consequence would be, either.

So what we want is to find a way to turn it around and make it work for the community. Not just for the two grown ass men who got themselves into a meaningless argument to begin with, but for the community as a whole, who gets disrupted by this kind of problem.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#6
There needs to be some sort of consequence involved.

Cyan was an idiot to come back from his umpteenth time of quitting the boards only to go after anyone he felt had wronged him. Wrong way to approach the situation. And no one is going to take it well when you tell them to fuck off.

On the other hand, I didn't appreciate Major throwing around the word Goomba.

Frankly, they both need to grow the hell up. Was banning the right move? Who knows. But that was the decision at the time, and I respect the 3 guys and whatever they deem best for the boards.

If they had been allowed to stay, would either of them have tried to work through it and changed from it, or would they just have given lip service and still continued to act as before?

Submerging their posts isn't really efficient. Major is so well liked, he'd get enough votes instantly. (Please note, I'm not taking Cyan's side, I'm definitely not. I'm taking no sides. Just trying to think of something that would be fair for those involved this time and in the future.)

As I said, there needs to be some sort of consequence, whether it's a 3 strikes and you're out rule, because some people won't learn and will continue to be an issue. But I don't have a good answer for it. But I will respect and stand behind whatever decision is made.
This is a great post, and I love the ending "I don't have a good answer for it". We come because we don't either, but we do believe in greater things for this great community.

Now obviously them 2 weren't gonna talk it out yesterday it was way to heated, and at that time we did what had to be done. And today and last night in private I have gotten ear fulls from both of them. Anyhow

As Jueg and I talked we know there are better ways in this awesome community to handle disapline. I'm trying to think of my own ideas aswell but it is difficult.

I thought your post was very fair on all sides Sjm. Thank you
 

FriedShoes

MLG
Moderator
#7
Would be work, but taking away privileges like being able to post media (links, videos, images), avatar removal (I'd say humiliation like they do over at the SA boards, but we're kinder folk). We're pretty much censor-free it seems on this site, I dont know if that should be looked into in the future.
LSB makes a damn good point though, my suggestions wouldnt do jack for grown people. We cant have that kind of shit-flinging thrown around. I support everyone else's thoughts so far.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#8
Nerdman says Penny Arcade has a cool infraction system/
MrNerdMan: penny arcade uses an infraction system
MrNerdMan: when you get an infraction, you get jailed.
MrNerdMan: which means your icon is behind bars, you bbcode is disabled, and you have a bigger time limit on posting
MrNerdMan: so many infractions will result in a ban
We actually have a system in Xenforo called "discourage", which essentially makes browsing the forums really shitty for the specific people you select. It makes it slow and erratic to load, and generally makes their experience on the boards painful. But I don't really like that, because all it does is drive the people involved away, and doesn't help the community in general.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#9
These are not children you are modding, these guys act this way all the time....
True, although I would argue I've seen kids deal with things far more maturely.

Personally, I'm fine with bans. If you insist upon getting into a fight and making things very personal on a very public internet forum, then what's the alternative? Shall I go around deleting posts? And then have people complain that they're being censored? Same goes for removing sigs or privileges. None of that seems like the answer.

It is not the responsibility of the staff here to mend fences between individuals. We are not grief counselors. If people want to suck it up, hug it out, come to an understanding, etc.? That's on them. It's their responsibility to do right. But there is only so much "you guys should take this to a PM" that we can say.

It's not like anyone here earns a ban lightly. We bend over backwards to not ban people. Pretty much our only rule is to not personally attack someone. I'm surprised that even needs to be reiterated, especially after everyone is conceding "we're dealing with adults here." Being an adult means understanding consequences.
 

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
#10
I'm not saying you shouldn't have banned these two, you guys are missing the point I was trying to make.... I'm saying banning these two will ultimately accomplish nothing when it comes to helping these two work out their differences....

But banning them did solve the problem, at least for the time being.... But it is only a temperary solution....

I'm not even saying I have a better way....

But I am saying that I'm starting to look at the relationships between all of us and wonder what that all really means....

If we are supposed to be fam, then think about like this....

If Major and Cyan were your brothers, like literally you guys all had the same fucking mother, how would you have handled this situation then...?

I'm starting to think this whole we are a family thing is not the case.... In fact, I'm starting to doubt it ever existed in the first place....

Make no mistake, you guys are "mods" so do what you gotta do, there ain't nothin I can say about that....

But just understand that your actions speak loud and clear, and what they say will be different for everyone here....

For me, it's bringing me to a realization.... So in the end, I guess I've learned something from all this.... That's at least something....
 
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Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#11
Could always make everything in their profile, avatar, posts, and whatnot the color pink. That way they go from being a douche into being FABULOUS!
 

nerdman

pig's gotta fly
#12
I don't like discourage, lol. Too dickish. Great for a true troll.

I will paraphrase what I said in the chat. I think TNE should adopt an infraction system.

Set it up however you like, but for the sake getting up and running fast, just start it out as a simple warning system. Once you have it, lift their bans, and give them infractions.

Also, please don't take this as me blaming the mods, but you guys have to take some responsibility for these things too. Learn the anatomy of a train-wreck thread. That thread gave plenty warning signs before shit really hit the fan.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#13
I'm not saying you shouldn't have banned these two, you guys are missing the point I was trying to make.... I'm saying banning these two will ultimately accomplish nothing when it comes to helping these two work out their differences....

But banning them did solve the problem, at least for the time being.... But it is only a temperary solution....

I'm not even saying I have a better way....

But I am saying that I'm starting to look at the relationships between all of us and wonder what that all really means....

If we are supposed to be fam, then think about like this....

If Major and Cyan were your brothers, like literally you guys all had the same fucking mother, how would you have handled this situation then...?

I'm starting to think this whole we are a family thing is not the case.... In fact, I'm starting to doubt it ever existed in the first place....

Make no mistake, you guys are "mods" so do what you gotta do, there ain't nothin I can say about that....

But just understand that your actions speak loud and clear, and what they say will be different for everyone here....

For me, it's bringing me to a realization.... So in the end, I guess I've learned something from all this.... I guess that's at least something....
I think you wanna make some noise right now but don't know why or how.

@nerdman and we knew that thread was no good, however we couldn't not let people speak there mind.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#15
I'm not saying you shouldn't have banned these two, you guys are missing the point I was trying to make.... I'm saying banning these two will ultimately accomplish nothing when it comes to helping these two work out their differences....

But banning them did solve the problem, at least for the time being.... But it is only a temperary solution....

I'm not even saying I have a better way....

But I am saying that I'm starting to look at the relationships between all of us and wonder what that all really means....

If we are supposed to be fam, then think about like this....

If Major and Cyan were your brothers, like literally you guys all had the same fucking mother, how would you have handled this situation then...?

I'm starting to think this whole we are a family thing is not the case.... In fact, I'm starting to doubt it ever existed in the first place....

Make no mistake, you guys are "mods" so do what you gotta do, there ain't nothin I can say about that....

But just understand that your actions speak loud and clear, and what they say will be different for everyone here....

For me, it's bringing me to a realization.... So in the end, I guess I've learned something from all this.... I guess that's at least something....
Well, families fight, dude. Siblings tussle and may not talk to each other (sometimes for years). But if those two want to work out their differences, we can't do it for them. Personal responsibility has to kick in somewhere. I mean, why would I ever put it on you to make things right for me and someone I have beef with? That would be really, really unfair to you. I'd never do that to you.

OTOH, I think of TNE as a community. A family mostly happens by accident of birth. A community, on the other hand, you have to choose. And I think everyone that chooses to come here and stays for awhile knows how damn open this place is. It's not like bans happen everyday. They almost never, ever, ever, ever happen (which is why a thread like this even gets made to ask for alternatives, because of the extraordinarily rare circumstances of any bans ever happening at all). Unless it's a spam account, I use my ignore list before ever reaching for the ban button. But I can only imagine if there was some person out there who wanted to join up with the forums, clicked most recent post, and saw that shit storm. That's when the decision gets made for us.

Think of it as famiglia. Don't disrespect the Bing. That's pretty much the only rule around here, as far as I can see.
 
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#16
I'm basically with sjmartin on this one.

Both people were acting like children. Fuck 'em. Ban them for two weeks, give the rest of us users a break from that bullshit.

Regardless what we do, they're gonna come back and act the same. They may not talk to each other, but nothing is really gonna change anything.

And honestly, how often does this stuff happen in TNE? Not often enough I would think for us to have a big site meeting on how to deal with this.


So yeah, I can't honestly think of anything that would change this. They're banned for two weeks, keep them banned til their time is up. That's all we can do.
 
#17
And to go on this "TNE is a family thing", if a family is having a get together, or a family reunion, and two little kids are having at it, give them a time out away from the rest of us so we can enjoy our reunion in peace.

Two kids acting out won't ruin a family this size, but it does put a damper on what should be a good time
 

simplyTravis

Lamer Gamers Podcast Co-Host
#18
I gotta say, dealing with children is much easier than adults. I put 2 1/2 years in to discipline coordination AP work and got out of it 99% due to the adults (parents) involved.

If they were children, I would have them go through the rules the first time as a warning potentially with a light punishment such as writing the rules down. Afterwards I would stick with whatever pre-determined punishment guidelines we have except in extreme circumstances. Behavior plans, positive reinforcement, and other things get involved first then you move down the line to this sort of thing..the negative reinforcement. Unfortunately in your situation that is what is normally used for forums.

Now, I don't want to call these two guys children. They are absolutely grown, adult men. We at TNE are civil to a certain extent far more than the barbarous hordes that exist in Neogaf, IGN, and other sundry forums ruled by the uncivil, attention seeking masses. The people here have done a great job getting away from that and creating this sort of oasis (not utopia..nothing is perfect) where people are able to say what they want while remaining civil for the sake of each other.

I would like to commend TNE for really taking the initiative to do something unusual by coming up with something more than mindless punishment (banning.) A lot of discipline problem children cause those problems out of a need for attention and they will try to get that attention any way they can, negative attention included but I am digressing.

If you can't get these two guys, which I have grown to both admire and respect for being true to themselves, to become civil with new methods you guys are trying out or on their own then let them know that they choose to leave TNE. It is not you, the mods, making this decision. They both know what they are doing and at some point during this "cool off period" (banning sounds too final, personally) I would try to let them know that.

Another thing would be to ask them to avoid each other to a certain extent, but that could cause people to choose sides.

Honestly, I would hope the bigger man asks the other to mend fences rather than burn a bridge down. Open an invitation to a game online (MK8, Smash, etc...) then just keep the talk about what brought them here in the first place, gaming.

I know I don't have any answers. I don't deal with adults personally and have always had a hard time with it because I very much live in the philosophy of "civility vs barbarism" and "you're an adult, you should know better" when it comes to dealing with them. Children have various developmental stages and expectations. After 18 you are just left to your own devices nowadays since society doesn't really have a say in what is expected. Most people mellow by 25 since their frontal lobes develop and they have a better idea of risk assessment.

Ok, I'm going to stop. Maybe some of this will make sense, help, or just be something to read.

Major and Cyan, if you guys read this, we want both of you back! There is literally no other online community that would work this hard to keep everyone together.
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#20
I gotta say, dealing with children is much easier than adults. I put 2 1/2 years in to discipline coordination AP work and got out of it 99% due to the adults (parents) involved.

If they were children, I would have them go through the rules the first time as a warning potentially with a light punishment such as writing the rules down. Afterwards I would stick with whatever pre-determined punishment guidelines we have except in extreme circumstances. Behavior plans, positive reinforcement, and other things get involved first then you move down the line to this sort of thing..the negative reinforcement. Unfortunately in your situation that is what is normally used for forums.

Now, I don't want to call these two guys children. They are absolutely grown, adult men. We at TNE are civil to a certain extent far more than the barbarous hordes that exist in Neogaf, IGN, and other sundry forums ruled by the uncivil, attention seeking masses. The people here have done a great job getting away from that and creating this sort of oasis (not utopia..nothing is perfect) where people are able to say what they want while remaining civil for the sake of each other.

I would like to commend TNE for really taking the initiative to do something unusual by coming up with something more than mindless punishment (banning.) A lot of discipline problem children cause those problems out of a need for attention and they will try to get that attention any way they can, negative attention included but I am digressing.

If you can't get these two guys, which I have grown to both admire and respect for being true to themselves, to become civil with new methods you guys are trying out or on their own then let them know that they choose to leave TNE. It is not you, the mods, making this decision. They both know what they are doing and at some point during this "cool off period" (banning sounds too final, personally) I would try to let them know that.

Another thing would be to ask them to avoid each other to a certain extent, but that could cause people to choose sides.

Honestly, I would hope the bigger man asks the other to mend fences rather than burn a bridge down. Open an invitation to a game online (MK8, Smash, etc...) then just keep the talk about what brought them here in the first place, gaming.

I know I don't have any answers. I don't deal with adults personally and have always had a hard time with it because I very much live in the philosophy of "civility vs barbarism" and "you're an adult, you should know better" when it comes to dealing with them. Children have various developmental stages and expectations. After 18 you are just left to your own devices nowadays since society doesn't really have a say in what is expected. Most people mellow by 25 since their frontal lobes develop and they have a better idea of risk assessment.

Ok, I'm going to stop. Maybe some of this will make sense, help, or just be something to read.

Major and Cyan, if you guys read this, we want both of you back! There is literally no other online community that would work this hard to keep everyone together.
Settle it in SMASH!
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#21
I got a suggestion from Menashe that I really like.



For those that don't know what a swear jar is, it's a jar that you put money into whenever you curse. Whether you curse a lot or not, you're saving money and making your life easier because of it at some point in the future. In other words, it's getting something positive out of a shitty thing.

What Menashe suggested is a very similar idea: have users that are looking to get banned put money into a "banned jar". Then at the end of the month, this money is used to buy the game for that month's "User of the Month" (which we'd have to do regularly again, or at least we'd do it during months when someone got banned). I think it's a very helpful way of getting something good for the community out of something bad for the community.

So for example, this month we'd ask both Cyan and Buddah to promise to put in $5 each into the Banned Jar if they want their bans lifted. Then at the end of the month we'd have people vote for the User of the Month, and that person would get their game bought with the Banned Jar's savings.

What do you guys think?
 

Koenig

The Architect
#22
Paying any sort of money would probably be prohibitively discouraging to any user in regards to coming back. Even I (being the cheap bastard that I am) would probably choose to lurk forever more if it meant that I had to pay money to lift a ban on me.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#24
Paying any sort of money would probably be prohibitively discouraging to any user in regards to coming back. Even I (being the cheap bastard that I am) would probably choose to lurk forever more if it meant that I had to pay money to lift a ban on me.
The ban runs it natural course either way. At the end of the ban, the user in question would come back no problem. Putting money into the Banned Jar is only to reduce or lift the ban, if the user wants to come back immediately. So it's an optional way of apologizing to the community and paying it forward, so to speak.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#25
I think it's a good idea to simply give someone an appeal to reduce a ban. It may be prohibitive to add money into the equation, though; you get into a sort of "pay to post" scenario there. But if Buddah or Cyan sends a PM asking for the ban to be lifted, I say fine, reduce it to one week or something, so long as they say they'll either a) leave each other alone, or b) go to a PM and hash it out. That also require realizing "yeah, there were things said that shouldn't have been said."

[And speaking of that, maybe next time it's just a matter of deleting posts/threads earlier and sending a warming PM. I know we like to let people argue, but when it gets personal and abusive, maybe it's better to head it off early. No one likes Buddah or Cyan not being around right now, me most definitely included, and a few deleted posts is a small price to pay.]
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
#26
Well, I've got nothing against banning. For me, it's the only way since this forum not only a family but an on-line gaming community. I mean, we're are here to have an environment where we can discuss Nintendo themes.

When people stop discussing games or stop saying regular personal feelings that don't harm and start to offend and attack people or being brute, laughing at people, etc, what can we do? Talk? No, I'm afraid the best option is ban.

TNE is an amazing community. I've been to many forums and I remember the day I was invited to come here. I'm still here and I think it's far away from other forums crowded with barbarians. This is a great forum where we've got adults that have brilliant ideas and opinions about gaming.

So, for me, when someone isn't following the rules of the community and people of the community need to read attacks and offences instead of gaming talking, those people are harming us that are here to talk about Nintendo.

This idea of deleting stuff or limiting the way the person uses the forum in my opinion may not help.

I believe in banning and I think the progressive banning is the way to discipline.

1 little offence - a warning and the user must apologise
more offences - 1 week of ban
and more offences - 2 weeks of ban
offences continue - 4 weeks of ban
more offences means you don't like this community - 1 year of ban
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
#27
If this community doesn't ban the people that don't act the way a community of users expect, so TNE Forum isn't a Nintendo discussion community, but a chat for "friends and family". In this case people that come here to discuss Nintendo, as Nintendo enthusiasts, will be less welcomed than the people that acts like that drunk cousin that curses family gatherings.

Of course, communities where you can find families or good friendship inside are great. This a good thing that we find it here, but before being a family I think this is a discussion forum for Nintendo fans and drunk cousins can't be allowed to make mess among the Nintendo fans that are here talking and having fun. I'm afraid this can be seen as a disrespect.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#28
I think Mike is right about the idea of putting money towards the member of the month's game being misguided. Talking to Matt more, we realized it would make it seem that anyone can say whatever they want as long as they're willing to pony up some money. Even if that's not necessarily true because the length of a ban would increase with each instance of disruptive behavior, it makes it seem as though we don't put correct weight on the severity of these issues.

So while we think the direction of that system is correct, that specific system isn't good enough right now. At any rate, I'm sure we'll have plenty of time to come up with something definitive before our next ban, which hopefully will be much later rather than sooner.
 
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Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#29
And here's another thing. With banning people, especially those who may not take it so lightly (Don't know how Buddah and Cyan took it, but that's not my concern), they may decide to create fake accounts and start spamming the forums, and the chat, anyway. In fact, I thought one or both of them did so on the Chat, but I never personally saw it, and only heard it from others.

I'm not suggesting we have to do commnity service, or keep bans, but like we're all saying what is the alternative? It's as though our hands are tied, but in actuality they are not, so we feel we have to ban because it's the only viable option right now. I don't know if there is something TNE can do, besides just banning people. Sure, we could use a strike system, where for every infraction you get a strike on your account, and if you get enough, you'll be banned (similar to the point system for your driver's license) for a period of time. But during that ban, no matter how much time it is, you can opt to reduce the ban if you contribute something to the community. But that last part is tricky, because this is the internet and not in real life, so for those who might be banned don't look at the situation as serious as we might make it out to be.

Maybe the best option for right now is to just keep the ban system, but you could also touch base with both Buddah and Cyan and have them reconcile their differences, with you guys monitoring the conversation. BUT! Maybe they act all apologetic in private, but then when they get back, it's business as usual. See what I'm getting at?

Perhaps the strike/infraction system is the best way to soften the blow, and if enough of them occur, then you're left with no choice, but to ban them for a period of time. It's obvious you guys don't like to ban people, especially those who you personally know, and/or are good friends with. With an infraction/strike system, the strikes could also expire after a certain amount of time of good behavior. So it could work like this:

Maximum of 5 points let's say. For each instance where you cause a disrupt on the forums, or verbally attack someone and make it all personal (or just do something like posting actual porn, or something), you get a strike. That strike will then be on your account, but it won't be made public, and can only be viewed by the user, and the mods. The strikes will be erased after a period of time (let's say 3 months), but if you keep causing a ruckus on the forums, those strikes pile up. Now, let's say during that 3 months you do something else, and get another strike. The first strike you got does not automatically get voided or something. It'll still expire after that 3 months, but once that expires, you'll still have that other strike on your account you just got.

Understand what I'm getting at here? It's no different than the point system for your driver's license. I had three points on my license for speed a few years ago, and after a year they expired, and now have no points on my license.

I know we don't want to seem the people to ban people outright, but sometimes you have to. After this is done, give Buddah and Cyan a pardon of some sort, and we'll start on a clean slate, with no one having any strikes.
 

sjmartin79

White Phoenix of the Crown
#30
@Shoulder - I like the strike idea, but instead of letting that first strike go after three months, if you get a second strike during that three month period, the clock starts over, and you have both strikes for the next three months. If after those three months, you're fine and haven't caused any problems, then both strikes go away. But if you cause problems during the three months, another strike, and the 3 month clock starts over. So, in essence, you have to get through 3 months with no issues for the strikes to go away, but if you cause problems again, another strike is added and the clock starts over, so if you are a habitual problem starter, you could end up getting all the strikes required for said ultimate punishment.
But if you learn your lesson and calm down, problem solved and accumulated strikes go away after 3 months of "good behavior".
 

BobSilencieux

Well-Known Member
#31
If a couple of guys get into a fight in a bar that i'm running, it's not my job to get them to talk through their differences and make up, it's my job to remove them from the premises so that the other customers can continue to enjoy their evening.

Major and Cyan are big enough and ugly enough to deal with their own issues, but I don't want to have to see any nastiness between anybody in the public forum. That's why i'm ok with bans...
 

NES_Dreams

Active Member
#32
Here's an alternative to the need for banning: Grow UP and don't act like a douchebag! That's RIGHT, kids! Much like the real world, you'll find that being rude/nasty to people will typically cause them to respond in turn!
;)

Side note: Regarding the word "Goomba", sorry, but that's something I'd not tolerate in a properly functioning community. Hurling childish insults like asshole, jerk, bastard, etc. can often be offensive and hurtful enough, when said put downs also begin involving a person's race and/or sexual preference, sorry, but nope -- there's the door.
(Ex: You are caucasian and get into a fight with a person of color. Things get heated as you both exchange blows and pushes. YOU get so enraged you call this person 'Cheep Cheep' in the heat of battle -- You have just committed a hate crime, and are probably not a very good sort.)

Real-world rules, kiddies, best to learn and absorb them now and save the potential regret later!
 

Cyan

Well-Known Member
#33
Here's an alternative to the need for banning: Grow UP and don't act like a douchebag! That's RIGHT, kids! Much like the real world, you'll find that being rude/nasty to people will typically cause them to respond in turn!
;)

Side note: Regarding the word "Goomba", sorry, but that's something I'd not tolerate in a properly functioning community. Hurling childish insults like asshole, jerk, bastard, etc. can often be offensive and hurtful enough, when said put downs also begin involving a person's race and/or sexual preference, sorry, but nope -- there's the door.
(Ex: You are caucasian and get into a fight with a person of color. Things get heated as you both exchange blows and pushes. YOU get so enraged you call this person 'Cheep Cheep' in the heat of battle -- You have just committed a hate crime, and are probably not a very good sort.)

Real-world rules, kiddies, best to learn and absorb them now and save the potential regret later!
No offence, but the last post was Mar 26 of this year. While TNE Doesn't care about Necroposting this topic would have been better off to stay buried, as it effected a good bit of TNE negatively. Opening old wounds and such.

That's a damn good post though.
 

NES_Dreams

Active Member
#34
Oh, really? Damn, six months didn't strike me as "necro". It certainly wasn't my intention to "open old wounds" or anything of the sort, sigh. :oops:

And thanks for the compliment.
 

Majorbuddah

My real name is Dolemite
#35
Here's an alternative to the need for banning: Grow UP and don't act like a douchebag! That's RIGHT, kids! Much like the real world, you'll find that being rude/nasty to people will typically cause them to respond in turn!
;)

Side note: Regarding the word "Goomba", sorry, but that's something I'd not tolerate in a properly functioning community. Hurling childish insults like asshole, jerk, bastard, etc. can often be offensive and hurtful enough, when said put downs also begin involving a person's race and/or sexual preference, sorry, but nope -- there's the door.
(Ex: You are caucasian and get into a fight with a person of color. Things get heated as you both exchange blows and pushes. YOU get so enraged you call this person 'Cheep Cheep' in the heat of battle -- You have just committed a hate crime, and are probably not a very good sort.)

Real-world rules, kiddies, best to learn and absorb them now and save the potential regret later!
i love those properly functioning communities where people aren't allowed to say what they're really thinking. i mean hate. yeah, hate.

if i can't handle someone using the word Cheep Cheep, then guess what? i'm a fucking child too.

these "no put-down" policies they taught in school have fucking ruined a generation. no one knows how to stand up for themselves anymore cause they've been protected and coddled to the point that a simple insulting word or two drops them to their weak fucking knees and causes a commotion. when my dad was in his 20's they were beating black people with sticks, attacking them with dogs, spraying them with fire hoses and hanging them from trees. THAT'S what hate crimes look like. typing the word Goomba on the fucking internet trivializes every bit of that. hate crime.... Cheep Cheep please...

keep that skin extra thin for us, SJW's.
 

NES_Dreams

Active Member
#36
i love those properly functioning communities where people aren't allowed to say what they're really thinking. i mean hate. yeah, hate.

if i can't handle someone using the word Cheep Cheep, then guess what? i'm a fucking child too.

these "no put-down" policies they taught in school have fucking ruined a generation. no one knows how to stand up for themselves anymore cause they've been protected and coddled to the point that a simple insulting word or two drops them to their weak fucking knees and causes a commotion. when my dad was in his 20's they were beating black people with sticks, attacking them with dogs, spraying them with fire hoses and hanging them from trees. THAT'S what hate crimes look like. typing the word Goomba on the fucking internet trivializes every bit of that. hate crime.... Cheep Cheep please...

keep that skin extra thin for us, SJW's.
It could also be said that using those words with such disregard shows an utter lack of basic respect/life experience. We are talking about words born of pure hate and fear, words used to systematically oppress and degrade millions of people. Rather hypocritical of you to reference the horrors of the Civil Rights Movements of the 60s and then end your statement with a flippant "Cheep Cheep please", but hey, you have that right and it's your world.
 

NES_Dreams

Active Member
#38
it's people who think like you giving those words power, not the ones using them.

"he said the word Goomba! NOW IT'S SERIOUS........"
You'll typically find that people don't really enjoy having racist and/or homophobic epithets hurled at them. Internet forums are much like the real world in this aspect. If those words are WELL established catalysts for everything from the Ku Klux Klan to murdering people based on what they do with their genitalia, WHY use them at all, in any context?

It's got nothing to do with being a "justice warrior", more of a conscious choice to NOT debase others. The word 'Shy-Guy' being tossed around as if it were the word popcorn by hordes of caucasian punkasses via the internet...yeah, pretty progressive mindsets leading us into a bright future eh? :rolleyes:

Grow up and get over yourself would be my best advice. Just because you have the 'right' to say something, does that necessarily mean that you should? What these words mean to you is irrelevant; you must consider that they cut some people very deeply and continue to be ugly stains on humanity.
 

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
#39
You'll typically find that people don't really enjoy having racist and/or homophobic epithets hurled at them. Internet forums are much like the real world in this aspect. If those words are WELL established catalysts for everything from the Ku Klux Klan to murdering people based on what they do with their genitalia, WHY use them at all, in any context?

It's got nothing to do with being a "justice warrior", more of a conscious choice to NOT debase others. The word 'Shy-Guy' being tossed around as if it were the word popcorn by hordes of caucasian punkasses via the internet...yeah, pretty progressive mindsets leading us into a bright future eh? :rolleyes:

Grow up and get over yourself would be my best advice. Just because you have the 'right' to say something, does that necessarily mean that you should? What these words mean to you is irrelevant; you must consider that they cut some people very deeply and continue to be ugly stains on humanity.
Major Buddah is very Black.... Just to let you in on that....
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
#43
Oh, really? Damn, six months didn't strike me as "necro". It certainly wasn't my intention to "open old wounds" or anything of the sort, sigh. :oops:

And thanks for the compliment.
You did a nice post and I RAPed it, it's totally true. The thread is old but what you said is the truth and the truth is the truth until the end of the universe.

Calling people names and tell them to fuck off is not ok in a community, never.
 

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
#46
No I didn't mean you, I've never known you to be the kind of person that harms a community knowingly or by being careless. :mthumb:
NES PM'd me and I told him what I thought.... He was kind enough to PM me instead of bringing it to the boards after you posted to do so....

I have no reason to believe NES would cause any trouble for anyone here either....

Nope, just two dude talkin shit out.... I think NES will do just fine here honestly....

I like him....

Even if me and him won't always see eye to eye on some things....
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
#47
It could also be said that using those words with such disregard shows an utter lack of basic respect/life experience. We are talking about words born of pure hate and fear, words used to systematically oppress and degrade millions of people. Rather hypocritical of you to reference the horrors of the Civil Rights Movements of the 60s and then end your statement with a flippant "Cheep Cheep please", but hey, you have that right and it's your world.

Yeah, there's basic respect, of course, and that's why there's something called moderation.

Internet communities should be moderated in order to make it a place for moderated discussion and not a place of "Fuck off, I say what I want, I'm a man and you shut up". Otherwise the community becomes unfair and dysfunctional and nice and new people like you, NES_Dreams, who contributes to the discussions, just leave to search for a more serious community.

That's why on that time the moderators took action here and banned and that's why I'm in favour of banning. There's no alternative to that. The other alternative is the people who doesn't accept this sort of ridiculous misbehaviour just leave the community.
 

NES_Dreams

Active Member
#48
No I didn't mean you, I've never known you to be the kind of person that harms a community knowingly or by being careless. :mthumb:
One time I "harmed a community" unknowingly, and it would do my soul good to confess to you all now........
One day at dusk I was taking a huge leak only to find that I was pissing all over a massive ant hill/colony, sigh. Sorry, ants, you certainly didn't deserve to have your world wrecked from above by torrential beer urine. Noble warriors and servants to the monarchy, all. (single tear slowly trickles down my cheek)
 

Majorbuddah

My real name is Dolemite
#49
You'll typically find that people don't really enjoy having racist and/or homophobic epithets hurled at them. Internet forums are much like the real world in this aspect. If those words are WELL established catalysts for everything from the Ku Klux Klan to murdering people based on what they do with their genitalia, WHY use them at all, in any context?

It's got nothing to do with being a "justice warrior", more of a conscious choice to NOT debase others. The word 'Shy-Guy' being tossed around as if it were the word popcorn by hordes of caucasian punkasses via the internet...yeah, pretty progressive mindsets leading us into a bright future eh? :rolleyes:

Grow up and get over yourself would be my best advice. Just because you have the 'right' to say something, does that necessarily mean that you should? What these words mean to you is irrelevant; you must consider that they cut some people very deeply and continue to be ugly stains on humanity.
don't tell me to grow up or get over myself again. it's dismissive, and if for some unearthly reason i think i need your advice i'll ask you for it.

offensive language isn't going anywhere, and nobody has the right not to be offended. it's how you handle it that matters. being a cry baby and saying that hurtful words shouldn't be allowed to exist is unrealistic and stupid. if people decide they need filtered conversation and a general PG-13 environment to protect their feelings, then they are free to seek out or create that. if that's what this is, then it's some bitch shit and i don't belong here. don't tell a man he can't have a steak because a baby can't chew it.

i don't advocate the extreme of telling people what they're allowed to say anymore than i advocate the extreme of someone running around screaming ice cream and sundaes at the top of their lungs. both are obnoxious and tell more about the person making noise than the noise itself. there is nothing i can do to erase the word Cheep Cheep from the english language - all i can control is how i choose to let it effect me and try not to be a catfish about it. telling someone they can't say certain words cause i might get "triggered" just makes me a weak person. zero fortitude. i can't stand that shit.

i do think that we should try to be nice to each other. and i think that typically we all do. but it's not because of some policy that says we have to. if you want to ban someone then have it be for spamming or fucking with the messaging system, not cause you don't like the word someone used to get their ideas across.
 
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mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#50
don't tell me to grow up or get over myself again. it's dismissive, and if for some unearthly reason i think i need your advice i'll ask you for it.

offensive language isn't going anywhere, and nobody has the right not to be offended. it's how you handle it that matters. being a cry baby and saying that hurtful words shouldn't be allowed to exist is unrealistic and stupid. if people decide they need filtered conversation and a general PG-13 environment to protect their feelings, then they are free to seek out or create that. if that's what this is, then it's some bitch shit and i don't belong here. don't tell a man he can't have a steak because a baby can't chew it.

i don't advocate the extreme of telling people what they're allowed to say anymore than i advocate the extreme of someone running around screaming Cheep Cheepfaggot at the top of their lungs. both are obnoxious and tell more about the person making noise than the noise itself. there is nothing i can do to erase the word Cheep Cheep from the english language - all i can control is how i choose to let it effect me and try not to be a Lakitu about it. telling someone they can't say certain words cause i might get "triggered" just makes me a weak person. zero fortitude. i can't stand that shit.

i do think that we should try to be nice to each other. and i think that typically we all do. but it's not because of some policy that says we have to. if you want to ban someone then have it be for spamming or fucking with the messaging system, not cause you don't like the word someone used to get their ideas across.
Here's the rub tho. Some words are offensive, and some are more offensive then others to certain people groups.

If you can't say it to a person in real life face to face. Then it shouldn't be permitted on a forum.

Now let's drop this sillyness of talkin names and move on.
 
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