Bayonetta 1 & 2

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
#1
All right folks, time to start leaving some feedback on one of the most anticipated games to grace the Wii U. It doesnt seem like all that long ago that the Nintendo Direct in early 2013 broke the news that Bayonetta 2 would be exclusive to Wii U, and now that its here, does the game live up to you expectations?

For me, I never played Bayonetta before, so this is an unbelievable value for myself, essentially two games for the price of one. I am starting with the original Bayonetta first. I figured it just made more sense to start with the original. The one thing about Platinum is there combat systems are fairly simple, but also complex. You can learn insane numbers of different combo's if you want, or you can simply learn to use a few simple combo's effectively. The more complex combo's arent necessary, but can certainly make destroying the enemy more rewarding, and the style and fashion in which you destroy them has more wow factor for sure. In a way, it reminds me of Tekken Tag 2, if you look at the fighters combo list, you will think to your self how in the world will I ever remember all these, and odds are, you wont remember all of them, but you dont need to either. Start by learning just a few simple combo's, and then move on from there. Like Tekken, you wont be a mater of the combat on a single play through, you could probably play a Platinum game for 50 hours, and still be making improvements to you skill set. When going into Witch Time, I see a lot of Viewtiful Joe memories come back to me. You just feel so empowered in these moments, and honestly, it doesnt feel cheap. Dodging attacks in Bayonetta is far more challenging than a game like Batman Arkham City, but its so rewarding as well. Most games you learn a handful of different moves, and thats pretty much what you have to work with, but Bayonetta gives you far more options, it just comes down to how many do you want to learn.

@mattavelle1
This will probably piss you off, cause I know you love Wonderful 101, but Bayonetta will get praised for doing a lot of the things that turned people off from Wonderful 101. I think people will be more willing to take the time to learn the combat system in Bayonetta, and many of those same people, like myself, never played W101 long enough for it to really come together.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#2
Yeah it won't bother me honestly because the 2 games are so different. I wish people had taken more time with W101 but that just is what it is. I am glad to hear that people will put in the effort at Bayonetta because they deserve it for sure. Absolutely fantastic games.

When Bayo2 was announced for WiiU I went out and got 1 for my 360 just to catch up on the series and see what was up. I love the game a lot honestly. I will also start on Bayo1 again before moving on too 2.

Plus it will be cool to go thru the game fresh with you guys, and it's been a year or 2 since I played it so it will be nice to go thru the series again. I'll be picking up my copy today more than likely. I'll be back with impressions and I also can't wait to read more feedback in this thread aswell.

Be warned tho people not everyone is going to start with 2 so watch out for spoilers please. I myself will be starting with 1.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#3
Yeah let's keep it spoilers free in terms of bosses, story, and gameplay sequences. When we talk about those things, let's just make sure to use the spoilers tags.
Code:
[spoiler]TEXT HERE[/spoiler]
[spoiler="SPOILER TITLE"]TEXT HERE[/spoiler]
Examples:
TEXT HERE
TEXT HERE
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I've been playing Bayo 1 for a while, taking a quick break right now. It's pretty good, but definitely overwhelming. I know that I can do fine just by learning 3 or 4 different combos, but when I get presented with so many options I want to try them all out at the same time, balls deep, so that's overwhelming.

All the "cinematic moments" are pretty cool so far, but I definitely would have been much more surprised by them 5 years ago than today. Definitely excited to keep playing the game, though.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#4
Have had a crap few days, so cracking into Bayo 1 tonight with some Brooklyn Octoberfest is gonna be my reward.
For me, I never played Bayonetta before, so this is an unbelievable value for myself, essentially two games for the price of one.
Two of the greatest action games ever...allegedly. Time to find out.

But also a bunch of fan service thrown in, and a co-op multiplayer mode to look forward to. Might not quite rival the Prime Trilogy for value, but it's up there.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#5
Actually @Goodtwin you have brought up a point that I would like to talk about at length later on. And that is who outta Platinums fans will enjoy Bayo. What I mean by that is that for example fans of Viewtiful Joe should enjoy Bayo more than W101. Were as the fans of Okami would enjoy W101 more than possibly Bayo. Interesting thoughts I can't shake that you brought up.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
#6
Actually @Goodtwin you have brought up a point that I would like to talk about at length later on. And that is who outta Platinums fans will enjoy Bayo. What I mean by that is that for example fans of Viewtiful Joe should enjoy Bayo more than W101. Were as the fans of Okami would enjoy W101 more than possibly Bayo. Interesting thoughts I can't shake that you brought up.
No question, plenty of Viewtiful Joe trade marks of sprinkled in Bayonetta, from the way they do cut scenes to how they give you the quick 3 angle instant replay when you finish a guy off. I will say this, Platinums Normal difficulty is more like Hard compared to other games. I am playing on normal, and getting lots of stone trophys at the end of chapters. I stink right now, but getting the hang of it as i go.
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#7
Have had a crap few days, so cracking into Bayo 1 tonight with some Brooklyn Octoberfest is gonna be my reward.

Two of the greatest action games ever...allegedly. Time to find out.

But also a bunch of fan service thrown in, and a co-op multiplayer mode to look forward to. Might not quite rival the Prime Trilogy for value, but it's up there.
So if Platinum decides to make a Bayo 3 for Wii U, and bundle all three games for those who don't own any of them, would that count?

It' funny, everyone here is talking about Bayo 2, and here I am who just bought the Metro Redux bundle for 25 bucks last night.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#9
Yeah the story's not making sense, it's just cool shit happening in cool cutscenes.

Sometimes. Cause most of the times it's those really shitty stills that are supposed to look like a film reel. Those are awful, I can't believe they ever thought they were a good idea, beyond saving money. It could have been cool once, as a homage to film and as a reference to Viewtiful Joe, but anything past that has been obnoxious.

Well at least that's for Bayo 1. I'm hoping Bayo 2 doesn't have that.
 

Cubits

Well-Known Member
#10
It does.

I want to believe they were trying some manga thing, but it doesn't really have the art style to work that angle. It looks cheap, which is a shame because the real cutscenes are absolutely fantastic, briiliantly choreographed.

With the budget, I can only assume they persisted in the sequel for continuity.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#11
Also, what's that blurriness in Bayo 1? The game runs at a beautiful 60fps most of the time (except in cutscenes), but it has that weird effect to it when you rotate the camera, where everything looks just a little blurry. I've seen it in many other games, but then again I don't remember seeing it in recent games. Is it the FXAA? Or could it be maybe some kind of dithering? (All the colors do look kind of washed out, and I think I remember the same feeling in Skyward Sword.)
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#13
I gotta say one thing that's really bothered me about Bayo 1: the camera. The camera SUCKS. It has a really storng re-center effect that fucks with you not just when walking around and trying to get a view of things, but even in battle when you have to keep an eye on where the enemies are and what they're doing.

Lots of games have a recentering camera (not Monster Hunter, though), but this game's recentering camera is absurd and intrusive.

Also I'll say that Fly Me to the Moon was cool (but tacky) the first time, but it got old quick. Similarly for Bayonetta's theme, actually, though it's still a great theme.

Other than that (and the story being shitty, even if on purpose, and the graphical stuff I talked about earlier), the game is really great so far, and it's just getting better.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#14
I like the honesty up in here, and I agree with it all. Only thing I don't really have a problem with is the camera, it hasent really messed with me at all, or I haven't paid it any attention like that.
 
#15
gotta put buying this on the back burner. Got a bulged disc, now, not sure if work is gonna keep me around. I called 3 times friday to see about short term disability and no one has returned my calls. Don't know if i'll have a job to go back to. Sucks... Then the little one starts day care... Don't know how we're gonna swing this one... So sadly no new purchases for awhile. Good thing i preordered Smash a long time ago. Hope you guys are enjoying it! I enjoyed the demo!
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#16
Yeah, the story is execrable thus far (granted, I'm not at chapter 7 yet). I don't mind the comic panel interludes, tbh. I can't say I picked up this game expecting a memorable tale; I picked it up because I expected it to blow my ears off with action.

Visually, it's got style, I'll give it that. I haven't noticed the blurriness (is it a depth of field filter, @juegosmajicos?) but that's probably because I'm still trying to adjust to keeping track of all of the action. I've played it on "easy," and once in awhile I've noticed Bayo basically going across the screen to an enemy without my control; is this something they tossed into the easier difficulties? I'll play it on normal if that's the case, but I planned on more than one play through.

On the combat, I'm the type of player who is gonna try to stick with a few combos. I appreciate all of the options, but half a dozen combos is probably as much as I'll memorize, in part because you can go right into shooting so easily.

Anywho, so far, it's good. I'm not far in, so I'm waiting for my mind to be blown.
So if Platinum decides to make a Bayo 3 for Wii U, and bundle all three games for those who don't own any of them, would that count?
Sure, but I think this counts as-is. If this game is anything like Vanquish, it'll have replayability out the ass due to the difficulty and fun factor. Makes a 6-hour game into 20+hour game. And I fully plan on replaying this as Bayo-Samus and Bayo-Link, too.
 

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
#17
gotta put buying this on the back burner. Got a bulged disc, now, not sure if work is gonna keep me around. I called 3 times friday to see about short term disability and no one has returned my calls. Don't know if i'll have a job to go back to. Sucks... Then the little one starts day care... Don't know how we're gonna swing this one... So sadly no new purchases for awhile. Good thing i preordered Smash a long time ago. Hope you guys are enjoying it! I enjoyed the demo!
Hang in there Red....
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
#20
I've been alternating between playing aria of sorrow and bayonetta... I play aria of sorrow while watching shows, but bayonetta I want to play on the big screen
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#23
I finished bayo 1 last night. I wasn't finding it so hard from battle to battle, as I was getting Gold consistently, with the occasional pure platinum; but what brought my overall chapter rankings down to stone was dying over and over again on stupid difficulty spikes.

Those Kinship, the flying boats that throw missiles at you, are a real fucking bitch. It takes a single missile hitting you for you to get hit by the rest and lose most of your health with a single mistake. Even once you're on the back of one Kinship, you still gotta learn to dodge the claws, and the other Kinships' lasers by recognizing the audio cue, before you can survive these battles.

And the goddamn Gracious and Glorious are stupidly hard. Grace and Glory were bad enough, but at least you could witch time them, but I still don't have a reliable tactic against the Gracious and Glorious. I just dodge and dodge and dodge (while shooting to keep combo going) until I build enough magic to torture them (and it's not like I can keep taunting them, cause they're fast as hell). Still, that only takes about half of their health, which means I have to do this multiple times. Occasionally I can get away with just doing the shoulder push attack, which is very handy, but the damage is minor.

It doesn't help that I was wearing that stupid talisman that makes enemies pissed off all of the time, which means they attack faster and (I think) harder.
 

repomech

resident remnant robot relic
#25
If you're only playing the first game to understand the story in the second, I've heard the anime covers the same ground in less time than even the game's cut scenes (apparently there were a few hours worth of cut scenes in total in the first game).
 

nerdman

pig's gotta fly
#26
Picked this up yesterday. Started the original since I never fully played through the first one.

I spent an absurd amount of time in the tutorial section doing combos. I can't remember playing any fighters that required delayed inputs for commands. I'm trying to get used to that.

I will approach this like I did W101. I won't learn every combo, but I will learn a few big bad ass combos so I can rack up that damage.

(apparently there were a few hours worth of cut scenes in total in the first game).
I think I will count how many times I cringe.
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#27
If you're only playing the first game to understand the story in the second, I've heard the anime covers the same ground in less time than even the game's cut scenes (apparently there were a few hours worth of cut scenes in total in the first game).
The anime has a completely different beginning than the game.

As for Bayonetta's story, its one you have to think about by reading up on the lore within the game. She has amnesia you know so everything isnt immediately clear from the get go.

You do understand how she got to whatever point she is at though correct?
 
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Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#28
@juegosmajicos Sorry you're having issues with the camera lol!! ( I have had none)

@Mike D. My advice is, ignore everything that's happening on screen that isnt the enemy you're focused on and any other enemies within your peripheral vision. Bayonetta is about learning how the enemies fight, their tells, movements ect and gracefully eviscerating through them as quickly as possible with your variety of combos.

Taunting the enemies is also a great way to make the enemies more aggressive as its easier to get higher scores that way

Do you guys know how to use dodge offset?
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#29
Picked this up yesterday. Started the original since I never fully played through the first one.

I spent an absurd amount of time in the tutorial section doing combos. I can't remember playing any fighters that required delayed inputs for commands. I'm trying to get used to that.

I will approach this like I did W101. I won't learn every combo, but I will learn a few big bad ass combos so I can rack up that damage.


I think I will count how many times I cringe.
TW101 barely has any combos, just link sequences XD

Personally I like TW101 more as its mostly about changing your weapon or weapon size with each character having a basic skill set. From there its linking the attacks together so you can keep attacking without any delayed end
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#30
Bayonetta 2 is drastically different from the first game btw. Bayonetta's normals are weaker, they changed up the flow of combat, they fixed the issue where angel weapons will replace one of your weapon movesets ( since its on a different button compared to bayo 1) ect along with quite a few differences in the engine.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#31
Just started playing Bayo 2, but it already feels like a much better game. Much better presentation (even if those shitty comic-like stills are back, they're quicker and don't disrupt the flow of storytelling so much), looks better, is funnier, has better voice acting, much better music (so far), and the delayed input combos only come in after a few hits, not after the first one, making it less likely for mistakes to happen early in a combo.

Also, the umbran climax mechanic is a great addition, as it gives a way of using the magic meter that isn't just punishing or the rigid shoulder bash or heel stomp. I hear the story doesn't take itself as seriously this time, either, which I'm looking forward to.

I'm much more excited to be playing this than when I was playing the first one.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#32
Doing much better in this game than the first one. Getting a pure platinum at the last verse of the chapter felt fucking awesome, especially cause I was constantly one hit away from dying.

WiiU_screenshot_TV_01726.jpg
 

repomech

resident remnant robot relic
#34
The anime has a completely different beginning than the game.

As for Bayonetta's story, its one you have to think about by reading up on the lore within the game. She has amnesia you know so everything isnt immediately clear from the get go.

You do understand how she got to whatever point she is at though correct?
No I don't, I never played the first game. My experience with Bayonetta consists of trailers and the demo for 2. Good to know about the difference between the anime and game. I am not 100% convinced I am going to care all that much about the story, I simply don't want to be completely lost. I was also kind of hoping to jump straight into the second game, reserving the first for a hypothetical rainy day.
 
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Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#35
Well Bayonetta 2 is better than Bayonetta 1 so I dont know why you'd start with 2 first.

Bayonetta has amnesia and the first game is about her finding herself and its very lore heavy. So you do a lot of reading of stuff you find in the game to figure out what the people are talking about. Its sort of like jumping into Blazblue in Continuum Shift without knowing how the world is structured politically, any character backstory or the scientific terminology but having a general idea of whats going on, then you figure it all out as you go along

Its narrative structure is kind of like a 90's anime
 

repomech

resident remnant robot relic
#36
Well Bayonetta 2 is better than Bayonetta 1 so I dont know why you'd start with 2 first.
The first part of your statement answers the second. It's very possible that I will simply never get around to playing the first game. Certainly I'd rather not feel like I had to in order to enjoy 2.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#37
If I didn't have the first one available, I'd definitely just read the manga or an overview and dive into Bayo2. I wouldn't seek it out to play on my friend's PS3. But since it's pretty much a free pack-in, I feel obligated. :p
 

Cubits

Well-Known Member
#40
You can smash through 1 pretty quickly, this is hardly like playing through the mass effect trilogy.

I like how you can see the development progression between the games, and how w101 fits in the middle nicely.
 

Cubits

Well-Known Member
#42
That's such an anime thing!

The whole game is clearly a mashup of classic anime: Fighting giant angels from neon genesis, summoning demons from hellsing, the fanservice from every sexy witch anime ever...

And like every anime it had to have a classic, non-Japanese car (usually obscure and European, like the a310 in evangelion), and an annoying character with a suitably annoying voice.

It's pretty much a perfect distillation of the whole medium.
 
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Koenig

The Architect
#45
Got platinum and gold in the first few levels, then the city on fire kicked my ass as if it were one of her God damned torture attacks.

 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#46
Just finished Bayo 2. It was fucking awesome, much better than the first one. There's so much more polish to it, even if there's still those stupid comic-like, still-like cutscenes that I just won't shut up about.

I have to say the last couple of chapters are not as exciting as Wonderful 101's last few chapters were. But it was really amazing overall, lots of crazy awesome stuff going on all the time that I won't talk about because why would any of earth's creatures spoil this for another.

I honestly don't know if I liked the combat here or in W101 better. Bayo 2 is ultra tight, but W101 had a certain puzzle element to its combat that made it more engaging to me. Having to figure out when to block, when to dodge, when to parry, when to pull the turtles' tail with the whip, and when to bring out your sword for an RE4-style knife QTE, was really unique and rewarding. Bayo 2 rewards you a bit more for your reflexes than your thinking, in comparison.

But it's almost wrong to compare them. Both are freaking amazing games, though Bayo 2 might win in terms of spectacle (though again, I don't know that anything will touch W101's ending for a while).
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
#48
What frustrates me at times, is that I know I am going to have a few deaths in the process of figuring out how to fight these very difficult sections. I probably should have started on easy so I could learn the combat, and figure out enemies attacks patterns and such, but I chose to go with normal, and am sticking with it. The problem for me is that I end up with such limited currency, so I havent been able to buy any items outside of consumable items that I will need on these tougher bosses. The dodge technique is so much tougher to master than Batman AC. The time you have to react in Batman seems like an eternity compared to the tougher enemies you face later in the game. I have got to be real close to finishing the first game, and its certainly a game that I will want to replay.

I feel like a have a foundation, and am just starting to really learn to use the combat system correctly. Its one hell of a ride, and if the second one is even better, then I cant wait to finish up the first and move on to the second. I have a feeling I will replay these games quite a few times over the next few years. I am far from a natural, and its kind of like playing Zelda OoT for the first time, all the mechanics that are second nature to me now, were foreign to me back in 1998. Its been a while since I felt so noobish playing a game, but thats how its been with Bayonetta. Hoping to finish up the first game either tonight or tomorrow. No complaints, but its certainly been trial by fire. I have got a truck load of stone if anyone needs some. LOL :)
 
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