Can PS4 keep this up?

Ex-Actarus

Well-Known Member
#51
lol @ anyone speculating on lifetime sales numbers in this thread. This thing should be archived so we can laugh at everyone who said "guaranteed, the PS4 will do over 100 million" when the market comes back and says "consoles are cool, but do we really need them any more? I mean... I 'game' on my phone, don't you know." The market is in such a weird place that it's impossible to predict what's gonna tickle the prostates of the general masses come Q2 2014, let alone a 5-10 year hardware cycle in a market full of 6 month hardware cycles.




You just don't have any understanding how business works then...


The PS1 sold over 100 million units.

The PS2 sold 155 million units.

The PS3 sold around 80 to 85 million units. This console is considered a failure and sold more than ANY Nintendo home consoles except the Wii.


We all know why the PS3 failed initially.

- the high price
- less 3rd party support than previous console ( the 360 had many 3rd party exclusives )
- the console design that make it very complicate for devs to develop games on par with 360.
- poor online features
- Sisaxis controller

The PS4 adressed EVERY single issues the PS3 had initially.

The answwer from the public has been overwelming so far with the PS4 selling out all the time and having the best console start in videogames history.

FACT !

And we should doubt that the PS4 will reach 100 million units when failures as PS3 and the PSP will probably end up close the 100 million units ( 90 to 95 million easily ) ?

Wake up man !
 

Superfakerbros

ECE 2018
Moderator
#52
@Ex-Actarus

The PS3 and PSP aren't considered failures. The PS3 was only INITIALLY considered a failure. That changed after the price drop. While I have no doubt that the PS4 will sell PS-level numbers, it ain't reaching PS2/DS-level numbers or anything, considering that Sony no longer has a considerable portion of 3rd party support exclusive to their home consoles. Also, Tucker has a pretty good point. The PS3 sold like garbage initially and ended up selling rather well in the end, showing that nothing is quite set in stone in the gaming industry
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#53
And if you look at whats exclusive on the PS3 and Xbox 360 its quite a small list.
Which didn't hamper either in pushing big numbers towards their respective mid-to-late period sales.

I'm not sure how to unpack the rest of that; it's too much conjecture. It has yet to be proven how much of a contraction there's been in the console market after ginormous launches for the One and PS4, or if a new media format even matters at all (I'd wager both consoles would sell less if they went digital only right now), or just how strong each platform will be, or if any of that is knowable at all at this point (if you were to judge the PS3's sales after one year on the market, you'd have been wrong in the long run).
The future wont be so kind unfortunately.
Need I remind you what it took for the PS3 to do well in the long term? Having great third party support is fine when your platform has the needed momentum, but consumer interest will fizzle without truly great software. That's the point. Just look at the 3DS. 3DS came out this year with Some serious heavy hitting software but its still pushing less hardware in a far less packed quarter that came out with bloody animal crossing last year. (Still lots of time left in the fiscal year)

The handheld market and the console markets are more similar than you'd think. Only thing heavily dissimilar is development culture
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#54
Sorry man but you're ignoring market realities^



You're ignoring facts.
Bring real facts and not supposition and speculation molded into one.
The PS4 doing what the PS1 did in a different market reality is not as easily claimed as you so believe

I dont see the current situation enabled for the PS4 to reach those heights. It also requires a far more lop sided market. But we have more people now.

This industry is a volatile one.

But hey if Im wrong then I read the situation incorrectly and this market has less in common with a few others than I previously though. Consumer case study time it is then.

Consumer Electronics is having its own sort of issues. Otherwise Sony wouldnt be in the financial whole they have now and people wouldnt be trying to peddle us hardware we can wear. ( Which by the way, that much radiation on your body on a constant basis will screw you up in the long term)


I see so much armchair analysis and half baked speculation on the
internet these days, and I can only shake my head and sigh at how this
might affect people.

No wonder people are always surprised with reality.
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#55
And if you look at whats exclusive on the PS3 and Xbox 360 its quite a small list.
Which didn't hamper either in pushing big numbers towards their respective mid-to-late period sales.

I'm not sure how to unpack the rest of that; it's too much conjecture. It has yet to be proven how much of a contraction there's been in the console market after ginormous launches for the One and PS4, or if a new media format even matters at all (I'd wager both consoles would sell less if they went digital only right now), or just how strong each platform will be, or if any of that is knowable at all at this point (if you were to judge the PS3's sales after one year on the market, you'd have been wrong in the long run).
Thats why you dont judge things based of sales projection, but product direction and the market realities. Which requires keen observation and extensive market research

And also understanding what all the players on the field are cooking up.

You also need to think of exactly how we sell hardware and the boom and bust nature within that frame of business.

People are scared regarding the game industry and its future, thats why they've fought so hard to categorize it into something they can easily understand and relate towards.

Rather than it relying on that one season where it becomes the popular elmo toy on the block, or that time where they made a really grand novel that broke the barriers of time and space for half a decade.

Numbers are simple things, but they are also the direct effect of effects occurring within the market, so obsessing over them will get you no where. Its basic and uncomplicated.


And yes its difficult to make money in games. Always has been, always will be. Publishers need to expound their revenue streams and treat their devs fairly. Relationships between the two is very one sided.

And you dont increase your revenue capacity by restricting the player and siphoning as much cash out of them while the rest of it goes elsewhere. Used games is also not the answer.

NIntendo's one of the few who have managed this situation well. Valve and the rest as well
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#56
@Ex-Actarus

The PS3 and PSP aren't considered failures. The PS3 was only INITIALLY considered a failure. That changed after the price drop. While I have no doubt that the PS4 will sell PS-level numbers, it ain't reaching PS2/DS-level numbers or anything, considering that Sony no longer has a considerable portion of 3rd party support exclusive to their home consoles. Also, Tucker has a pretty good point. The PS3 sold like garbage initially and ended up selling rather well in the end, showing that nothing is quite set in stone in the gaming industry
One thing I've noticed is people's understanding of english and what words mean beyond their connotation wildly differs in many discussions and cause many err's in the process of debate.

Why the PSP sold to begin with and how the software itself sold is why some would consider it a "failure"
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#59

You just don't have any understanding how business works then...

Yeah, I'm not sure that's a statement you really want to try and back up.

Bring real facts
and not supposition and speculation
molded into one.

Sorry, but:
What exactly are you quoting here?

Hmm?


My only concern with the consolses is what will sell them to the masses. They have no unique media features to use a a spring board, much of their library will no doubt consist of many of the same games, and the big japanese games seem to be on Xbox platform as well. The early enthusiast market is choosing the PS4 for reasons. But still in the end they loose out to the PC here and that has its own growing market. You're looking at a fragmented base here, and I feel the Xbox One has a stronger proposition to thes people that'd be looking to get one of those, but its not going to do well without the software and the price point it needs beyond the dedicated fanbase that likes to play what Microsofts platform is known for. Especially when you can get those games elsewhere and the whole communication fiasco's going on at Microsoft. I'm having trouble seeing anything but a severly fragmented market. This is great for Big Third parties and the PC platform. hopefully they get better ports. But you know what it means, they;ll be whining for new hardware even faster. Then they'll whine about piracy and retread through all their other cards they've played and keep on keeping on with screwing their customers over while the idiots consume whatever is placed in front of them

PS3 worked because its more popular worldwide(by virtue of software) and it was pretty much the only console in Japan for those games. PS4 doesnt seem to have the same fortunes with this market.But Sony has some diehard supporters over there in the dev side but even then

Look at the Vita. Look at the 3DS. Look at how much work is needed in the software and to get to GBA-esque numbers and momentum. PSP only ever got close to there with added help from outlying factors. First party games never made sony much revenue on that device either way. Just third party royalties which did wellish on that platform

Third parties keep running back and forth between platforms, the PC, the consoles, PC like consoles, handhelds here and phones/tablets. ( I wouldnt use a tablet for gaming for cooling reasons.)

SmartPhones are just portable PCs(that are in style). That you can make phone calls on. And thus arent that bloody great for gaming beyond playing ridiculous fishing. Same reason you dont want to play a long winded console-esque game on a handheld thats not a 3DS XL your arms distance from you face(Big screen+3D+distance = best view) or on a vita you got close up in your house.

And they're having problems of keeping sustained revenue. Talks of piracy and the like . To the point where they're talking about having licensing fees on phones.

This causes companies to shut down, and for the big third party publishers to grow and exploit their own developers, those they fund and the consumer like Bestheda does. And gamers keep buying broken shit. Eventually the bottom is going to fall out beyond the slow delay of the inevitable.
 

Tucker

“Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”
#60
Oh, you don't see the humour in you talking to other people about using hard facts in this thread?
...I see
Well...
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#61
That is my round about way of saying not to speculate from the ass of the machine.

Trying to communicate ideas with an incomplete canvas, never goes over well. Especially when you take into consideration the ideas formed from that incomplete view
 

Tucker

“Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”
#62
^ Your edited text in post 58 speaks a lot of sense overall. There's a few points I'm not on board with (and am not currently willing to even try to address), but overall I like the gist.
I do have to say, though, that Bethesda is pretty much the only big company that gets away with releasing somewhat broken games in my eyes. Three reasons:[list type=decimal][*]This is not indicative of industry trends - it's just business as usual for Bethesda. They're a creative house, not an engineering one.[*]They do tend to fix most
problems post-release (except for Skyrim on PS3, but that was a lost cause from the start without a complete engine rewrite).Bethesda offers a product that is able to transcend its flaws. Not only is it one of the richest canon's in the industry, but in the case of a title like Oblivion the bugs game it a unique character.[/list type=decimal]
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#63
Well having the community fix your game is all fine and dandy but when you're screwing over smaller studios just so you can purchase them on the cheap along with being a pretty crappy publisher in general... well you're on the shit list.

EA did it this year too. Every game release was a fiasco or a flop. The shining light for them is the fact that their early next gen sales are alright

Now we just wait for the PS4 and Vita to fight for the third party support and for Samsung to buy the Xbox.
 

Tucker

“Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”
#64
Well having the community fix your game is all fine and dandy but when you're screwing over smaller studios just so you can purchase them on the cheap along with being a pretty crappy publisher in general... well you're on the shit list.

It's called patches, genius - not just the community. Also, please try to remember that there is a difference between Bethesda Game Studios, Bethesda Softworks, and ZeniMax Media.

Now we just wait for the PS4 and Vita to fight for the third party support and for Samsung to buy the Xbox
Wait, what the fuck? Am I being punk'd?
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#65
Yeah patches that didnt work as they should have.

Bestheda's been doing this for years. They basically starved human head so they went to Zenimax, Zenimax gave them a hand, and Bestheda tied the other then Zenimax took the other hand and smacked them about.

So yeah I know the difference, and they're all doing shit that cant be seen as anything other than poor form and some shit tier manipulation
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#66
Thats why you dont judge things based of sales projection, but product direction and the market realities. Which requires keen observation and extensive market research

And also understanding what all the players on the field are cooking up.

You also need to think of exactly how we sell hardware and the boom and bust nature within that frame of business.

People are scared regarding the game industry and its future, thats why they've fought so hard to categorize it into something they can easily understand and relate towards.

Rather than it relying on that one season where it becomes the popular elmo toy on the block, or that time where they made a really grand novel that broke the barriers of time and space for half a decade.

Numbers are simple things, but they are also the direct effect of effects occurring within the market, so obsessing over them will get you no where. Its basic and uncomplicated.


And yes its difficult to make money in games. Always has been, always will be. Publishers need to expound their revenue streams and treat their devs fairly. Relationships between the two is very one sided.

And you dont increase your revenue capacity by restricting the player and siphoning as much cash out of them while the rest of it goes elsewhere. Used games is also not the answer.

NIntendo's one of the few who have managed this situation well. Valve and the rest as well
Don't know what to tell you, amigo (most of that isn't even responding to content that I said). Nintendo has not managed their situation well on the console side thus far with Wii U. Sony has with the PS4. Those are reality, and not in dispute. Everything else is conjecture, guesswork, and outright pretending that any of us know what trends will be (which is as unknowable as the fates of the last-gen consoles circa 2007).

The only thing I'd say for sure is that no, Sony can't keep up the pace they put up with their launch, and that their launch (and Microsoft's) show that there is still demand for home consoles right now.
 

Tucker

“Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”
#67
Yeah patches that didnt work as they should have.
What version of the game are you basing this on? Because, as I said before, the PS3 version was never going to work right without an entire engine rewrite.
Of course, that would only have been discovered once most of the assets had been completed.
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#69
Thats why you dont judge things based of sales projection, but product direction and the market realities. Which requires keen observation and extensive market research

And also understanding what all the players on the field are cooking up.

You also need to think of exactly how we sell hardware and the boom and bust nature within that frame of business.

People are scared regarding the game industry and its future, thats why they've fought so hard to categorize it into something they can easily understand and relate towards.

Rather than it relying on that one season where it becomes the popular elmo toy on the block, or that time where they made a really grand novel that broke the barriers of time and space for half a decade.

Numbers are simple things, but they are also the direct effect of effects occurring within the market, so obsessing over them will get you no where. Its basic and uncomplicated.


And yes its difficult to make money in games. Always has been, always will be. Publishers need to expound their revenue streams and treat their devs fairly. Relationships between the two is very one sided.

And you dont increase your revenue capacity by restricting the player and siphoning as much cash out of them while the rest of it goes elsewhere. Used games is also not the answer.

NIntendo's one of the few who have managed this situation well. Valve and the rest as well
Don't know what to tell you, amigo (most of that isn't even responding to content that I said). Nintendo has not managed their situation well on the console side thus far with Wii U. Sony has with the PS4. Those are reality, and not in dispute. Everything else is conjecture, guesswork, and outright pretending that any of us know what trends will be (which is as unknowable as the fates of the last-gen consoles circa 2007).

The only thing I'd say for sure is that no, Sony can't keep up the pace they put up with their launch, and that their launch (and Microsoft's) show that there is still demand for home consoles right now.
Dont get me wrong here, Im just saying what my viewpoint is. Doesnt particularly mesh well without people hopping up and down on my backside because its at odds with convention, but its just the possibilities of the reality we currently face.

Things in this industry change very quickly

As does narrative and opinion. Which is what irks the hell out of me.
 

Tucker

“Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”
#70
The PC version of course
If your PC version is broken, and I stress broken (because bugs are to be expected in something that big), then you should probably mod less. Mine is fine.
 

Tucker

“Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”
#72
My Skyrim has zero unofficial content in it. The only thing unofficial is my tweaks to the renderer via the *.ini.
 

Ex-Actarus

Well-Known Member
#75
@Ex-Actarus

The PS3 and PSP aren't considered failures. The PS3 was only INITIALLY considered a failure. That changed after the price drop. While I have no doubt that the PS4 will sell PS-level numbers, it ain't reaching PS2/DS-level numbers or anything, considering that Sony no longer has a considerable portion of 3rd party support exclusive to their home consoles. Also, Tucker has a pretty good point. The PS3 sold like garbage initially and ended up selling rather well in the end, showing that nothing is quite set in stone in the gaming industry
The PS3 is a faillure.
Period.
When you sell 155 million consoles, you don't expect to sell pretty much half of it the next gen.
The PS3 is a failure as it was the leader and lost that top spot to Nintendo and is fighting for the second spot against the 360.
Should I remind you as well that the Gamecube and the Xbox didn't even sell 25 millions units the previous gen.
NOBODY was expecting the 360 and the Wii to pause a challenge to the almighty PS3.

Sony did an incredible recovery with the PS3.
I give you that.
But the PS3 was a commercial failure.
Sony was in the red for several years. How this could not be a failure ?
The PS3 will not be a profitable console for Sony after all those years of loss.

The PS3 is failure.
 
#76
At the very least, if, in total, you don't make an accounting profit off your product, you failed.

Undoing the profits from their PS2 and whatnot is the other part.
 

Superfakerbros

ECE 2018
Moderator
#77
@Ex-Actarus

The PS3 and PSP aren't considered failures. The PS3 was only INITIALLY considered a failure. That changed after the price drop. While I have no doubt that the PS4 will sell PS-level numbers, it ain't reaching PS2/DS-level numbers or anything, considering that Sony no longer has a considerable portion of 3rd party support exclusive to their home consoles. Also, Tucker has a pretty good point. The PS3 sold like garbage initially and ended up selling rather well in the end, showing that nothing is quite set in stone in the gaming industry
The PS3 is a faillure.
Period.
When you sell 155 million consoles, you don't expect to sell pretty much half of it the next gen.
The PS3 is a failure as it was the leader and lost that top spot to Nintendo and is fighting for the second spot against the 360.
Should I remind you as well that the Gamecube and the Xbox didn't even sell 25 millions units the previous gen.
NOBODY was expecting the 360 and the Wii to pause a challenge to the almighty PS3.
Sony did an incredible recovery with the PS3.
I give you that.
But the PS3 was a commercial failure.
Sony was in the red for several years. How this could not be a failure ?
The PS3 will not be a profitable console for Sony after all those years of loss.
The PS3 is failure.
Profit-wise, the PS3 is a failure. No doubt about that. However, while it may not have sold anywhere near as much as the PS2 and may have lost roughly half of it's marketshare to the 360, it's not a failure, sales-wise. You can't hold on to that market-share forever. Besides, since when did you have to sell as well, or succeed, your predecessor in order to be a success? By that logic, the 3DS is a failure, despite selling extraordinarily well, especially in a market dominated by smartphones and tablets, as it more than likely won't do PS2/DS-level sales numbers and the SNES is a failure for selling less than the NES and letting SEGA get their brand popular with the Genesis
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#78
@Ex-Actarus

The PS3 and PSP aren't considered failures. The PS3 was only INITIALLY considered a failure. That changed after the price drop. While I have no doubt that the PS4 will sell PS-level numbers, it ain't reaching PS2/DS-level numbers or anything, considering that Sony no longer has a considerable portion of 3rd party support exclusive to their home consoles. Also, Tucker has a pretty good point. The PS3 sold like garbage initially and ended up selling rather well in the end, showing that nothing is quite set in stone in the gaming industry
The PS3 is a faillure.
Period.
When you sell 155 million consoles, you don't expect to sell pretty much half of it the next gen.
The PS3 is a failure as it was the leader and lost that top spot to Nintendo and is fighting for the second spot against the 360.
Should I remind you as well that the Gamecube and the Xbox didn't even sell 25 millions units the previous gen.
NOBODY was expecting the 360 and the Wii to pause a challenge to the almighty PS3.
Sony did an incredible recovery with the PS3.
I give you that.
But the PS3 was a commercial failure.
Sony was in the red for several years. How this could not be a failure ?
The PS3 will not be a profitable console for Sony after all those years of loss.
The PS3 is failure.
Profit-wise, the PS3 is a failure. No doubt about that. However, while it may not have sold anywhere near as much as the PS2 and may have lost roughly half of it's marketshare to the 360, it's not a failure, sales-wise. You can't hold on to that market-share forever. Besides, since when did you have to sell as well, or succeed, your predecessor in order to be a success? By that logic, the 3DS is a failure, despite selling extraordinarily well, especially in a market dominated by smartphones and tablets, as it more than likely won't do PS2/DS-level sales numbers and the SNES is a failure for selling less than the NES and letting SEGA get their brand popular with the Genesis
Its not just sales and revenue at the end of the day, the environment in the long term is always also important
 

Ex-Actarus

Well-Known Member
#79
@Ex-Actarus

The PS3 and PSP aren't considered failures. The PS3 was only INITIALLY considered a failure. That changed after the price drop. While I have no doubt that the PS4 will sell PS-level numbers, it ain't reaching PS2/DS-level numbers or anything, considering that Sony no longer has a considerable portion of 3rd party support exclusive to their home consoles. Also, Tucker has a pretty good point. The PS3 sold like garbage initially and ended up selling rather well in the end, showing that nothing is quite set in stone in the gaming industry
The PS3 is a faillure.
Period.
When you sell 155 million consoles, you don't expect to sell pretty much half of it the next gen.
The PS3 is a failure as it was the leader and lost that top spot to Nintendo and is fighting for the second spot against the 360.
Should I remind you as well that the Gamecube and the Xbox didn't even sell 25 millions units the previous gen.
NOBODY was expecting the 360 and the Wii to pause a challenge to the almighty PS3.
Sony did an incredible recovery with the PS3.
I give you that.
But the PS3 was a commercial failure.
Sony was in the red for several years. How this could not be a failure ?
The PS3 will not be a profitable console for Sony after all those years of loss.
The PS3 is failure.
Profit-wise, the PS3 is a failure. No doubt about that. However, while it may not have sold anywhere near as much as the PS2 and may have lost roughly half of it's marketshare to the 360, it's not a failure, sales-wise. You can't hold on to that market-share forever. Besides, since when did you have to sell as well, or succeed, your predecessor in order to be a success? By that logic, the 3DS is a failure, despite selling extraordinarily well, especially in a market dominated by smartphones and tablets, as it more than likely won't do PS2/DS-level sales numbers and the SNES is a failure for selling less than the NES and letting SEGA get their brand popular with the Genesis



Yes the 3DS is a failure in comparison with the DS.

No question about that.

But Nintendo - as Sony with the PS3 - recovered extremely well to turn things around.

The difference is that 3DS is a profitable platform, unlike the PS3.


However, the problem with the 3DS is software sales.

Games are simply not selling on the platform.

If you remove the big games, nothing else is selling, that's very worrying.

Besides western 3rd party devs are not supporting it.
 

Superfakerbros

ECE 2018
Moderator
#80
@Ex-Actarus

The PS3 and PSP aren't considered failures. The PS3 was only INITIALLY considered a failure. That changed after the price drop. While I have no doubt that the PS4 will sell PS-level numbers, it ain't reaching PS2/DS-level numbers or anything, considering that Sony no longer has a considerable portion of 3rd party support exclusive to their home consoles. Also, Tucker has a pretty good point. The PS3 sold like garbage initially and ended up selling rather well in the end, showing that nothing is quite set in stone in the gaming industry
The PS3 is a faillure.
Period.
When you sell 155 million consoles, you don't expect to sell pretty much half of it the next gen.
The PS3 is a failure as it was the leader and lost that top spot to Nintendo and is fighting for the second spot against the 360.
Should I remind you as well that the Gamecube and the Xbox didn't even sell 25 millions units the previous gen.
NOBODY was expecting the 360 and the Wii to pause a challenge to the almighty PS3.
Sony did an incredible recovery with the PS3.
I give you that.
But the PS3 was a commercial failure.
Sony was in the red for several years. How this could not be a failure ?
The PS3 will not be a profitable console for Sony after all those years of loss.
The PS3 is failure.
Profit-wise, the PS3 is a failure. No doubt about that. However, while it may not have sold anywhere near as much as the PS2 and may have lost roughly half of it's marketshare to the 360, it's not a failure, sales-wise. You can't hold on to that market-share forever. Besides, since when did you have to sell as well, or succeed, your predecessor in order to be a success? By that logic, the 3DS is a failure, despite selling extraordinarily well, especially in a market dominated by smartphones and tablets, as it more than likely won't do PS2/DS-level sales numbers and the SNES is a failure for selling less than the NES and letting SEGA get their brand popular with the Genesis
Yes the 3DS is a failure in comparison with the DS.

No question about that.

But Nintendo - as Sony with the PS3 - recovered extremely well to turn things around.

The difference is that 3DS is a profitable platform, unlike the PS3.


However, the problem with the 3DS is software sales.

Games are simply not selling on the platform.

If you remove the big games, nothing else is selling, that's very worrying.

Besides western 3rd party devs are not supporting it.
A failure in comparison to it's predecessor doesn't make it a failure. The 3DS is definitely more financially successful than the PS3 ever was. Well, aside from casual titles and Nintendo's own games, games never sold beyond the millions on Nintendo's handhelds and they've never had western 3rd party support. It's always been up to Nintendo and eastern developers to support their handhelds and that's, so far, always worked out. With their handhelds, games don't need to sell at least 4 or so million to make a profit, hence-why eastern developers still support it
 
#81
Lol at the notion that something has failed if it doesn't outsell it's predecessor.

To define a failure you must define success. Something that is successful is something that accomplishes an aim or purpose or something that attains popularity or profit.

So if these are the basic terms, a failure is something that lacks success.

Ultimately, to deem something as a failure or success, the outcome of the undertaking must be able to be specified as achieving or failing to attain its goals.

Obviously, since these goals as still available to achieve, nothing can be classified as a failure or success. Only failing and succeeding.

There are individual goals that the company sets (I'll have to read over Nintendo's financial reports to see those), but at the basic level, the Nintendo 3DS is succeeding in achieving it's goals. It's popular, profitable, and not contributing to an operating loss for Nintendo. The Wii U on the other hand, currently being unpopular and unprofitable, is failing, as it is contributing to an operating loss for the company.

The PS3 was failing, but is currently succeeding. Overall though, it is failing, as it pretty much undid the profits of the PS2 while costing the PlayStation division operating income.

I'm not sure how the GameCube performed, but if it was overall profitable for the company and didn't cost the company some bank, it was a success.
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#82
@Ex-Actarus

The PS3 and PSP aren't considered failures. The PS3 was only INITIALLY considered a failure. That changed after the price drop. While I have no doubt that the PS4 will sell PS-level numbers, it ain't reaching PS2/DS-level numbers or anything, considering that Sony no longer has a considerable portion of 3rd party support exclusive to their home consoles. Also, Tucker has a pretty good point. The PS3 sold like garbage initially and ended up selling rather well in the end, showing that nothing is quite set in stone in the gaming industry
The PS3 is a faillure.
Period.
When you sell 155 million consoles, you don't expect to sell pretty much half of it the next gen.
The PS3 is a failure as it was the leader and lost that top spot to Nintendo and is fighting for the second spot against the 360.
Should I remind you as well that the Gamecube and the Xbox didn't even sell 25 millions units the previous gen.
NOBODY was expecting the 360 and the Wii to pause a challenge to the almighty PS3.
Sony did an incredible recovery with the PS3.
I give you that.
But the PS3 was a commercial failure.
Sony was in the red for several years. How this could not be a failure ?
The PS3 will not be a profitable console for Sony after all those years of loss.
The PS3 is failure.
Profit-wise, the PS3 is a failure. No doubt about that. However, while it may not have sold anywhere near as much as the PS2 and may have lost roughly half of it's marketshare to the 360, it's not a failure, sales-wise. You can't hold on to that market-share forever. Besides, since when did you have to sell as well, or succeed, your predecessor in order to be a success? By that logic, the 3DS is a failure, despite selling extraordinarily well, especially in a market dominated by smartphones and tablets, as it more than likely won't do PS2/DS-level sales numbers and the SNES is a failure for selling less than the NES and letting SEGA get their brand popular with the Genesis



Yes the 3DS is a failure in comparison with the DS.

No question about that.

But Nintendo - as Sony with the PS3 - recovered extremely well to turn things around.

The difference is that 3DS is a profitable platform, unlike the PS3.


However, the problem with the 3DS is software sales.

Games are simply not selling on the platform.

If you remove the big games, nothing else is selling, that's very worrying.

Besides western 3rd party devs are not supporting it.
.... No the thing is different types of software is selling. The DS had a shitload of software. Moreso than the 3DS to begin with. Third parties went to town on that machine. Nintendo also had the backing of brain age and the like. Random Nintendo games now are just pulling in big numbers and they're growing their franchises. New types of software like the streetpass games and the darumeshi kind are also doing really well. Nintendo just needs to keep pushing their system along and play the long game.

I guarantee you that if Nintendo made a really frakking good golden sun game it'd outsell the DS one on the 3DS.
The 3DS is about less quantity than the DS, but still high in quality and quantity.

The fact that this machine has miiverse and smash bros only makes it better, In the long term the ideal for the WiiU is long term support with long term support for the 3DS as well. They should help feed off one another

It should miirror the Super Nintendo and the Super Gameboy. Only difference is perception right now with the WiiU and some other niggling issues.

Remeber the WiiU's been suffering not only from its problems but the Wii's issue from 2011 and the confusion with the main audience Nintendo's trying to pull on it in the short term.( Probably for Ubisoft and Activision. As you can see whats going on with Skylanders and Just Dance)

Im not even worried about the software lineup issues for now. Just stuff that really push systems and whats new that Nintendo could do and if they are doing it. They make it sound like they are but it remains to be seen.
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#83
Lol at the notion that something has failed if it doesn't outsell it's predecessor.

To define a failure you must define success. Something that is successful is something that accomplishes an aim or purpose or something that attains popularity or profit.

So if these are the basic terms, a failure is something that lacks success.

Ultimately, to deem something as a failure or success, the outcome of the undertaking must be able to be specified as achieving or failing to attain its goals.

Obviously, since these goals as still available to achieve, nothing can be classified as a failure or success. Only failing and succeeding.

There are individual goals that the company sets (I'll have to read over Nintendo's financial reports to see those), but at the basic level, the Nintendo 3DS is succeeding in achieving it's goals. It's popular, profitable, and not contributing to an operating loss for Nintendo. The Wii U on the other hand, currently being unpopular and unprofitable, is failing, as it is contributing to an operating loss for the company.

The PS3 was failing, but is currently succeeding. Overall though, it is failing, as it pretty much undid the profits of the PS2 while costing the PlayStation division operating income.

I'm not sure how the GameCube performed, but if it was overall profitable for the company and didn't cost the company some bank, it was a success.
So you say Gamecube is a success but it did not succeed.
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#85
Nintendo was at a loss with the gamecube so they used it to hold them over was how it went right? Lol.

That's why it was a success but did not succeed no?

But it got its revenge with the Wii.

Then nintendo started stripping the Wii down and then the Wii started to sell less and less.

But lol look at it now. Still placing 4th on the hardware list next to Cod on PS3/Xbox360 and Puzzles and dragons for the last week or so worldwide

If by some sheer force of virtue NIntendo's able to take Japan by storm on the Portable/HomeConsole front and they can really start pushing their system. Its in their best interest to support it for a long while until the technology is ready for the next level. Unless a market disruptor rears its face, that is how they should do it. I dont see what new hardware will do. Infact it'd probably just be an updated WiIU. I doubt Nintendo would ever use PC architecture do to their dev teams being entirely unfamiliar with it and them having to learn to recode entirely for that manner to get the most out of the system.
 

Tucker

“Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”
#86
I disagree that the PS3 is a failure because it didn't outsell the PS2. I do, however, agree that the PS3 is a failure because Sony went from outselling the other three consoles combined by almost three times to being in a two-horse race for second place behind Nintendo. It looks even uglier if you give Sony the same calculus in Gen.7 used for Gen.6 - against three consoles, the PS2 outsold by almost three times, but against two consoles, the PS3 was outsold by well over two times. That's major ground-loss.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#87
Market share can be fickle, guys. Judging the PS3 as a failure because it didn't capture the same slice of the market as the PS2 is a bit myopic. Maintaining PS2-levels of dominance would've required a lower price (nope), a cheap way to play in-demand new media (nope), exclusivity of a certain record-breaking sandbox game (nope), and the competition making the same mistakes they had before (nope). The PS3 launched into a very different reality with a different set of circumstances.

Of course, you can judge the bottom line. And on that...
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/08/19/the-sony-reciprocal-ps3-losses-surpass-ps2-profits/

...it's hard to say that the PS3 was a smashing success at all. The success of the XB brand is a bit more mixed there, too.
 

Ex-Actarus

Well-Known Member
#88
As far as the PS3 goes.
We're not talking about a drop from 60 million to 45 million as it was the case for the SNES versus the NES.
We're talking about selling HALF the amount of consoles as the PS2 did.
This a failure.

Besides Sony lost vast amount of money, that put the company at risk.
How this can't be considered a faillure.

And finally, Sony was this undisputed number 1 for two consecutive gens.
Last gen Sony is well behind Nintendo and fighting for the 2nd place.
They failed to remain number 1, so that's a failure.
Period.
 

Tucker

“Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”
#90
Yeah, Sony's got that whole liquidity issue to worry about over the next couple of years.
 

Ex-Actarus

Well-Known Member
#91
Sony is still in trouble on the financial front.

That's funny how videogames media are claiming Nintendo will go Sega's route when sony is more likely to do it in the first place...

This is story running on GAF : http://gaminrealm.com/2013/12/30/sony-79-chance-bankrupt-2-years/
 
#92
I think that Sony can keep up the pace. I think Sony's main competitor is Microsoft in that they make games for a similar audience. Sony has a bigger stable of exclusives than Microsoft so if they can hold on until Infamous comes out and they show off new games like the new Uncharted game, they will be in good shape.
 

Tucker

“Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”
#93
Oh god... If they actually release an Uncharted 4 I'm done with Naughty Dog. Two generations in a row they created a new IP, both of which I adore. Gen.7 got this playing-it-safe movie in a game frock masquerading as the future of gaming, when really it's the future of B cinema and that's what they want to continue? Fuck off and buy Crash Bandicoot back from WB if you're going to cross generational lines.
 

Wolven

The Wolf of TNE Street
#95
About the console war.... you see, Nintendo might not have the power at the moment to win over Europe/NA but they can and probably will conquer Japan. Now, I am not talking about the sold out PS4 preorders or any of that, but the fact that Sony is targeting the western market more than the Japanese market imo. They don't have the SMTs, MHs, DQs or any other popular Japanese franchise. Nintendo on the other hand is releasing a lot of titles that are sure to tide the Japanese market, such as X, SMTxFE, Hyrule Warriors, DQ, and any upcoming Monster Hunter. Plus there is Bayonetta 2, Smash Bros and Mario Kart 8 which are bound to move some units both in Japan and NA/EU. Very slowly, I think, Nintendo is dishing out their cards. Knowing how stubborn they are sometimes, I doubt they will win back the western market, but at least they will conquer Japan I think.
 

Tucker

“Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”
#96
So apparently. People are reselling PS4's already.

And killzone and Ryse.

No one bought Knack.

Some weird shit man
The weird thing is that people even bought Killzone and Ryse. Bitches way too graphics obsessed, 'cause we knew those games were going to be shit.
 

Wolven

The Wolf of TNE Street
#97
Hmm last thing, I have a couple of friends who bought a PS4, and they don't even use it or touch it. One of them is always playing GTA Online on their PS3, and the other one is just replaying Blacklight. The next big PS4 release is in March, kind of how the first big Wii U release last year was in March, (MHU3 and LC:U). The one advantage that Sony has here is a well-engineered console with a lot of promise. That's about it I think, because I have no idea what the next big game is after Infamous. Watch Dogs? Idk, it just seems like PS4 is in for a software drought.
 

Wolven

The Wolf of TNE Street
#99
I agree. With generic titles receiving rave and amazing sales (looking at most shooter/action games) and creative titles getting average scores and low sales (The Wonderful 101, Pikmin 3 to a lesser extent)
 

Ex-Actarus

Well-Known Member
About the console war.... you see, Nintendo might not have the power at the moment to win over Europe/NA but they can and probably will conquer Japan. Now, I am not talking about the sold out PS4 preorders or any of that, but the fact that Sony is targeting the western market more than the Japanese market imo. They don't have the SMTs, MHs, DQs or any other popular Japanese franchise. Nintendo on the other hand is releasing a lot of titles that are sure to tide the Japanese market, such as X, SMTxFE, Hyrule Warriors, DQ, and any upcoming Monster Hunter. Plus there is Bayonetta 2, Smash Bros and Mario Kart 8 which are bound to move some units both in Japan and NA/EU. Very slowly, I think, Nintendo is dishing out their cards. Knowing how stubborn they are sometimes, I doubt they will win back the western market, but at least they will conquer Japan I think.



In order to secure Japan they need 3rd party support.

Final Fantasy, Tales, Metal Gear, Pro Evolution Soccer, Gundam, etc. All that are key franchises to win the home console war.

Let's not forget the Wii had some Tales and Final Fantasy games.
 
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