Discussion of the TOS

#51
Yeah, interesting point, CyanPrime. Let me just say this, first off:

If anyone starts questioning yours or anyone else's right to a relationship because they aren't comfortable with your sexuality for whatever reason, I'm not gonna tolerate that. Everyone is welcome here, and we should be able to discuss our respective relations to other people --amongst other things-- on equal terms. I don't want you to hold back on discussing personal matters simply because you fear others will not like it. Writing in detail about sexual encounters is a different matter, obviously, but that should also be handled in such a way that we are all treated with equal amounts of respect. I want to think a bit more about this whole thing before I say anything else on the matter, though.
 

Aki

Well-Known Member
#52
I think it's a pretty moot point considering that marijuana is legal in plenty of places around the world. Not to mention, it's not addictive and there's very little evidence to suggest that it's harmful. There have been no deaths reported due to marijuana use. As a matter of fact, where I live, it's no different than smoking a cigarette. Being homosexual and smoking pot are two very different things. Also, having sex, whether it's gay or not is a lot more graphic than smoking a joint or ripping a bong.

The point is that me or anyone else talking about a soft core drug whether it's legal or not in your area is not directly influencing anyone to start experimenting with it. I'm not telling people to go out and try it, I'm not okaying it, I'm not forcing my opinion upon others. Then there's also the fact that the average pot smoker starts smoking at 14, meaning that, those so called kids who may visit this CT, will more than likely already have been exposed to it. I don't see any harm being done.
 
#53
I'm not taking sides in this debate -- yet -- but I will point out a few inconsistencies, Aki.

Firstly, talking about anything can influence others. The more people talk about certain things, especially in a positive way, the higher the likelihood of the things in question becoming accepted in the eyes of those who listen. People are also most "vulnerable" to this phenomenon when young, when they are still trying to form an image of what the world is like. While you may not be forcing your opinion upon anyone, there is still a chance of you (and us, of course) influencing others. Please note that I don't say this effect is good or bad, merely that it exists.

Secondly, while it may or may not be true that the average pot smoker starts at 14 years old, that does not equate to the average 14 year old having tried or even having been exposed to pot. That's simply a faulty assumption.
 
#54
I'm not taking sides either. Maybe no harm is being done. Would there be any harm if I was to tell you a story of my recent trip to the toilet? I'm sure small children and even infants have been exposed to that kind of stuff. Shall we talk about the brownies and lemonade or what?
Ahhh... the aroma... it's like a chicken coop and a slaughter house in one.
 

Aki

Well-Known Member
#55
"hjort" wrote: I'm not taking sides in this debate -- yet -- but I will point out a few inconsistencies, Aki.

Firstly, talking about anything can influence others. The more people talk about certain things, especially in a positive way, the higher the likelihood of the things in question becoming accepted in the eyes of those who listen. People are also most "vulnerable" to this phenomenon when young, when they are still trying to form an image of what the world is like. While you may not be forcing your opinion upon anyone, there is still a chance of you (and us, of course) influencing others. Please note that I don't say this effect is good or bad, merely that it exists.That's a fair point, however, you should know that smoking is a personal decision. So, whether or not someone starts smoking is ultimately their decision to make. Like I've said, pot isn't illegal everywhere and there are plenty of places around the world including the US where it's legal for both recreational and medicinal use. Second, smoking pot isn't illegal, it's having possession of it that's illegal.

"hjort" wrote:
Secondly, while it may or may not be true that the average pot smoker starts at 14 years old, that does not equate to the average 14 year old having tried or even having been exposed to pot. That's simply a faulty assumption.
Another fair point, however, I don't think it's fair for you to comment about a country that you don't live in. Trust me, nearly every 14 year old in the US knows someone who smokes pot either out of their family or friends and knows how to get access to it. On a national survey ~50% of the people polled admitted to smoking pot, now factor that into how many weren't polled and how many wouldn't admit to it. Pot is in abundance here, anyone can get it, it's not hard. Me talking about it will not encourage someone to look for it. This is something that you already have your mind made up about.

Then there's also the fact that we've had certain users talk about being a transvestite, getting a sex change, talking about the problems of having a chemical inbalance or whatever it was. If that's allowed then I'm fairly certain that talking of smoking pot should be allowed.

I stand by my opinion of that the discussion of smoking pot should be allowed for the aforementioned reasons. Also, we know damn well that there are no kids who post here. He said this for a reason and there's an underlying reason and kids coming here isn't it. At the rate that things are going, this board is quickly going to turn into internet communism.
 

Cyan

Well-Known Member
#56
"hjort" wrote: Yeah, interesting point, CyanPrime. Let me just say this, first off:

If anyone starts questioning yours or anyone else's right to a relationship because they aren't comfortable with your sexuality for whatever reason, I'm not gonna tolerate that. Everyone is welcome here, and we should be able to discuss our respective relations to other people --amongst other things-- on equal terms. I don't want you to hold back on discussing personal matters simply because you fear others will not like it. Writing in detail about sexual encounters is a different matter, obviously, but that should also be handled in such a way that we are all treated with equal amounts of respect. I want to think a bit more about this whole thing before I say anything else on the matter, though.
Oh, wow. Thank you very much!


There have been no deaths reported due to marijuana use.
It's true it doesn't lead to overdosing; However, it can easily lead to bad decisions about now just your own life, but others as well. There's a reason you can't drive while on marijuana, yet while high people often times try to drive and get things done.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/hea ... 53031202/1

Then there's also the fact that the average pot smoker starts smoking at 14, meaning that, those so called kids who may visit this CT, will more than likely already have been exposed to it. I don't see any harm being done.
Still, getting validated by fellow peers is enabling them to continue doing what their doing without question, not only that, but people could view the Nintendo Enthusiast forums as promoting bad behavior because they are allowing this.

Do keep in mind I'm not trying to attack you, and I hope I'm not offending you.

My point is since Nintendo is a topic aimed for all ages the discussions here should be for that same target demographic.
 

Aki

Well-Known Member
#57
"CyanPrime" wrote: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/story/health/story/2012-02-09/Marijuana-users-twice-as-likely-to-cause-car-crash/53031202/1
This is a survey from Scotland where only 537 people were polled, I don't think that represents even the slightest fraction of pot smokers in the world. Not to mention, it was from the ages of 17-39, my guess being that most of the people polled were towards the 17 end. It still proves nothing. Maybe they're just shitty drivers to begin with?

Finally, unless you've tried it, don't comment on it. You have no experience in the field, therefore, whatever opinions you may have about it are invalid.
 

Aki

Well-Known Member
#59
"FriedShoes" wrote: this is going to go into a whole other thing, but while the topic is still fresh...
I have trouble believing that pot isn't addictive. I always hear that line from people that smoke it every day and have not given it up, like ever. I found it especially funny in high school, where I hung out with one or two potheads who were caught by their parents and had to stop so that they could show up negative in drug tests. They did not find it easy to stop using for a week or so.
You're taking a sample size of your two friends, meanwhile, I could tell you a million different stories about people that I've known who have stopped smoking.
 

Cyan

Well-Known Member
#60
Hey, I think this discussion needs it's own topic in The Community Lobby board. I'm sorry I said something here, I didn't think it'd be this big of a deal. Maybe we can get a mod or admin to move this posts into it for us?
 
#61
Once again, Aki, I am merely pointing out the inconsitencies in what you wrote, in your reasoning, that is all.

However, I will absolutely not simply trust what you say, because that would not be a very clever thing to do. If you could provide me with a source to this survey, and it turns out to have been performed scientifically, by unbiased and credible sources, I would take it into consideration, but as it stands right now, the claims are unsubstantiated. No need to link me specifically to the survey, though, because statistics of that type is not interesting in the context of this discussion.

I will add this to the list of inconsistencies: Any number of people not polled does not speak in favour of either side of the argument, and can't be taken into account. That is not how statistics work. If that survey was to accurately reflect society --and as such be a "good" survey -- then the results should not differ much even if you would drastically increase the number of participants.

Furthermore, nationality does not inherently affect knowledge of any given subject. While I did not make a comment about the nation in which you live (I pointed out the logical fallacy in your statement, which is another matter entirely), I would absolutely comment on anything happening anywhere if I had the knowledge to back up my claims and felt a need to do so. EDIT: This is actually kind of hilarious now, since you are talking about Scotland.

I respect your opinion and your stance, and I'm not debating the drug issue here, I'm just pointing out some holes in your logic, with the best interest of this discussion in mind.

EDIT: If anyone wants to create the discussion thread on the Community Board, please go ahead and I will move any messages that you want, if needed.
 
#62
"FriedShoes" wrote: this is going to go into a whole other thing, but while the topic is still fresh...
I have trouble believing that pot isn't addictive. I always hear that line from people that smoke it every day and have not given it up, like ever. I found it especially funny in high school, where I hung out with one or two potheads who were caught by their parents and had to stop so that they could show up negative in drug tests. They did not find it easy to stop using for a week or so.
Correct. Fact: THC in marijuana is addictive. Fact: the amount of THC in US sold marijuana skyrocketed in the past 30 years due to humans aggressively breeding the plants. Fact: my own "aroma" often is just as addicting.
 

Aki

Well-Known Member
#64
There's nothing left to say. This discussion was over when I mentioned that kids are more exposed to alcoholic beverage ads on TV and on the net than they are to me talking about smoking pot. There is no argument for pot being worse than alcohol because that's simply not true. Not to mention, there are no kids who post here. Certain people are simply uncomfortable with smoking pot, I get it. So, let's just get on with our days. I'm going to continue posting about how I take gnarly surfer bro rips out of my bong and you can continue doing whatever it is that you're doing.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#65
To Cyan: I forgot to say what Hjort said above, but I agree with him completely. We don't want you to feel like you have to hold back your personality as to not offend us. We try to be as accepting of people's personal life choices as we can, so don't think you're going to get judged here for whatever you want to share.
 

Cyan

Well-Known Member
#66
"juegosmajicos" wrote: To Cyan: I forgot to say what Hjort said above, but I agree with him completely. We don't want you to feel like you have to hold back your personality as to not offend us. We try to be as accepting of people's personal life choices as we can, so don't think you're going to get judged here for whatever you want to share.
Thank you very much as well
!
 
#67
"Aki64" wrote: Not to mention, there are no kids who post here.
In general, fact is most forums are read in far greater numbers than they are posted in. As a news site, most everything here has to have at least a certain tone, and certain subjects are just too distracting from the tone and purpose of the site. At the very least this stuff should be kept in the Community Lobby if you guys want to continue with this subject.
 
#68
Perhaps a better alternative to having mods approve of new users would be an e-mail verification system- an e-mail is sent to the user that just registered and they have to click an activation link. That, and maybe there could be a 24 hour waiting period before they can start posting.
 

DarkKevit

That old bloke from Crete...
#69
"FriedShoes" wrote: this is going to go into a whole other thing, but while the topic is still fresh...
I have trouble believing that pot isn't addictive. I always hear that line from people that smoke it every day and have not given it up, like ever. I found it especially funny in high school, where I hung out with one or two potheads who were caught by their parents and had to stop so that they could show up negative in drug tests. They did not find it easy to stop using for a week or so.
Having been a pot smoker for more years than most of you have probably been alive, I'll chuck in my 2c.

1st it is a scientifically proven fact that marijuana in itself is NOT physically addictive. People can however become mentally dependent on it. Most of the discomfort found in giving up pot comes from the withdrawal symptoms from the tobacco used to roll with. I used to find it difficult to go without a spliff, until I stopped smoking cigs. Once I was over the tobacco addiction. I lost the need to smoke pot, although I still do occasionally, using a pipe.

Having said that, although this is a community thread, I am not overly comfortable with the idea of open discussions on drug taking, I surely have no axe to grind, but you never know who may be reading the thread, and what their personal circumstances are, and if it is upsetting people. I don't feel it is right that people with strong anti drug viewpoints should feel uncomfortable here, on what is, after all, a games forum.

At the end of the day though, as always, I will trust the mods to decide what is and isn't acceptable.
 

Majorbuddah

My real name is Dolemite
#70
"Menashe" wrote: I just changed the forum rules in a pretty big way. From now on, you can't gain entrance to the boards unless you get activation from an admin.
you're doing it wrong. any random visitor who decides he/she wants to start posting here or add a comment to a thread will be turned off by this in a big way. imagine you're a lurker and you want to comment on a post. you take the time to create an account, and when you're finally done... wait 24-48 hours for mod approval. even if they are approved after only 20 minutes, they will never come back. you may get IGN transplants to wait it out, but that's about it. it's a huge mistake if you want to grow these forums.

the correct way to handle this is to enact a 5-10 minute waiting period between posting new topics. any spammer will only be able to disrupt the board so much before a mod spots it and gets busy banning/deleting posts.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#71
"Majorbuddah" wrote:
"Menashe" wrote:
I just changed the forum rules in a pretty big way. From now on, you can't gain entrance to the boards unless you get activation from an admin.
you're doing it wrong. any random visitor who decides he/she wants to start posting here or add a comment to a thread will be turned off by this in a big way. imagine you're a lurker and you want to comment on a post. you take the time to create an account, and when you're finally done... wait 24-48 hours for mod approval. even if they are approved after only 20 minutes, they will never come back. you may get IGN transplants to wait it out, but that's about it. it's a huge mistake if you want to grow these forums.

the correct way to handle this is to enact a 5-10 minute waiting period between posting new topics. any spammer will only be able to disrupt the board so much before a mod spots it and gets busy banning/deleting posts.
We dont live in such wonderful times. And what community we have now we love, so to protect the community we care about not being disrupted like it has been as of recent days this measure Menashe feels in necessary. Us as a community stand behind this decision and feel that it is the correct course of action. If you have a problem with the way things are done please feel free to voice you advice thru PM, or one of the threads at the top of the page
 

Majorbuddah

My real name is Dolemite
#72
"mattavelle1" wrote:
"Majorbuddah" wrote:
"Menashe" wrote:
I just changed the forum rules in a pretty big way. From now on, you can't gain entrance to the boards unless you get activation from an admin.
you're doing it wrong. any random visitor who decides he/she wants to start posting here or add a comment to a thread will be turned off by this in a big way. imagine you're a lurker and you want to comment on a post. you take the time to create an account, and when you're finally done... wait 24-48 hours for mod approval. even if they are approved after only 20 minutes, they will never come back. you may get IGN transplants to wait it out, but that's about it. it's a huge mistake if you want to grow these forums.

the correct way to handle this is to enact a 5-10 minute waiting period between posting new topics. any spammer will only be able to disrupt the board so much before a mod spots it and gets busy banning/deleting posts.
We dont live in such wonderful times. And what community we have now we love, so to protect the community we care about not being disrupted like it has been as of recent days this measure Menashe feels in necessary. Us as a community stand behind this decision and feel that it is the correct course of action. If you have a problem with the way things are done please feel free to voice you advice thru PM, or one of the threads at the top of the page
i was replying to a post that was made ITT. i don't see you telling menashe his post belonged in a different thread :/

it's like every other post i make is followed by either the threat of being banned or told that it should be private. this forum is getting quite odd. whatever.
 

DarkKevit

That old bloke from Crete...
#73
"mattavelle1" wrote:
"Majorbuddah" wrote:
"Menashe" wrote:
I just changed the forum rules in a pretty big way. From now on, you can't gain entrance to the boards unless you get activation from an admin.
you're doing it wrong. any random visitor who decides he/she wants to start posting here or add a comment to a thread will be turned off by this in a big way. imagine you're a lurker and you want to comment on a post. you take the time to create an account, and when you're finally done... wait 24-48 hours for mod approval. even if they are approved after only 20 minutes, they will never come back. you may get IGN transplants to wait it out, but that's about it. it's a huge mistake if you want to grow these forums.

the correct way to handle this is to enact a 5-10 minute waiting period between posting new topics. any spammer will only be able to disrupt the board so much before a mod spots it and gets busy banning/deleting posts.
We dont live in such wonderful times. And what community we have now we love, so to protect the community we care about not being disrupted like it has been as of recent days this measure Menashe feels in necessary. Us as a community stand behind this decision and feel that it is the correct course of action. If you have a problem with the way things are done please feel free to voice you advice thru PM, or one of the threads at the top of the page
While I can see MB's point, I feel overall that I am with Menashe on this one.

Its true that having to have a verification process and a waiting period to post is not ideal, IMO it is far preferable than the childish crap we have witnessed over the last couple of days. Any gamer who seriously wishes to post here will apply and wait for the process to complete. If the individual concerned is not willing to bother with this, then do we really need such a person here anyway?

For me prioritising the budding community of fine posters we are seeing here is the way to go and far outweighs making it easy for any drive by posters and spammers to join on a whim. Verification has certainly not adversely affected the number of posters on GAF, for instance.

Edit to address MB's post above mine!!
MB, surely you are exaggerating the position as regards threats of banning? I read most of the posts, and TBH many more of the posters here have been impressed with your posting style here than not, including myself. As to using the PM instead of posts, this is usually suggested if you have an issue with the moderation, as a public forum is not the place to discuss such issues.

I have certainly had quite heated differences of opinion with many posts here, and have never been threatened with a ban or told to go to PM. If this is happening to you a lot, and it is involving an individual mod, then you are well within your rights to be peeved, and should surely PM Matt, Menashe or any mod you are comfortable with, and sorting it out. If you feel that you cannot trust ANY of the mods here to deal with your issue fairly, then I really don't know what to suggest. I would find this very hard to believe though.
 

Majorbuddah

My real name is Dolemite
#74
"DarkKevit" wrote: Edit to address MB's post above mine!!
MB, surely you are exaggerating the position as regards threats of banning? I read most of the posts, and TBH many more of the posters here have been impressed with your posting style here than not, including myself. As to using the PM instead of posts, this is usually suggested if you have an issue with the moderation, as a public forum is not the place to discuss such issues.

I have certainly had quite heated differences of opinion with many posts here, and have never been threatened with a ban or told to go to PM. If this is happening to you a lot, and it is involving an individual mod, then you are well within your rights to be peeved, and should surely PM Matt, Menashe or any mod you are comfortable with, and sorting it out. If you feel that you cannot trust ANY of the mods here to deal with your issue fairly, then I really don't know what to suggest. I would find this very hard to believe though.
thanks, i appreciate the support. i think you've been a pretty great poster too. it's usually either matt or another user that i'm not allowed to mention (under threat of ban, lmao) that are badgering me with this crap. it's like once a week. it doesn't bother me too much, as my world wouldn't come crashing down without nintendo enthusiast, but it's kind of annoying.

if i thought all the mods were unfair, or i didn't enjoy posting here anymore, i would just leave. the ones who seem most eager to reprimand me have said pretty much from day one that they don't like me. i couldn't care less though - haters gonna hate. there are a few posters here that i genuinely enjoy exchanging ideas with though, so it's worth putting up with small annoyances to stick around. i chalk it up to inexperienced mods, and a fairly young (young site, not young posters) community. no biggie.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#75
I do not have to tell Menashe anything, he is the boss, be started this and we support his. I did not send a warning, I did not threaten, I did just ask kindly for a PM...not a hard request I dont think.

We are just taking these measures MB to make sure members such as yourself have the best community to post in
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#76
"Majorbuddah" wrote:
"DarkKevit" wrote:
Edit to address MB's post above mine!!
MB, surely you are exaggerating the position as regards threats of banning? I read most of the posts, and TBH many more of the posters here have been impressed with your posting style here than not, including myself. As to using the PM instead of posts, this is usually suggested if you have an issue with the moderation, as a public forum is not the place to discuss such issues.

I have certainly had quite heated differences of opinion with many posts here, and have never been threatened with a ban or told to go to PM. If this is happening to you a lot, and it is involving an individual mod, then you are well within your rights to be peeved, and should surely PM Matt, Menashe or any mod you are comfortable with, and sorting it out. If you feel that you cannot trust ANY of the mods here to deal with your issue fairly, then I really don't know what to suggest. I would find this very hard to believe though.
thanks, i appreciate the support. i think you've been a pretty great poster too. it's usually either matt or another user that i'm not allowed to mention (under threat of ban, lmao) that are badgering me with this crap. it's like once a week. it doesn't bother me too much, as my world wouldn't come crashing down without nintendo enthusiast, but it's kind of annoying.

if i thought all the mods were unfair, or i didn't enjoy posting here anymore, i would just leave. the ones who seem most eager to reprimand me have said pretty much from day one that they don't like me. i couldn't care less though - haters gonna hate. there are a few posters here that i genuinely enjoy exchanging ideas with though, so it's worth putting up with small annoyances to stick around. i chalk it up to inexperienced mods, and a fairly young (young site, not young posters) community. no biggie.
Dark is correct in saying "surely you exaggerate". I should not have to defend myself against slander but I will and the community knows me and will back me up. I just checked my outgoing PM inbox and I have PMed you exactly one time. Now was than PM a warning yes it was because you called Aces a dick. Also what you fail to tell the community is all the details of the PM in that Aces (a mod) and Syndicat3 a poster got the exact same warning.

I have actually if you will look thru my post here been outspoken of your change. I will post truth and everyone here knows that. I don't not like being made out to look like a person I am not, and I would thank you 1000x over if when speaking of me you posted truth aswell.
 

BobSilencieux

Well-Known Member
#77
So i may be a little late to this discussion, but here's my $.02 if anybody cares to listen...

I don't think that TNE is a suitable place to discuss your illegal drug habits. I personally wouldn't want to talk about my illegal drug habits in any public forum on the internet, but if you feel like you absolutely must, then there are sure to be places where it is suitable to do so. Like, a website that is dedicated to Cannabis for example. But this is a website that is dedicated to a child- and family-friendly company. The "Disney of videogames." The stuff we are writing here is probably being read by a lot of impressionable children, and since i am a parent, i feel like i have some responsibility towards these kids. I don't want them to be finding out about drug use (and possibly even trying it) through us.
 

Aki

Well-Known Member
#78
I feel as if you guys just don't like it, that kid excuse is overused. If anything, the kids read the articles on the front page and not random pages of the Community Thread. I already got the ok to talk about it from juegos, so I'd appreciate it if you guys would just stop stating your opinions, as they are not needed.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#79
Now come on, I didn't give my "ok" to talk about nothing here. I talked to Mattavelle about it, and I'm always open to different options in how to handle this. Now the first reacion me and Matt had to it was "it's not a very important issue. Some want it to stop, others want it to continue, they will probably come to an implicit agreement of their own".

Coming in with our own rules one way or the other always looks a bit off unless the issue becomes fairly important, so I think I'll still wait and see whether you can both agree to not talk about it so much, and not care so much about it when others talk about it.
If not, then there's always the possibility of giving it its own talk space, not specifically for drugs and sex, but any and all "mature" topics.
 

Aki

Well-Known Member
#80
"juegosmajicos" wrote: Now come on, I didn't give my "ok" to talk about nothing here. I talked to Mattavelle about it, and I'm always open to different options in how to handle this. Now the first reacion me and Matt had to it was "it's not a very important issue. Some want it to stop, others want it to continue, they will probably come to an implicit agreement of their own".

Coming in with our own rules one way or the other always looks a bit off unless the issue becomes fairly important, so I think I'll still wait and see whether you can both agree to not talk about it so much, and not care so much about it when others talk about it.
If not, then there's always the possibility of giving it its own talk space, not specifically for drugs and sex, but any and all "mature" topics.You said yesterday that it was ok and that they should leave me alone. My issue is this. First, like I've said many times, I doubt kids read random pages of the CT. Second, I say that I'm taking gnarly bong rips or that I'm toking, I don't expect a kid to know what either of those two mean. I never explicitly say that I'm smoking marijuana. This is a small issue being blown out of proportion by a few unsatisfied members.

"FriedShoes" wrote:
It has nothing to do with that, I've read plenty of negative reviews about the the game from plenty different people. I've played the game five times over, I have my own opinions on the game and recognize its faults as well. I've written about them in many posts and even wrote a blog post about what I'd like to see improved. (I do think the "repetitive" aspect of this game could be argued, though.)

Rather, I'm interested in the thoughts of people I respect, be those negative or positive. I knew juegos was going to review the game (seems to have changed) and I was merely making a jab at him while at the same truly interested in what he thought.
I actually liked and enjoyed the game even though it was severely flawed.
 
#81
"Aki64" wrote:
"juegosmajicos" wrote:Now come on, I didn't give my "ok" to talk about nothing here. I talked to Mattavelle about it, and I'm always open to different options in how to handle this. Now the first reacion me and Matt had to it was "it's not a very important issue. Some want it to stop, others want it to continue, they will probably come to an implicit agreement of their own".

Coming in with our own rules one way or the other always looks a bit off unless the issue becomes fairly important, so I think I'll still wait and see whether you can both agree to not talk about it so much, and not care so much about it when others talk about it.
If not, then there's always the possibility of giving it its own talk space, not specifically for drugs and sex, but any and all "mature" topics.You said yesterday that it was ok and that they should leave me alone. My issue is this. First, like I've said many times, I doubt kids read random pages of the CT. Second, I say that I'm taking gnarly bong rips or that I'm toking, I don't expect a kid to know what either of those two mean. I never explicitly say that I'm smoking marijuana. This is a small issue being blown out of proportion by a few unsatisfied members.

"FriedShoes" wrote:
It has nothing to do with that, I've read plenty of negative reviews about the the game from plenty different people. I've played the game five times over, I have my own opinions on the game and recognize its faults as well. I've written about them in many posts and even wrote a blog post about what I'd like to see improved. (I do think the "repetitive" aspect of this game could be argued, though.)

Rather, I'm interested in the thoughts of people I respect, be those negative or positive. I knew juegos was going to review the game (seems to have changed) and I was merely making a jab at him while at the same truly interested in what he thought.
I actually liked and enjoyed the game even though it was severely flawed.
I'll preface this by saying that I agree with your assertion that we should be free to talk about anything that's important in our lives. However, a lot of your arguments seem to be based on broad, sweeping, and unverifiable claims and thus makes your overall argument appear to be rather weak. The persecutionist tone doesn't really help either.
 

Aki

Well-Known Member
#82
@Menashe: Lol, is that really how they work? Also, I don't see how me posting that I'm taking a gnarly bong rip affects the experience of other posters. I'm not going into detail about it, I'm just stating a quick line of what I'm doing.
 

Menashe

Moderator
Moderator
#83
You're misunderstanding me. I didn't move your posts in which you discussed your drug experiences. We haven't come to a decision about it so it's still good to go in the CT. I only moved the meta-discussion-- the discussion about WHETHER we are allowed to discuss drugs.
 

Menashe

Moderator
Moderator
#84
Here's the bottom line guys. I've been contemplating a lot of the recent events on the CT and what would be the best way to learn from it.

We're a new community and there aren't really any guidelines or rulebook out there that explain the best ways to regulate such a young community. It takes a lot of common sense and it's something we'll learn the most through experience. But, being an intelligent group of people, I think we are cut out to reaching intelligent solutions.

I was conflicted about what was going on here the past few days because, on one hand, the atmosphere becomes unpleasant and a lot of negativity gets floated around. On the other hand, I feel like a lot of these discussions are natural and legitimate, though they may be unpleasant. For example, the dynamics/fighting between some of the members does make sense, and it's quite natural. Telling people not to rub shoulders the wrong way is like telling them to become someone who they are not. Fights and arguments do happen in real life, and if you saw two classmates fighting, the rest of the class isn't going to pick them up forcefully and remove them from the school because they only allow friendship and "fuzzy-wuzzy" feelings. If two people have issues, they have to work it out. As long as it's kept within a certain "norm" so things don't get extreme or dangerous, they should be allowed to fight and hopefully come to some conclusion.

The problem is when they disrupt the lives of others. The same goes for discussions of how to handle user registration on the boards and how to handle discussion of personal drug use. They are legitimate topics of discussion, but they can't be allowed to disrupt everyone else's experience. The way to handle this is to set up boundaries. There has to be a structure in the community of where things belong. Everything has to have its place.

So, discussion of user registration and drugs can go into the thread where we discuss the boards rules and regulations. Syndi and MB brought up issues with closing registration and they have every right to question it. They make good points. But, the discussion can go on in its appropriate place. I have no issue with Syni, MB, and Aki fighting it out with Aces as much as they want. Maybe they have a point and it would be good to let the fight reach it own natural conclusions. But, it can't be allowed to disrupt everyone else's experience. If they really felt the need for that discussion, they could do it in PMs. Or maybe a specific thread should be made dedicated to that purpose. But, their personal conflict should not be allowed to spill over into other threads and definitely not the CT. It's not the place for it.

We would also have to set limits to the specific thread that certain extremes of disrespect shouldn't be crossed. You can get personal but you can't start calling someone racist names or whatever. If you need to do that, do it in a PM. People always have free will and have the ability to choose good/evil in private. But, for a functioning community there has to be boundaries.

So, for now, I've moved all discussion about whether drug-talk should be allowed and user registration to the TOS thread. If anyone starts up these discussions, they're not getting a ban. They're just getting shipped over to the appropriate thread. We may have to play around with new forums/threads for different types of discussion as we see they're needed.

This is also a point which I think is important. In the places I've been involved in with education they always say, the bigger the rulebook is, the worse the school is. Good schools don't need as many rules. I think it's the same thing with the TOS and banning. I personally hate banning and even having any TOS at all. The fact is, certain limits have to be set down for the extremes. So there have to be some rules and there have to be consequences to keep those rules in check. However, I'd much rather find smarter solutions for as many of the issues as we can. Which is why I think the first thing we have to work on is creating a structure to the community that keeps things running smoothly, and setting boundaries to keep the structure enforced. I'd rather us be moderating structure than for us to be moderating individuals. The individuals should fall naturally into place within the structure.

There are some other points I've been discussing with the staff, for example, the amount of moderation going on and whether we really need so many of the staff to be involved in moderating. Right now it feels like there are a hundred people all pouncing to deal with every issue. There's a reason why kids have two parents and not twenty parents. Twenty parents wouldn't make for a better upbringing but for less clear messages and leadership. So, this is something I'm thinking about as we move forward.

I invite anyone and everyone to share their opinion about this topic right here in this thread.
 

Aki

Well-Known Member
#85
"uber_paddler" wrote: I'll preface this by saying that I agree with your assertion that we should be free to talk about anything that's important in our lives. However, a lot of your arguments seem to be based on broad, sweeping, and unverifiable claims and thus makes your overall argument appear to be rather weak. The persecutionist tone doesn't really help either.
And the kids read random pages of the CT is a valid argument? What proof is there that kids read random pages of the CT?

Everyone is focusing on the so called persecutionist tone and not what I'm saying. No one has provided a valid argument as to why I shouldn't be allowed to say that I'm toking. I'm sick and tired of this bitching because I post a line about taking a gnarly bong rip. If it bothers you than don't read it. Most importantly, I'm becoming sick and fucking tired of the users on this site who walk around with a stick up there ass, they know who they are. I'm smooth puffing zig-zags, quit the riff raff, bitching with your bitch ass. Do whatever you guys want with my account, I'm done with this place. peace
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#86
I don't personally see an issue with discussing drugs or sex, but I do believe it makes sense for it to have its specific avenue. It's all well for me to think everyone should be as open as I am to discussing certain topics, but in reality there are many others with more reservations (and I too will have my reservations in cases where the topics brought up are not of my liking).

In my opinion, there should be a separate community thread that is made specifically for "mature" topics, be they drugs, sex, and who knows what else, depending on how risky it is legally for us to even host these discussions. It might not make sense for such a thread to exist this early in our community's life, but certainly it would make more sense in the future when the CT audience gets bigger and more varied in topics.

In generall, I too believe the Community Thread should be not a space to vent personal issues and debatable life choices, but for lighthearted bonding. I believe practically anything can be discussed in our forums, of course, but maybe the CT specifically should be kept relatively "safe" of anything that is unpleasant to others, to a certain extent.
 
#87
Because I cannot stand to stay silent on this matter any longer, I'm going to take this opportunity to add my thoughts on the matter. However, I will try and keep it brief, seeing as I have a tendency to fly off on essay-length rants and would rather avoid that in this case.

Simply put, I find the idea of trying to section off more "mature" subject matters into a separate thread an act in futility. Did Menashe not try something similar with the "Slice of Life" thread which essentially died a swift death after Theresa and I, more or less its sole contributors, gave up on it due to a complete lack of activity? Do you honestly believe that users would, in the case of wanting to discuss more delicate subject matter, default to a thread in which the likelihood of their posts even being read was nill? Perhaps if our community were larger, it would more readily take to such solutions and the aforementioned threads would be occupied by more than the occasional tumbleweed.

But NE is just starting out and, outside of the community thread, there's little to no activity to be found. And why does everyone flock there? Not because it's perceived as the happy-fun-time thread, but rather because they wish to speak to the community at large, not an absurdly small sub-section of it, which is all they would get elsewhere. The lives of our community members are varied, and what you're proposing would diminish that severely. To think that if my post isn't all sunshine and happiness, or if it contains something a select few might find questionable, that I would then be required to relocate it to someplace else smacks of ridiculousness. What you're asking is that we censor ourselves as if we're speaking to children, as if it's our duty to not speak of anything that might tarnish their naive state of happiness.

If I enter a community thread, whether it be on here, IGN, or another forum entirely, I go there looking to get to know the members, a task which borders on impossible when those members aren't free to speak their minds, to say all that's on their mind. While I understand the desire to distinguish NE from IGN in any way possible, I'm of the opinion that IGN has it right in this case. Never did I see a user point me in the direction of another board or thread when what I said grew more personal. Instead, the users were there for me, and it was comforting knowing that was the case. And, if I felt I was being too much of a downer, I could always take it to PMs in order to lessen the burden, so to speak, on the community.

I'm capable of realizing when I should exercise restraint, when I might end up stepping on someone's toes or dragging everyone down. On numerous occasions I've spoilered large portions of my posts so as to allow users who would rather skip over my ramblings could do so. We should trust our users to do the same. Now I'm not suggesting that everyone should start spoilering everything they worry might be deemed as questionable, but rather that we should faith in the community to censor itself, so to speak, and to work out any disagreements that might arise in the process. I know I do. I mean, it's not as if Aki was acting upon some sort of pro-pot agenda. He just mentioned his smoking habits, and in a pretty off-handed fashion. So, honestly, I don't see the reason behind all the outrage, and that's not even delving into my thoughts on the drug itself, those who use it, its legality, the war on drugs as a whole, etc.

In my opinion, the community should be tasked with learning to accept everyone for who they are, and to settle any differences in a civil fashion, not with censoring themselves on the off chance that another user might get a tad offended. And if that doesn't end up being the case, if the community thread does turn into the PG-rated happy-fun-time thread, and all other topics of discussion get jettisoned like lepers into other threads that will undoubtedly be forgotten about soon after their creation, no differently than the "Slice of Life" thread, I expect I'll leave this forum as well. Why? Well, if I hadn't made myself clear enough already with all of the above, I'll put it more succinctly: no one should ever, within reason, have to censor his or her words, or who he or she is. This isn't 1984, and you mods aren't the thought police. Hyperbolic? Yes. But not that far off the mark.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#88
No, I agree for the most part with FETid. The point of the CT is to be a thread for the community, and it is true that it makes sense for it to address everything a community goes through. It's basically the living room of the Wii and WiiU house, so it should be a neutral ground. Yes, everyone should make an effort to keep it lively and welcoming, but at the same time not feel like they can't talk to people about their problems there.

The best thing I can say is that it's a difficult balance, so please be patient as we figure it out through the following weeks. This is particularly true now, when we are a bit uncertain about making changes due to the impending board rehaul.

As for us being a "games board", I don't believe that very much. It's more like "we are all here because of games", which doesn't mean that it's all we're going to talk about. One of the most limiting things of the IGN boards, in my opinion, was how limited it was, and how it prevented the organic growth of a real community. Those of us who resisted that and proceeded to get to know each other at a deeper personal level became good friends, and at the same time were forced out of IGN for it. One of the big reasons we are here to begin with is to form a community that goes deeper than just games talk, so that should continue being a factor in our growth.

Once again, though, the solutions are difficult to conceive, so patience is your best recourse. And of course, continuing the debate here so we have a better sense of what the community wants and how to provide it.
 

Menashe

Moderator
Moderator
#90
Lol. The thanks is just a plugin for Vanilla forums. We're going to change it to say Like instead of thanks. Also mentions should work @nerdman
 

nerdman

pig's gotta fly
#92
Improvements look good. Just thought I share that poster and forum stats on side is very hard to read with the black text on gray background.
 

Aki

Well-Known Member
#93
I'm appealing the notion that lines like "I toked" or that "I took a gnarly bong rip" should be banned in the CT. I don't believe any valid arguments were made in favor of that talk being prohibited. The two main arguments were "I don't like it" and "kids visit these forums", amongst others. I will now state my opinion on these points.I can't talk about my homosexual relationship, so he shouldn't be able to say that he's toking: I would like to point out the obvious. Being gay and smoking pot are in no way related aside from being legal in certain part of the world. One of them questions, religion, morals, the concept of a family, the law, etc. The other only questions the law, in less places than being gay, and some religions.

Little kids come here:
Let's be realistic for a minute. What are the chances of a little kid coming from the home page to the forums, more specifically, to the Wii U Board into the Community Thread and spotting my posts on a random page of that thread? Not to mention, I don't explicitly talk about it. I simply say I'm toking or I'm ripping the bong, two phrases which are most likely foreign to the so called little kids who frequent here. Let's also be realistic by saying that this is a relatively unknown site, no disrespect to anyone here, so the amount of kids browsing it, if there are any, is very limited.

Theresa:
Before I continue with this, I apologize if I get the terminology wrong, I'm not trying to offend anyone. If you guys remember, in earlier pages of the CT, Theresa, posted about being a transvestite and about how hard it is and what not. I had an objection to that, not because she's a transvestite, but because It was outright depressing. I filed a complaint with a few of the mods, most likely you guys, and I was told that it's ok and that she's free to express herself. So, I ask, why is it ok for her to post about that and not ok for me to post about toking? The same two reasons that are behind this ban should apply to that. sans-serif; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; ">I don't like it: Now we've hit the nail on the head. This is a fine example of discrimination. They don't like it, so what?There are plenty of things that myself and others don't like and they aren't banned. For example, many people here don't like homosexuals, yet users are allowed and encouraged to say that they're gay, many don't like transvestites, same thing as being gay, many don't like fanboys, yet we have a few of them here spewing their nonsense, many don't like trolls, yet one of them is an abusive mod, etc. The bottom line is that I'm not offending anyone by posting that I'm toking. If they don't like it, they should ignore it. I'm not telling people that it's ok to do it, I'm indirectly telling them that I think it's ok to do it. I'm not up in anyone's face about it and it doesn't take away from anything. It's plain discrimination against me and the others who made the personal decision toke by users that are more than likely more in favor with you guys than I am. Not to mention, those against it who crawled out of the woodwork (Cyan & Bob) rarely post in the CT.

Your Solution / Proposal:
I would also like to point out that your solution of having a thread specifically for mature talk is actually more effective at exposing kids to sex and drugs than my posts in random pages of the CT are. The thread is more visible, with it being more visible, it will make kids more curios to go inside it. I don't believe there are many ways to prevent that, since most kids probably don't register with their actual birthdays.

I advertise this site for free*:
I'd also like to remind you that I do advertise this site. I have a clear link to it in my IGN signature, one with which I post a good amount of the time. Being as colorful and unique of a member has I am, I attract quite the following, so I'm sure that many people have seen it, if not even clicked on it. I have also recruited or attempted to recruit members from IGN. Finally, I rock the TNE clan tag in Black Ops 2 and in my modest and humble opinion, I'm one of the better members of TNE's World Class Wrecking Crew. There is a reason why I'm nicknamed 2k All Day, lol, and with the amount of kills that I get and the amount of kill cams, people regularly see TNE.align: left; ">
Well, there you go. Those are my reasons and I hope that they're taken into consideration alongside the flawed argument, that has more holes than swiss cheese, from the opposition. I look forward to hearing from you guys and in the meantime, I'll just chill and not post anything because I don't know if I'm willing to commit myself to a site that discriminates upon users because the mod's friends don't like it. I hope that a swift and pleasant decision is made.

*Don't take the final point too seriously, however, still give it some consideration.
 

nerdman

pig's gotta fly
#94
As for drug related conversation, I think casual conversation is fine. I think making specific threads or in-depth conversations should be against TOS. I don't think a Nintendo forum should aid people in finding and using drugs, but talking about your habit in a casual way is fine to me.
 
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