Doom: Switch Edition

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
I reluctantly went to bed early last night. I really wanted to stay up and play Doom with you guys, but I was dog tired. I have been doing Circuit Training classes that take the Orange Theory approach, and it has been fun but taxing my system. I would certainly be up for playing Friday nights, but I need to get started no later than 9:30 eastern time so that I can call it a night by 12am. We do the 10:30am class on Saturdays, and I need to make sure I get a solid 8 hours of sleep before that.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
Finally beat the single player. Whew. Random observations:

-This is the most exciting game I've played since Vanquish, but in a completely different way. Vanquish gives you all kinds of slick mechanics to look cool and feel like a badass. DOOM is the opposite. "Here's a gun. Hell is that way. Don't die." You get thrown into impossible scrums, and there is no help. There is no bullet time, there is no invulnerability dodge, there is no corner you can hide behind while your health regenerates. You want health? Glory kill something in the face.

-Needs a difficulty between "I'm Too Young to Die" and "Hurt Me Plenty." I stuck with the latter for about 3/4 of the game before I was just tired of the pacing. But the former is kinda too easy. I ping-ponged back and forth between them for the final section of the game.

-The pacing is the one place this game falls down for me. You have two speeds of gameplay: "walk alone for awhile" and "jump into a demonic gang-bang in progress." There's not much in-between. Combat in DOOM is like that moment in "Machine Gun" (at the 3:59 mark) when Hendrix bends a note and sustains it, and it just screams. ...except DOOM almost never plays any of the other notes in the solo. Which takes away from why that note sounds the way it does in context. If that's the only thing you're offering, it begins to grate a bit. I've read people saying "combat in DOOM never gets old." In places, it did for me. But...then you hit play and that note sounds like it'll melt your face all over again. They went for one thing here, and they succeeded at it. They spike the football and skull-fuck the opposing team, too, but they certainly got the touchdown.

-Alright, also Summoners. Why? You're throwing wave after wave of enemies at me, anyways. Why even put these bastards in the game?

-Best 15-minute opening of any game in recent memory. This title drop is just, I mean...


...I WANT TO BREAK THINGS AND PILLAGE A SMALL MIDWESTERN TOWN FULL OF QUAKERS

-The graphics technology gets all the love for this game, and I get it. I get that id Tech 6 is something special. But the art, man. That's why this game looks so good. That's why it works at 600p on the Switch. Good art can be blurred up a little, but still be recognizably awesome. In 10 years, this game will still look good because of its art direction.

-The levels aren't as elaborate as you'll get in more adventure-centric games, but there are places here that feel Prime-ish. If anyone wants to understand why so many of us are sore that Retro has been on DKC duty for the last decade, they should play some of the quieter parts of this game. "Oh, so I go up there, then double jump over on the column, then walk over to that room." Again, not elaborate. But there's that little bit of magic to the formula, and id applied it here, and I'm really happy that they did.

-There aren't many more satisfying feelings in gaming than being down to your peashooter handgun and a chainsaw, with two Hell Knights chasing you, and living to tell the tale.

-I'm sure the lore all makes sense, and that the story is probably pretty good. I'm sure it's probably all in that tiny text (which might as well be a Chongqing phone book). I'm also sure that all I got out of it in-game was that "hey, my co-worker kinda went nuts, and you're a doomslayer, so get on that shit."

-Not sure if I really wanna go back and replay this on higher difficulties. But I'm glad I finished it. Glad I played it. Glad it was made. Admire the hell out of it.
 
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Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
The story that gets thrown at you in the game is pretty basic, and @EvilTw1n's summary is pretty accurate. The lore is where they just threw down a bunch of wacky hints and just had fun with themselves:

The Doom Marine is hinted to be the same Doomguy from Doom 1, 2, and Doom 64. The idea is that he stayed in Hell at the end of Doom 64, and because time in hell flows differently, he tormented the demons of hell for eons until they trapped him. He gets pulled by the UAC into Mars (in an alternate timeline?), which is where DOOM begins. He's supposed to have been helped in the past by a hooded figure called Seraphim, which possibly just represents the player.
:mmischief:

I do think the game can grate on you if you play it too long at a time. I loved it mostly because I basically played one level each day (perfect length, about 1 hour each level). Then I replayed it on a harder difficulty setting, still one level at a time. I think part of why I loved it is because it gave me a break from Overwatch, while still allowing me to show off my FPS skills. That's why I couldn't get it on Switch. No matter how well it runs or how convenient it is to play it portable, I can't go back to Dual Analog for a game like this - it would actually hamper my ability to express myself through the game.

But I'm glad you guys, and Switch owners in general, finally got to experience this game.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
I do think the game can grate on you if you play it too long at a time. I loved it mostly because I basically played one level each day (perfect length, about 1 hour each level). Then I replayed it on a harder difficulty setting, still one level at a time.
That's how I should have played it. But the mechanics are so fun that I'd string three levels together, and by the end of it, I felt like I'd fucked an electrical socket.
I think part of why I loved it is because it gave me a break from Overwatch, while still allowing me to show off my FPS skills. That's why I couldn't get it on Switch. No matter how well it runs or how convenient it is to play it portable, I can't go back to Dual Analog for a game like this - it would actually hamper my ability to express myself through the game.

But I'm glad you guys, and Switch owners in general, finally got to experience this game.
I honestly don't get this part. I grok that headshots are probably a must on higher difficulties, but otherwise, this isn't a finesse game. There are no 180 no-scopes. That's kinda why I dig it. You're supposed to take damage and feel like you've been in a fight. If DOOM guy has a super power, it isn't the suit or superior aiming. It's that he has balls made of adamantium and a scrotum made of mithril.

...alright, I'll eventually replay some stuff on normal difficulty. In a few months, when I come down from this adrenaline high.
 
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sjmartin79

White Phoenix of the Crown
I'm thinking this may be the next game I am going to play before I start in on Xenoblade 2.
(After how many hours I spent on Skyrim, I need a few smaller games to cleanse the pallet before diving in to another 100+ hour game.)
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
I'm thinking this may be the next game I am going to play before I start in on Xenoblade 2.
(After how many hours I spent on Skyrim, I need a few smaller games to cleanse the pallet before diving in to another 100+ hour game.)
This would defiantly be a pallet cleaning reset for you after those 2 games. I think you will really enjoy it, but it’s fast but great.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
If I ever want to play Doom on a higher difficulty than hurt me plenty I would probably buy it for PC so I can play at 60fps. As it stands hurt me plenty is an adrenaline rush that doesn't let up. You really feel stressed and a sense of panic at times. With each successful fight there is a huge sense of relief upon accomplishment. With each death comes the compelling desire to throw your controller against the wall. Once you regain control of your emotions you immediately want to give it another go, even if you are still pissed off. I found in too young to die to be a bit too easy after completing the game on hurt me plenty. The adrenaline rush isn't there, and I found the experience far less rewarding. Doom is a game worth replaying many times, so if you go in with the understanding that starting with an easier difficulty is really just prepping yourself for the next play through at higher difficulty, it will really make it less frustrating having a solid foundation of skills. Great fucking game!

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
 

Koenig

The Architect
This game makes me wish that the next Prime game will have some form of melee attack or "Glory" kill. It probably would not fit...but maybe it could?
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
I honestly don't get this part. I grok that headshots are probably a must on higher difficulties, but otherwise, this isn't a finesse game. There are no 180 no-scopes. That's kinda why I dig it. You're supposed to take damage and feel like you've been in a fight. If DOOM guy has a super power, it isn't the suit or superior aiming. It's that he has balls made of adamantium and a scrotum made of mithril.
You can hardly take damage in Nightmare difficulty, any stray projectile will bring you down to 20 health. Armor and Health pickups replenish only a fraction of what they replenish even in Ultra Violence, too. On top of that, enemies move around more and throw more stuff at you. So it's the combined problem of having to move and jump around to not die, and hitting enemies in their weak points with the right weapons to kill them more quickly. But more than that, I think it's the ability to express myself through my gameplay, and by that I just mean that my controller doesn't keep me from doing things that I already have the skill to do, like pulling headshots or do a quick 180 after jumping over a demon. Every time I go back to Dual Analog aiming, the inability to perform flick shots or track an enemy properly hits me right in the face.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
I’m probably gonna finish DooM today. Very very glad I dropped the difficulty because really all I wanna do is finish the game. While I’m lovin it, I’m also ready for it to end..........it’s just to much for me I can’t stand the intense stress. It is preformed to perfect evacuation of what a DooM game should be. And since I got into Hell the game has gotten tons better. This is more what I was expecting for the git go.

I’m in it for the multiplayer and I’m totally happy about that ultimately.
 

sjmartin79

White Phoenix of the Crown
I’m probably gonna finish DooM today. Very very glad I dropped the difficulty because really all I wanna do is finish the game. While I’m lovin it, I’m also ready for it to end..........it’s just to much for me I can’t stand the intense stress. It is preformed to perfect evacuation of what a DooM game should be. And since I got into Hell the game has gotten tons better. This is more what I was expecting for the git go.

I’m in it for the multiplayer and I’m totally happy about that ultimately.
What difficulty to you play it on? This will be my first Doom game.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
What difficulty to you play it on? This will be my first Doom game.
I was playing it on hurt me plenty, and it got so stressful that I was actively avoiding playing the single player.

I went down to I’m to young to die and it’s been great. I feel like it’s been a good challenge but not so exhausting I don’t wanna hit the next area.

Totally agree with @EvilTw1n tho in the fact there should be a difficulty inbetween those 2 options.
 

Koenig

The Architect
Hurt me plenty seemed like just the right sweet spot to me. I died a handful of times during combat, but that was usually from me trying to do achievements. I died to bottomless pits far more than I did the Demon's of Hell.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
I’m probably gonna finish DooM today. Very very glad I dropped the difficulty because really all I wanna do is finish the game. While I’m lovin it, I’m also ready for it to end..........it’s just to much for me I can’t stand the intense stress. It is preformed to perfect evacuation of what a DooM game should be. And since I got into Hell the game has gotten tons better. This is more what I was expecting for the git go.

I’m in it for the multiplayer and I’m totally happy about that ultimately.
I go through cycles on the type of experience I am into. I would not want to play nothing but high energy, adrenaline filled experiences like Doom all the time. There are times I am down with that, and when I played Doom I was in that type of mood, but then there are times I just want to play a more low energy experience like Steamworld Heist. I have to say, Bayonetta was similar to Doom in this respect. Playing Bayonetta on anything but the easiest mode was typically pretty punishing. Especially trying to get decent medals in the original Bayonetta, using consumables resulted in a lower grade. I worked hard getting my overall grade up to Gold status (might have been Platinum, cant remember). Doom isn't like any other shooter, it is more of an action game really.

@FriedShoes @Juegos

You guys are beast, not sure how you manage to survive in Ultra Violence and Nightmare. I am not joking when I say my Pro controller nearly hit the wall on multiple occasions when playing through in hurt me plenty. If there is a steam sale for Doom this year where I can double dip for $10 I will get Doom on PC and play it on Ultra Violence, but that would be my absolute limit. I know I would break and controller, and possibly need a new tv after my controller pierces it. LOL
 
I played on ultra violence, maybe 8 instances where it lagged up something stupid, but fine otherwise. The bosses, like Doom, can be sorta cheesed. The only enemy that made me rage quite a bit is the Pinky demons, either variety, which is great considering they are chumps in the original game.

My game playing history began, as far as I can recall, with Doom. As such, I've played pretty much every game like I would play Doom. Go fast, attack accurately, be very efficient and creative with games. So I've been kinda ready for this game for years.
That said, I died a lot, but you live and learn.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
I go through cycles on the type of experience I am into. I would not want to play nothing but high energy, adrenaline filled experiences like Doom all the time. There are times I am down with that, and when I played Doom I was in that type of mood, but then there are times I just want to play a more low energy experience like Steamworld Heist. I have to say, Bayonetta was similar to Doom in this respect. Playing Bayonetta on anything but the easiest mode was typically pretty punishing. Especially trying to get decent medals in the original Bayonetta, using consumables resulted in a lower grade. I worked hard getting my overall grade up to Gold status (might have been Platinum, cant remember). Doom isn't like any other shooter, it is more of an action game really.

@FriedShoes @Juegos

You guys are beast, not sure how you manage to survive in Ultra Violence and Nightmare. I am not joking when I say my Pro controller nearly hit the wall on multiple occasions when playing through in hurt me plenty. If there is a steam sale for Doom this year where I can double dip for $10 I will get Doom on PC and play it on Ultra Violence, but that would be my absolute limit. I know I would break and controller, and possibly need a new tv after my controller pierces it. LOL
I’m also not the biggest fan of the Bayos, while I love them there also difficult for me because of how fast and stressful they can be. I always have had the most fun with the on lower difficulty’s because I feel very effective. If it’s to fast and I can’t get the combos i will stop playing. But I wanna beat those games aswell so I go at it for the best way for me. These types of action games I always set lower.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
You can hardly take damage in Nightmare difficulty, any stray projectile will bring you down to 20 health. Armor and Health pickups replenish only a fraction of what they replenish even in Ultra Violence, too. On top of that, enemies move around more and throw more stuff at you. So it's the combined problem of having to move and jump around to not die, and hitting enemies in their weak points with the right weapons to kill them more quickly. But more than that, I think it's the ability to express myself through my gameplay, and by that I just mean that my controller doesn't keep me from doing things that I already have the skill to do, like pulling headshots or do a quick 180 after jumping over a demon. Every time I go back to Dual Analog aiming, the inability to perform flick shots or track an enemy properly hits me right in the face.
That's cool. I've just never had much use for "blink and die" difficulty (let alone this monstrosity).
I go through cycles on the type of experience I am into. I would not want to play nothing but high energy, adrenaline filled experiences like Doom all the time. There are times I am down with that, and when I played Doom I was in that type of mood, but then there are times I just want to play a more low energy experience like Steamworld Heist. I have to say, Bayonetta was similar to Doom in this respect. Playing Bayonetta on anything but the easiest mode was typically pretty punishing. Especially trying to get decent medals in the original Bayonetta, using consumables resulted in a lower grade. I worked hard getting my overall grade up to Gold status (might have been Platinum, cant remember). Doom isn't like any other shooter, it is more of an action game really.
I was coming from TMS#FE with XBC2 and Odyssey sprinkled in, so I was very much in the mood for DOOM. And you're right about the action game feel of it. I mean, it's obviously an FPS and dependent on the weaponry, but you get the feeling that id could have made this game with a fists-chainsaw-grenade mode.
 
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sjmartin79

White Phoenix of the Crown
A fix for the inability to select anything in the menu after a certain point in the game is a top priority for me. I hit that bug this weekend. Can't upgrade anything now.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
I am hoping there is a multitude of fixes for this game. I love it so much, but there are plenty of minor blemishes that hold it back from true greatness. Like ET said, the online party system needs a big improvement. The framerate/netcode lag could use a nice boost. The sound issue in single player is an obvious fix. Doom is such a nice game on Switch that just has enough rough edges to annoy you. I was getting unsure if a patch was ever going to come. There was early reports that they were working on one, but as times passed on, I became more and more convinced that Bethesda had already moved on to Wolfenstein 2. I am optimistic that this patch will further improve an already great game, and make it a staple for me many months and years to come.
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
I played on ultra violence, maybe 8 instances where it lagged up something stupid, but fine otherwise. The bosses, like Doom, can be sorta cheesed. The only enemy that made me rage quite a bit is the Pinky demons, either variety, which is great considering they are chumps in the original game.

My game playing history began, as far as I can recall, with Doom. As such, I've played pretty much every game like I would play Doom. Go fast, attack accurately, be very efficient and creative with games. So I've been kinda ready for this game for years.
That said, I died a lot, but you live and learn.
Classic doom, good times.

I played doom 2 so many times.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
It's interesting to see that a lot of you seem to like the multiplayer. Pretty much everybody hated it iirc.

Also, Bethesda needs to release some info on Wolfenstein II for Switch, because I don't want it to become the next vaporware 3rd party port on a Nintendo console [Redout and Steep on Switch, Watch Dogs on Wii U].
 

Koenig

The Architect
Its not like the switch has any other FPS multiplayer games right now. I really hope the rumors about a switch version of CoD are true.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
I'm going to make it my mission to put up footage of myself aiming well with gyro controls, both in Splatoon 2 and DOOM. I want to start a movement for more gyro aiming. Come on, gyros are cheap af, there's no reason that every single modern controller can't have them, and raise the competitive ceiling for shooters in those systems.

My first challenge is seeing how well the gyro can emulate Mouse techniques like these:

 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
My first impressions are mostly about aiming. Compared to Splatoon 2 gyro aiming, DOOM's gyro aiming sucks.

First, it has the same problem as Breath of the Wild gyro aiming, where the cursor is prone to drifting frequently, meaning that it has to be reset often. I believe this has something to do with the rate at which the game pulls the gyro's data into the game's logic cycle (it could be too low or too high). I tested Splatoon 2 again to compare, and Splatoon 2 is miles better.

But more than that, the other significant problem is the low range of motion that gyro aiming allows for, even at max settings. Basically, at max sensitivity settings, your gyro is mapped 1:1 with real 3D space. This means that if an in-game enemy is standing at 45 degrees to your left, then you have to turn your controller 45 degrees to your left in order to aim at him. See this sounds like it makes sense, but it stops the moment you realize you'd have to strap the screen to your face and spin in your chair for this to work. In Splatoon 2, higher sensitivity settings make it so that moving the controller the same amounts, e.g. 45 degrees, will move the in-game cursor by a larger amount, like 135 degrees. This made it possible to acquire targets and track enemies effectively without falling off your chair.

It's not hard to do stuff like this in Splatoon 2 (not my video):

But that's practically impossible in DOOM unless, again, you strap the monitor to your face and spin in your chair like a maniac. But even then, you'd be dealing with the horrifying drift, so by the time you turn back to where you started, your character will be looking at the wall or the ceiling.

I mean, it's not that bad. If they just increase the range of motion that the maximum motion controls sensitivity allows, it'll be pretty decent. But it makes me appreciate the super god skills of the Splatoon team even more.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
So, @Juegos is a gyro believer, and doesn't like the controls in DOOM.

After reading this, despite its inaccuracies (there is 100% no waggle in Splatoon, numbnuts), I was really hopeful, man. I really want to enjoy this sort of scheme, because I miss my Wiimote pretty bad for aiming in shooters. But the gyro in Splatoon always felt too twitchy to me, like it was taking the worst of IR and DA and combining them into one subpar package. I thought a more subtle gyro would be right up my alley. I was super hyped to try DOOM out with motion controls.



I started with a stress test - controls turned up 100% to see what their ceiling is. It's exactly what Joog said - if you'd like to try to use the gyro to aim, you'd need to turn around and look at the wall behind your couch to shoot anyone firing at you from behind. As an aiming substitute, that's actually worse than DA. But...as a subtle fine tuner, maybe...?

So I turned them down. At the 50% default, it just made everything onscreen feel like there was a strange, really subtle frame judder. It's like the gryo can't decide where it wants to position itself. So I turned it down to 25%. Relatively stable. I thought I'd use it like that article described, for fine tuning vertical aiming, pretty much. But...
First, it has the same problem as Breath of the Wild gyro aiming, where the cursor is prone to drifting frequently, meaning that it has to be reset often. I believe this has something to do with the rate at which the game pulls the gyro's data into the game's logic cycle (it could be too low or too high)
...because of cursor drift, what qualifies as fine-tuning to aim upward changes about every 20 seconds. I'm going to mess around with it more, turn it down a touch and see if that helps, but I doubt it will.

I know the skill ceiling is higher with gryos than DA...but I don't think they'll ever feel right to me. With IR or a mouse, it's simple - physically move with one hand/thumb, aim with the other. DA sacrifices fine aiming, but it's also simple - one thumb moves you physically, the other adjusts your view. Bemoan any of those schemes, but they're all logical and intuitive. Gyro is like adding a third analog stick that acts as a master override to the other two sticks, and that feels 100% unintuitive and wonky to me.

Oh well. At least there's a party system now.
 

Koenig

The Architect
Without an IR sensor to anchor the Gyroscope I think any continuously First Person game will needed a dedicated button to stabilize the system. Gyroscopes are very smooth, but on there own they are still far too unstable for longer periods of time. I still like Gyroscope + DA more than DA on its own, but there is plenty of room for improvement, most of which could be solved with an IR sensor tied with it.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
Seems like the patch really did improve the game.

Pre patch courtesy of ResetEra


Post patch.


Pretty massive difference. I could pixel count it to see if the bottom is native 720p, but it would probably be a pain in the ass due to the heavy TAA, post processing, and lack of straight edges.


Panic Button is also apparently happy with the sales of the game. This means two things: 1) it's selling well which is fuggin good since it means mature content is finally selling well on a Nintendo system and 2) the port didn't have a huge budget that required a lot of reimbursement.
 
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Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
We played Doom last night, and it plays much smoother online than before. I am a frarerate whore, and before it felt like it fluctuated in the mid 20's a lot, but last night just about every match felt like a near locked 30fps. Visuals are harder to tell without side by side comparisons, but I am inclined to believe it looks a bit sharper.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
 
maybe in docked. Handheld is still pretty much the same, barring performance which is a bit more stable and no more audio annoying audio bugs.

I'm gonna have to agree with the choir here after putting more time into the game. Gyro controls in this game are not great. There was a lot of discussion last night as to why it was the case, why it seems one of the only games that gets it right is Splatoon. There's a lot of factors, but the implementation is just off in the end. I think one of the reasons I clamor so much for the scheme in games is because I would like it to be a standard, go-to, scheme. Only when it reaches that point will time be put in to the gyro controls and they'll reach a point where its a true advantage over dual analog. Because unfortunately IR aiming isn't coming back, guys.

As bad as it is, imo its still relative. I still prefer them on rather than off. Once I went back, I found myself subconciously correcting my aim by moving my controller to no avail. So thats probably what it'll be.
One thing though, might be my controllers but it also happened on my Pro when I played a few days ago: has your camera shifted suddenly to the left or right without any controller or gyro input? I dont know what it is, but it happened like 5 times last night and was very annoying. I dont think its drift, but I dont think its my controllers either.

Also I killed it last night, everyone else is a fruitless shittalker.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
We played Doom last night, and it plays much smoother online than before. I am a frarerate whore, and before it felt like it fluctuated in the mid 20's a lot, but last night just about every match felt like a near locked 30fps. Visuals are harder to tell without side by side comparisons, but I am inclined to believe it looks a bit sharper.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
Agree 100%
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
We played Doom last night, and it plays much smoother online than before. I am a frarerate whore, and before it felt like it fluctuated in the mid 20's a lot, but last night just about every match felt like a near locked 30fps. Visuals are harder to tell without side by side comparisons, but I am inclined to believe it looks a bit sharper.
Were you playing with the default region? The games always felt a little ass-y to me with that Europe default.
 
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