Four Steps That Can Make a Big Impact on Saving the Xbox Brand

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#1
The Xbox brand has hit its high point through the pre-orders of the Xbox One X and titles like Cuphead, but its also in trouble. With Nintendo actually bothering to compete this time, resulting in a 10 year peak stock, Microsoft has been blowing it in the area that counts: the games. Microsoft cancelled tons of potential exclusive titles such as Fable Legends (which would have been the first shipped UE4 console game with full real time global illumination), Scalebound (does "those shits at Microsoft, are they fucking with me" sound familiar?), and Phantom Dust, which did them no good, and now, their biggest franchise they're banking on is Forza, which is now pay 2 win as far as I know. Gears of War 4, although a technical marvel and my favorite game in the franchise, failed to reinvigorate interest in the Xbox One, Crackdown 3's development is in serious trouble, Halo 5 was a disappointment (watch The Act Man's videos on it), being the lowest scoring mainline Halo game on Metacritic, and I doubt State of Decay will be able to compete with infinitely more polished looking titles like Days Gone. When Phil Spencer said they had a ton of games to show at E3, people were genuinely excited from what I remember since they thought they would see exclusive games. Instead, this was a farce. Yes, they showed lots of games that, in terms of consoles, will be best played on an Xbox One X, but none of them could be claimed as their own. Yes, the PS4 Pro is vastly less powerful than the One X, but you have games, and more than even Nintendo, to compensate for it.

With that in mind, these are the steps that need to be taken to renew long term interest in Xbox.

1. Fix your current IPs
I'm a huge Halo fan, and while I think Halo 5 did some things right, such as 60 FPS, the gameplay tweaks, and the best Forge mode in the franchise, everything else was a disaster. The campaign suffered from terribly choreographed action scenes, badly written characters with lots of filler characters thrown into the mix, a nonsensical storyline, and false advertising. When I mean false advertising, I mean we didn't even get the same story. The game was advertised as having a new brand of Spartans IVs against renegade Spartan IIs, Chief fighting Locke, Blue Team reconnecting with Chief, Chief suffering from a mental breakdown after Cortana's death and how this relates to combat stress, it would have been epic. However, instead, it was a mess of Ultima IX proportions that basically required all players to understand all of the expanded universe before playing. The gameplay was fun thanks to running at a constant 60 FPS along with some much needed changes to the mechanics, but the game suffers from numerous technical issues, such as poor AI, animation frames that cut in half barely a foot away from you, poor texture filtering, tons of pop-in, shimmering, and some hideously low resolutions (1152x810p being the lowest, despite the game marketed as a 1080p game). Warzone, a promising mode that also showed off Cloud computing, was butchered through pay 2 win content and a fundamentally broken Firefight mode.

I was genuinely hooked on Forza Horizon 2 and declared it to be the best open world racer since Burnout: Paradise, but I refuse to play Forza Motorsport 7 due to the inclusion of pay 2 win loot boxes. If you're going to do that, make the game free to play. Paying $60 just to pay more to win is absolutely disgusting. Additionally, they still haven't implemented truly dynamic weather despite the false advertising. The weather shifts are all baked in and you can't customize the TOD pre-race.

Dead Rising 4 was absolutely terrible, with pretty much worse everything compared to the first game. Inventories were dumbed down, civilians can't be escorted, AI is worse than the 1st game, interactivity is almost entirely gone (can't pick up objects), combat is dumbed down and glitched in some cases, physics are nonexistent, and even in some cases, the visuals and sound were dumbed down (as shown in the video).

This is what needs to be done to save Halo. Don't dive into Halo 6 yet, but release something epic to tie Halo 4 and 5 together so Halo 6 doesn't feel unfinished.

That Steel Battalion game for the 360, I don't even need to discuss it.

For Forza, add true adjustable dynamic weather and get rid of the micro-transactions that *will* kill the franchise. For Dead Rising, make it god damn Dead Rising again. Just give it back to the Japanese team and let them make a new game on MT Framework with twice the interactivity and polish as the first two games.

2. You have other IPs, use them
Well, for one thing, hire the original Rare staff currently sitting away at the dying Crytek UK and work on a true Perfect Dark sequel like what happened before Microsoft cancelled it due to Zero sucking and apparently "having too many exclusives" [heh].

What happened to other titles like Amped, Fable, MechAssault, Otogi, Perfect Dark, Phantom Dust, Project Gotham Racing, Quantum Redshift, and Rallisport Challenge? Give us new installments in old franchises. Also, get 3rd party exclusive titles such as Unreal Championship and various Sega IPs like Jet Grind Radio, Panzer Dragoon, Crazy Taxi, The House of the Dead, Outrun, and Sega GT back. Get Cave back on board so we can get new installments in DoDonPachi, Espgaluda, Mushihimesama, Akai Katana, and Deathsmiles on Xbox One. Cave and Sega were the only reason the Xbox barely had a footing in Japan.

3. Fix your policies
Stop rushing games out (PGR4 devs pointed this out years ago), pulling funding for solid looking games, making up arbitrary rules like not letting indie developers release games on Xbox after PlayStation, being overly controlling dicks (i.e. forcing Scalebound to have co-op when it was never intended), etc. This is why nobody wants to make Xbox exclusives.

If you need to regulate anything, regulate what resolutions games are on your consoles.

4. Improve your backwards compatibility support
Microsoft has taken great steps to legitimize their emulation system since they first revealed it for the Xbox One. The launch was initially quite disastrous, with games like Halo: Reach being nearly unplayable and the overall feeling that most games didn't experience the net gain in performance we all expected. However, unlike the 360's original Xbox emulation, which was bugged to all hell to the point where some games were unplayable and missing features and was barely supported, Microsoft is really pushing to create an ecosystem where your old library doesn't feel left behind...for the most part. Problem is, much like with Microsoft's 1st party content, the games have been inconsistently released, which really sucks because we've seen what Xbox One X can do with emulation. Going from an unlocked framerate with constant screen tearing and trilinear texture filtering to a locked 60 FPS with 16x anisotropic filtering in Metal Gear Rising and Bayonetta is nothing short of game changing.

In the case of the original Xbox, lots of games such as Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Painkiller, Serious Sam, Max Payne 1 & 2, and Star Wars: Republic Commando operated with unlocked framerates, with some like Serious Sam and Republic Commando disabling v-sync as well, while the others were double buffered. This would result in a massive net performance gain on Xbox One, and we've already seen what it can do with with Knights of the Old Republic, a game that was notorious for its bad framerate on Xbox, averaging around 23 FPS. On Xbox One and X? Well, since the game was uncapped, it ran at 45 FPS average on the standard model and 51 FPS on average on the Xbox One X. Yeah, it's not 60 FPS, but when you take into account the amount of CPU overhead caused by emulation, it's super impressive and transforms the game. Also, since pretty much every Xbox game doesn't make use of anisotropic filtering, with some like Outrun 2006 and Fatal Frame II (to be fair, they were PS2 ports) not even using mipmapping, that would be a huge net gain on the Xbox One X, which forces 16xAF at a hardware level.

Below in the spoiler is my massive wishlist for backwards compatibility releases.
360: Ace Combat 6, Akai Katana, Armored Core 4, Armored Core: For Answer, Beautiful Katamari, Binary Domain, Birds of Steel, Burnout Revenge, Chaos;Head Noah, The Darkness, The Darkness II, Dead or Alive 4, Deathsmiles, Deathsmiles II, Divinity II: The Dragon Knight Saga, DoDonPachi DaiFukkatsu Black Label, DoDonPachi Resurrection, DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou, Driver: San Francisco, Dunamis 15, Dust: An Elysian Tail, Espgaluda II Black Label, Ever17, FlatOut: Ultimate Carnage, Garou: Mark of the Wolves, Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter, Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter 2, Goldeneye 007: Reloaded, Guwange, Hitman HD Trilogy, John Woo Presents Stranglehold, Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra, King of Fighters XIII, Lost Planet: Extreme Condition, Metal Gear Solid HD Collection, Midnight Club: Los Angeles - Complete Edition, Mushihimesama Futari Ver 1.5, Mushihimesama HD, Need for Speed: Most Wanted (2005), Ninja Gaiden II, Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge, Radiant Silvergun, Raiden IV, Raiden Fighter Aces, Sega Rally Revo, Spec Ops: The Line, Splinter Cell: Double Agent, Super Robot Wars XO, Tales of Vesperia, Tony Hawk’s Project 8, Under Defeat HD, Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine, Warp

OG Xbox: Arx Fatalis, Burnout 3: Takedown, Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth, Capcom vs. SNK 2 EO, Castlevania: Curse of Darkness, Darkwatch, Dead or Alive Ultimate, Deathrow, Def Jam: Fight for NY, Deus Ex: Invisible War, The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind - Game of the Year Edition, Fatal Frame, Fatal Frame II: Crimson Butterfly - Director’s Cut, Freedom Fighters, Gladius, Ghost Recon, Ghost Recon: Island Thunder, Ghost Recon 2, Ghost Recon 2: Summit Strike, Grand Theft Auto III, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, Gunvalkyrie, Heroes of the Pacific, Hunter: The Reckoning, Jade Empire, Jet Set Radio Future, Kingdom Under Fire: Heroes, Kingdom Under Fire: The Crusaders, Legacy of Kain: Defiance, Max Payne, Max Payne 2: The Fall of Max Payne, Metal Slug 3, MechAssault, MechAssault 2: Lone Wolf, Metal Wolf Chaos, Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath, Otogi: Myth of Demons, Otogi 2: Immortal Warriors, Outrun 2006: Coast 2 Coast, Painkiller: Hell Wars, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones, Prince of Persia: Warrior Within, Psi-Ops: The Mindgate Conspiracy, Rainbow Six 3, Rainbow Six 3: Black Arrow, RalliSport Challenge 2, Return to Castle Wolfenstein: Tides of War, Scarface: The World is Yours, Secret Weapons Over Normandy, Sega GT 2002, Serious Sam, Shenmue II, Spartan: Total Warrior, Splinter Cell, Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory, Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow, Splinter Cell: Double Agent, Star Wars: Republic Commando, The Suffering, The Suffering: Ties That Bind, Thief: Deadly Shadows, TimeSplitters 2, TimeSplitters: Future Perfect, Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 2x, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4, Tony Hawk's Underground, Unreal Championship 2: The Liandri Conflict, XIII, Yager.
 
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Odo

Well-Known Member
#2
I believe Microsoft Co is not excited about Xbox anymore and the Xbox division is trying to cope by themselves. I see the overall strategy like: "Just make PC-like console and wait for customers and put the game on Windows too just in case".

Since the new Microsoft president, Xbox stopped shining somehow and we still don't have enough data about overall Xbox division income as far as I know. The exclusive lineup seems uninspired and we have no other reasons for those cancelled games but either lack of interest or poor executive decisions imo.

NS success is just a new hit that they weren't expecting.

I think the path for Microsoft will be them keep trying to be the second to PS and developing games like Forza to release for both Xbox and PC in this "just in case" approach. I don't see Microsoft killing or selling Xbox, but I can see them let it there to die somehow, even though it wouldn't die easily at all, because it's still a strong competitor in the market.

Besides Microsoft is somehow reorganising themselves and downsizing a little bit. Windows and Office aren't doing very well as a decade ago and the mobile division went down the pan. They surely need to refocus and get rid of the excess of fat in products and get across a new vision of what Microsoft is in the current device market. In the meantime, Xbox will struggle inside the corporation imo, except if it truly starts shining like PS division have among Sony Co divisions.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
#3
The problem I see with Microsoft is that they are almost entirely limited to the hardware segment of the videogame market. Once things went south with the initial rollout of the Xbox One platform, $100 more expensive than its primary competitor and offered inferior levels of performance, how were they going to counter this dilemma? They simply do not have the software to resolve the short comings of their platform. Even with the software that they do have, most of it is little more than technical evolution of games they offered for over a decade now. I do not believe that Forza becomes a system seller with the addition of real time weather effects, most gamers aren't aware of the difference. The bottom line is that Microsoft doesn't have the exclusives to drive more consumers to their platform, and that doesn't look to change any time soon.

Xbox 360 may have been an anomaly. Microsoft was able to launch a year earlier than the PS3, and was $200 cheaper. The 360 also enjoyed a vastly superior exclusive library. Even games like Gears of War, that game floored a lot of people on the 360, and it would be pretty tough for the fourth game of the series to have the same impact. The luster for Halo has been reduced to a far more niche audience. Halo was king of the hill on console shooters for a period of time, and that hasn't been the case for many years now. The 360 also had a terrible 5 year life expectancy, and it is not uncommon to here about individuals who purchased one or more 360 consoles to replace an older failed model. This bloated the numbers a bit, basically there wasn't really 80 million 360 gamers out there.

Xbox One X sits in no mans land. It isn't a real next generation console, but a 4K Xbox One. Yes, it offers some other benefits such as holding tighter to its target framerate compared to the base model, but it no way shape or form is this model taking 30fps games to 60fps. Sony does have their own answer to the X with the PS4 Pro, and while it may not have the same level of performance, it does come with a lower price tag. Outside of your hardcore Xbox fans who are eager to purchase a superior piece of hardware, I do not see your average consumer choosing the most expensive console on the market to game on. Most early adopters will come from within the already established Xbox One userbase. This isn't growing your market, but selling another product to the already established Xbox One userbase.

I believe Microsoft would have been better served waiting a bit longer and releasing a true next generation Xbox console. Xbox One X could theoretically remain the same, but be marketed as a next generation console, but that isn't how they are marketing it at all. If they had rolled out the Xbox One X as an entirely new platform with a few exclusives to the X model, probably best to drop the One and simply be the Xbox X, this would have allowed Microsoft to market it much more effectively.
 

MANGANian

Megalomaniacal Robo-Zombie
#4
Microsoft just doesn't stand out, and it doesn't seem like they want to. As much as I didn't think twice about the X360, Microsoft actually did try with it. I'd argue that the only time the brand wasn't considered as a side project was when the original XboX was a thing up until half the lifetime of the X360. Every future generation later, it looks like Microsoft is trying to brand the console as an eco-system among their other products than just a gaming console, where it's considered an option than a stand-alone experience. Windows 10 is currently cannibalising the Xbone, and it shows you where the priorities are.

What I believe Microsoft should do is shelf every single one of their old IPs, particularly Halo and Fable, and instead re-brand themselves around brand new ones like Sunset Overdrive and Ori. Halo is no longer a well-known title, and Fable should instead be given to a new director and development team, as Peter Molyneux no longer knows where to take his series and he has a very bad relationship with it.

Microsoft has heavily relied on Halo and Gears of War to sell consoles so much that they feel it's all they can do, which is why they should also shelf the "dude-bro" marketing they had since the X360. Nintendo can manage to rely on certain IPs because they limit the number of sequels they have for consoles over the span of years, and because of the nature of games like Mario and Zelda allow ideas for spin-off titles and has a wide range of appeal.

There isn't much you can do with gritty IPs like Halo and Gears as they can only spread themselves so thin, so an IP which can also allow room for genre-exploration (i.e: spin-offs) is more ideal for a mascot IP.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#5
I believe Microsoft Co is not excited about Xbox anymore and the Xbox division is trying to cope by themselves. I see the overall strategy like: "Just make PC-like console and wait for customers and put the game on Windows too just in case".

Since the new Microsoft president, Xbox stopped shining somehow and we still don't have enough data about overall Xbox division income as far as I know. The exclusive lineup seems uninspired and we have no other reasons for those cancelled games but either lack of interest or poor executive decisions imo.

NS success is just a new hit that they weren't expecting.

I think the path for Microsoft will be them keep trying to be the second to PS and developing games like Forza to release for both Xbox and PC in this "just in case" approach. I don't see Microsoft killing or selling Xbox, but I can see them let it there to die somehow, even though it wouldn't die easily at all, because it's still a strong competitor in the market.

Besides Microsoft is somehow reorganising themselves and downsizing a little bit. Windows and Office aren't doing very well as a decade ago and the mobile division went down the pan. They surely need to refocus and get rid of the excess of fat in products and get across a new vision of what Microsoft is in the current device market. In the meantime, Xbox will struggle inside the corporation imo, except if it truly starts shining like PS division have among Sony Co divisions.
I wish Nintendo Enthusiast has sad reacts, but this applies.

I grew up on the OG Xbox and I still collect OG Xbox and 360 games.

I'll purchase an X if I see more good BC support, but a lot of my favorite games still haven't been added yet (will elaborate further).
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#6
Microsoft just doesn't stand out, and it doesn't seem like they want to. As much as I didn't think twice about the X360, Microsoft actually did try with it. I'd argue that the only time the brand wasn't considered as a side project was when the original XboX was a thing up until half the lifetime of the X360. Every future generation later, it looks like Microsoft is trying to brand the console as an eco-system among their other products than just a gaming console, where it's considered an option than a stand-alone experience. Windows 10 is currently cannibalising the Xbone, and it shows you where the priorities are.

What I believe Microsoft should do is shelf every single one of their old IPs, particularly Halo and Fable, and instead re-brand themselves around brand new ones like Sunset Overdrive and Ori. Halo is no longer a well-known title, and Fable should instead be given to a new director and development team, as Peter Molyneux no longer knows where to take his series and he has a very bad relationship with it.

Microsoft has heavily relied on Halo and Gears of War to sell consoles so much that they feel it's all they can do, which is why they should also shelf the "dude-bro" marketing they had since the X360. Nintendo can manage to rely on certain IPs because they limit the number of sequels they have for consoles over the span of years, and because of the nature of games like Mario and Zelda allow ideas for spin-off titles and has a wide range of appeal.

There isn't much you can do with gritty IPs like Halo and Gears as they can only spread themselves so thin, so an IP which can also allow room for genre-exploration (i.e: spin-offs) is more ideal for a mascot IP.
Seeing Gears of War going from the game that defined the 7th generation of console gaming (no, Wii Sports didn't define anything, expect for the popularity of shovelware) to having lackluster sales with 4 pains me to see. Not only is 4 the best in the series, but it's the most technically brilliant UE4 game and one of the most well optimized titles this generation. It makes most other games look lazy as fuck in comparison.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#7
The problem I see with Microsoft is that they are almost entirely limited to the hardware segment of the videogame market. Once things went south with the initial rollout of the Xbox One platform, $100 more expensive than its primary competitor and offered inferior levels of performance, how were they going to counter this dilemma? They simply do not have the software to resolve the short comings of their platform. Even with the software that they do have, most of it is little more than technical evolution of games they offered for over a decade now. I do not believe that Forza becomes a system seller with the addition of real time weather effects, most gamers aren't aware of the difference. The bottom line is that Microsoft doesn't have the exclusives to drive more consumers to their platform, and that doesn't look to change any time soon.

Xbox 360 may have been an anomaly. Microsoft was able to launch a year earlier than the PS3, and was $200 cheaper. The 360 also enjoyed a vastly superior exclusive library. Even games like Gears of War, that game floored a lot of people on the 360, and it would be pretty tough for the fourth game of the series to have the same impact. The luster for Halo has been reduced to a far more niche audience. Halo was king of the hill on console shooters for a period of time, and that hasn't been the case for many years now. The 360 also had a terrible 5 year life expectancy, and it is not uncommon to here about individuals who purchased one or more 360 consoles to replace an older failed model. This bloated the numbers a bit, basically there wasn't really 80 million 360 gamers out there.

Xbox One X sits in no mans land. It isn't a real next generation console, but a 4K Xbox One. Yes, it offers some other benefits such as holding tighter to its target framerate compared to the base model, but it no way shape or form is this model taking 30fps games to 60fps. Sony does have their own answer to the X with the PS4 Pro, and while it may not have the same level of performance, it does come with a lower price tag. Outside of your hardcore Xbox fans who are eager to purchase a superior piece of hardware, I do not see your average consumer choosing the most expensive console on the market to game on. Most early adopters will come from within the already established Xbox One userbase. This isn't growing your market, but selling another product to the already established Xbox One userbase.

I believe Microsoft would have been better served waiting a bit longer and releasing a true next generation Xbox console. Xbox One X could theoretically remain the same, but be marketed as a next generation console, but that isn't how they are marketing it at all. If they had rolled out the Xbox One X as an entirely new platform with a few exclusives to the X model, probably best to drop the One and simply be the Xbox X, this would have allowed Microsoft to market it much more effectively.
Actually, real time weather does sell racing games. It was one of the main selling points of DriveClub, before they fucked up the launch and had to add weather in a patch. It's one of the main egotistical talking points of Slightly Mad Studios for Project C.A.R.S. The sad part is that Forza 7 doesn't have real time weather, or lighting. They use a technique where they swap lightmaps to simulate real time weather. Shadows are still pre-baked. The weather also only changes at certain points in the race. The developers were lying out of their asses the whole time, and whenever Digital Foundry questioned them about the weather, they dodged it. Oh yeah, that and they ruined the game with lootboxes.

Also, quite a few Xbox One X games have 60 FPS modes. Hitman, Gears of War 4, Rise of the Tomb Raider, The Surge, and Dynasty Warriors 9 are some. Also, while it technically isn't "next gen," it's more future proof than you think. I already broke down the myth of the CPU in another thread. It's also the most pre-ordered console ever. The console isn't the problem, the console is great and it's probably the most feature packed console ever. It supports FreeSync and Dolby Atmos, forces downsampling at a hardware level for games targeting high resolutions (Sony really fucked up on this one), has a 4k Blu-Ray player, supports 1440p monitors, and forces 16x anisotropic filtering, triple buffer v-sync, and higher resolutions (if the resolution is adaptive) on backwards compatible games in addition to overhauling performance (see: Bayonetta). Once my Xbox and 360 backlog comes to the Xbox One X, I'll pick one up.

Everything you said is on point though. As an Xbox fan, Microsoft duping the Xbox One launch pains me as it is still affecting them to this day. Sony basically built the PS4 from the ground up to hit 1080p per developer requirements, whereas Microsoft really let their ego go ("720p and 900p upscaled to 1080p is still 1080p"). The widespread abandonment of forward rendering adoption of deferred rendering hurt them even more since their eSRAM pretty much guaranteed that games would never hit 1080p, even with freed up GPU resources, save for last gen ports like Need for Speed: Rivals. Games that attempted to hit 1080p fell way short of their PS4 counterparts. Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition, Sniper Elite III, and Murdered: Soul Suspect ran at almost half the framerate, Diablo III had performance issues after the 1080p patch, and Grand Theft Auto V still drops frames hard on the Xbox One (the PS4 is locked at 30 FPS now, and only really "drops" frames as a result of one off streaming stutters) even after multiple patches.

The performance saving aspects of switching to forward rendering for the Xbox One really cannot be understated. Forza Horizon 3 runs at 1080p with 4xAA and is one of the few console games to use voxel based GI, Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare and Modern Warfare Remastered run at 1080p (horizontally in Advanced Warfare's case) and at a solid 60 FPS, and the Outlast games are also buttery smooth. GPU compute also plays a huge role, hence why titles like Gears of War 4 and Rise of the Tomb Raider were able to hit 1080p.
 
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mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#8
Seeing Gears of War going from the game that defined the 7th generation of console gaming (no, Wii Sports didn't define anything, expect for the popularity of shovelware) to having lackluster sales with 4 pains me to see. Not only is 4 the best in the series, but it's the most technically brilliant UE4 game and one of the most well optimized titles this generation. It makes most other games look lazy as fuck in comparison.
WiiSport defined the Wii! The Wii was a must have because of WiiSports.

I would go so far to say that WiiSports is the greatest selling game of all time with over 100 million copies sold. It has been one of the greatest one hit wonder games the video game industry has ever seen.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#9
WiiSport defined the Wii! The Wii was a must have because of WiiSports.

I would go so far to say that WiiSports is the greatest selling game of all time with over 100 million copies sold. It has been one of the greatest one hit wonder games the video game industry has ever seen.
The actual game itself was boring as hell and popularized a whole new era of shovelware mini game Wii releases, it's sole purpose was to show off motion controls. The only reason it was a "must have" is because it was nigh impossible to get a Wii without it being bundled. Wii Sports Resort was actually fun on the other hand.

Wii Sports is the video game equivalent to elevator music. The fact that it would sell more than a masterpiece like No More Heroes proves there is no god.

I just realized how edgy and angst ridden that sounds.
 
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mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#10
The actual game itself was boring as hell and popularized a whole new era of shovelware mini game Wii releases, it's sole purpose was to show off motion controls. The only reason it was a "must have" is because it was nigh impossible to get a Wii without it being bundled. Wii Sports Resort was actually fun on the other hand.

Wii Sports is the video game equivalent to elevator music. The fact that it would sell more than a masterpiece like No More Heroes proves there is no god.
Oh Gamez this level of rehabilitation it’s near impossible, if ever seen before.

:mcry:
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#12
Microsoft just doesn't stand out, and it doesn't seem like they want to. As much as I didn't think twice about the X360, Microsoft actually did try with it. I'd argue that the only time the brand wasn't considered as a side project was when the original XboX was a thing up until half the lifetime of the X360. Every future generation later, it looks like Microsoft is trying to brand the console as an eco-system among their other products than just a gaming console, where it's considered an option than a stand-alone experience. Windows 10 is currently cannibalising the Xbone, and it shows you where the priorities are.

What I believe Microsoft should do is shelf every single one of their old IPs, particularly Halo and Fable, and instead re-brand themselves around brand new ones like Sunset Overdrive and Ori. Halo is no longer a well-known title, and Fable should instead be given to a new director and development team, as Peter Molyneux no longer knows where to take his series and he has a very bad relationship with it.

Microsoft has heavily relied on Halo and Gears of War to sell consoles so much that they feel it's all they can do, which is why they should also shelf the "dude-bro" marketing they had since the X360. Nintendo can manage to rely on certain IPs because they limit the number of sequels they have for consoles over the span of years, and because of the nature of games like Mario and Zelda allow ideas for spin-off titles and has a wide range of appeal.

There isn't much you can do with gritty IPs like Halo and Gears as they can only spread themselves so thin, so an IP which can also allow room for genre-exploration (i.e: spin-offs) is more ideal for a mascot IP.
>Halo
>Gritty
Pick one. The only reason previous Halo games were even rated M is because of the Flood, and that one scene in Halo 4 where people melt.

Also, Gears does have spin-off potential. I, for one, would love to see a tactical RPG or RTS (think Dawn of War 1 & 2) in the Gears universe.
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
#13
I wouldn't say WiiSports was boring. It made my mum play a video game, which is an extraordinary thing ... and the first time I saw people playing that I was delighted.. it was just incredible.. I played it a lot and of course it was just a mini game in the end, but it was still impressive.

PS: Wii U was also impressive though. I remember when I saw the concept of a controller with a screen and I thought about so many possibilities... I don't know how and when Wii U game pad just got weird and somehow useless.
 

MANGANian

Megalomaniacal Robo-Zombie
#14
>Halo
>Gritty
Pick one. The only reason previous Halo games were even rated M is because of the Flood, and that one scene in Halo 4 where people melt.

Also, Gears does have spin-off potential. I, for one, would love to see a tactical RPG or RTS (think Dawn of War 1 & 2) in the Gears universe.
Halo is marketed as a gritty game. That was my point.

As for my other point about spin-offs. I didn't mention that a spin-off can't be made, but rather there are very few options they can venture into because of its premise. Mario can venture into whatever it wants because it doesn't take itself seriously. Gears with its aesthetic can't just make a party game of itself. I'm not saying it can't be done, as I already have some ideas as to how a few of them can be done, but it'd be very niche to the point where it couldn't be justified from a business point of view.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#15
Halo is marketed as a gritty game. That was my point.

As for my other point about spin-offs. I didn't mention that a spin-off can't be made, but rather there are very few options they can venture into because of its premise. Mario can venture into whatever it wants because it doesn't take itself seriously. Gears with its aesthetic can't just make a party game of itself. I'm not saying it can't be done, as I already have some ideas as to how a few of them can be done, but it'd be very niche to the point where it couldn't be justified from a business point of view.
Have party games even been selling exceptionally well in the last couple of years? Besides that, they don't have longevity appeal, often get bad reviews, etc. Microsoft attempted to branch out into the party game market with Kinect and titles like Kinect Star Wars, which were heavily marketed, but it failed miserably and almost killed the Xbox One initially.

Also, Microsoft has other party game franchises they could reboot. Fusion Frenzy is one such example.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#16
I believe Microsoft Co is not excited about Xbox anymore and the Xbox division is trying to cope by themselves. I see the overall strategy like: "Just make PC-like console and wait for customers and put the game on Windows too just in case".

Since the new Microsoft president, Xbox stopped shining somehow and we still don't have enough data about overall Xbox division income as far as I know. The exclusive lineup seems uninspired and we have no other reasons for those cancelled games but either lack of interest or poor executive decisions imo.

NS success is just a new hit that they weren't expecting.

I think the path for Microsoft will be them keep trying to be the second to PS and developing games like Forza to release for both Xbox and PC in this "just in case" approach. I don't see Microsoft killing or selling Xbox, but I can see them let it there to die somehow, even though it wouldn't die easily at all, because it's still a strong competitor in the market.

Besides Microsoft is somehow reorganising themselves and downsizing a little bit. Windows and Office aren't doing very well as a decade ago and the mobile division went down the pan. They surely need to refocus and get rid of the excess of fat in products and get across a new vision of what Microsoft is in the current device market. In the meantime, Xbox will struggle inside the corporation imo, except if it truly starts shining like PS division have among Sony Co divisions.
They need a boardroom coup.
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
#17
Late to the party, but did anyone care about the Xbox brand outside of Microsoft

Playstation had built up a style

Nintendo is basically the Willy Wonka of games

But Xbox?

Sure you can get good games on it, but the brand? Would anyone care if they changed it to MZone tomorrow, or if they went 3rd party, or if the mint division was bought out and absorbed into steam or Playstation?

Would there be a longing for the good old days like with Sega?

I don't think so, in fact, I think if Sony bought their IPs and announced Halo as a launch title for ps5, more people would be excited than if Ms announced a new Xbox console.
 

MANGANian

Megalomaniacal Robo-Zombie
#18
Have party games even been selling exceptionally well in the last couple of years? Besides that, they don't have longevity appeal, often get bad reviews, etc. Microsoft attempted to branch out into the party game market with Kinect and titles like Kinect Star Wars, which were heavily marketed, but it failed miserably and almost killed the Xbox One initially.

Also, Microsoft has other party game franchises they could reboot. Fusion Frenzy is one such example.
It doesn't have to be a party game. It just has to have the feeling of an identity and actually be good.

Kinect has a whole lot of reasons why it failed horribly. Smash Bros and Mario Kart are from different genre but they are also considered party games. The games made for Kinect never had any significant thought put into their identities.

Sunset Overdrive was a step in the right direction...... in which Microsoft then decided to drop the ball by never having any mention of the IP again. Scalebound was cancelled too. Not saying that Gears and Halo doesn't have an identity, but they're part of an already over-saturated genre, that you wouldn't think twice about their existence.
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
#19
I think the good point about XBox existing is the fact the we have a 3rd key player in the market. In fact I'd love to see a 4th player, to keep the market more competitive.
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
#20
I think the good point about XBox existing is the fact the we have a 3rd key player in the market. In fact I'd love to see a 4th player, to keep the market more competitive.
but that has nothing to do with the brand, just that something, anything, is in the race....

if Amazon bought out microsoft's console division and renamed it SquirelFucker9000 and changed EVERYTHING about the brand, but still had the same multiplats while selling the 1st party licenses off to various publishers... hell it would probably improve the market

that is my point, the xbox brand is meaningless, unlike Nintendo, and to a lesser extent, playstation
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
#21
Yes, sure.. Xbox still looks somehow like vanilla video game for me, they never found something that could set them apart.. really... I wasn't disagreeing with you, just having another point of view about Xbox in the market.
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
#22
Yes, sure.. Xbox still looks somehow like vanilla video game for me, they never found something that could set them apart.. really... I wasn't disagreeing with you, just having another point of view about Xbox in the market.
I like to think that something else would fill the void if MS bailed (which they won't, it is still a highly profitable business). Like valve.

Also, I think Amazon has been looking for an in.
 

Zero

Mmm... DONUTS!
#23
I don't really want an Xbox One, but I may get an S soon simply because I have a 4K TV now and want something that plays 4K discs (Sony really dropped the ball on that). An Xbox One S isn't much more than a decent 4K player. When and if I get one, I'll play Cuphead, Ori and the Blind Forest, Sunset Overdrive and Crimson Dragon (I know it's not very good but I'm a diehard Panzer Dragoon fan)... Literally can't think of anything else I want to play on that console.
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
#24
I don't really want an Xbox One, but I may get an S soon simply because I have a 4K TV now and want something that plays 4K discs (Sony really dropped the ball on that). An Xbox One S isn't much more than a decent 4K player. When and if I get one, I'll play Cuphead, Ori and the Blind Forest, Sunset Overdrive and Crimson Dragon (I know it's not very good but I'm a diehard Panzer Dragoon fan)... Literally can't think of anything else I want to play on that console.
Sony made a mistake.

Sony forgets that people do collect movies and series and someday I'll have a 4k collection of that and I'll want a 4k to play and replay my favourite stuff.
 

Zero

Mmm... DONUTS!
#25
Sony made a mistake.

Sony forgets that people do collect movies and series and someday I'll have a 4k collection of that and I'll want a 4k to play and replay my favourite stuff.
Yep. Hopefully they realize it was a big misstep and incorporate a 4k player into the PS5 (or whatever the nex iteration of the PS4 is called).
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#26
Yep. Hopefully they realize it was a big misstep and incorporate a 4k player into the PS5 (or whatever the nex iteration of the PS4 is called).
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnar...ve-the-mistake-sony-had-to-make/#57c7b9f87da9
According to this one person on Forbes, Sony didn't do it because they couldn't use their own UHD Blu-Ray drive because it was launched later.

Which makes me think: what the hell were they thinking? If they were launching a 4k console, why wouldn't they develop an UHD Blu-Ray player alongside it? Either way, the only reason I still have my Pro is for exclusives at this point. It's been underwhelming if I'm being honest.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#27
I don't really want an Xbox One, but I may get an S soon simply because I have a 4K TV now and want something that plays 4K discs (Sony really dropped the ball on that). An Xbox One S isn't much more than a decent 4K player. When and if I get one, I'll play Cuphead, Ori and the Blind Forest, Sunset Overdrive and Crimson Dragon (I know it's not very good but I'm a diehard Panzer Dragoon fan)... Literally can't think of anything else I want to play on that console.
It's a shame, because the 360 had a lot of kick ass exclusives. It had a crap ton of Cave shmups, a collection of Raiden Fighter Aces games and Raiden IV, and Treasure games and is, in my opinion, the best shmup console since the Sega Saturn. It also had Dead or Alive 4, Lost Odyssey, Ace Combat 6 (a game that's aged beautifully I might add), and the better versions of Devil May Cry 4 (yes, the PS3 had no tearing, but used hideous jittered frame blending "Temporal AA" aka the worst ghosting and flickering ever), Ninja Gaiden II, and Bayonetta.
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
#28
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnar...ve-the-mistake-sony-had-to-make/#57c7b9f87da9
According to this one person on Forbes, Sony didn't do it because they couldn't use their own UHD Blu-Ray drive because it was launched later.

Which makes me think: what the hell were they thinking? If they were launching a 4k console, why wouldn't they develop an UHD Blu-Ray player alongside it? Either way, the only reason I still have my Pro is for exclusives at this point. It's been underwhelming if I'm being honest.
So then maybe when I get a collection of 4k stuff, I'll buy a Xbox only for the player. Because I don't feel like buying a 4k player that is only a 4k player. It's like a phone that only make calls. Doesn't feel right.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#29
So then maybe when I get a collection of 4k stuff, I'll buy a Xbox only for the player. Because I don't feel like buying a 4k player that is only a 4k player. It's like a phone that only make calls. Doesn't feel right.
I agree. Which is why I also think that buying a new Xbox console without my old library being accessible is equally preposterous.
 

repomech

resident remnant robot relic
#30
XBox has already made its fundamental and likely lasting contribution to console gaming: everyone will henceforth be charged again for the functionality of their home internet service that they already paid for to access a mode in a game they already paid for, on a piece of hardware they already paid for.

Having served its usefulness to the wicked ancient forces in the dark recesses of our universe, it can now die.
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
#31
XBox has already made its fundamental and likely lasting contribution to console gaming: everyone will henceforth be charged again for the functionality of their home internet service that they already paid for to access a mode in a game they already paid for, on a piece of hardware they already paid for.

Having served its usefulness to the wicked ancient forces in the dark recesses of our universe, it can now die.
Are you talking about paying for online gaming? We need to start a new thread about this, I remember we had one. I've never really made up my mind about this subject.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#33
XBox has already made its fundamental and likely lasting contribution to console gaming: everyone will henceforth be charged again for the functionality of their home internet service that they already paid for to access a mode in a game they already paid for, on a piece of hardware they already paid for.

Having served its usefulness to the wicked ancient forces in the dark recesses of our universe, it can now die.
As Star Wars: Battlefront II has shown, voting with your wallet can make a difference in the free market. If people don't want to pay for online gaming, they should boycott Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft's online services and buy mid-range PCs for online games, which are cheap to build.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#34
Also, Microsoft was probably the first company to encourage softmodding for the Xbox, and even incorporated features from softmodded Xboxes into the 360. Whereas Nintendo and Sony hated it, Microsoft actually ended up hiring some talented modders. That's a good contribution to gaming.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#35
Late to the party, but did anyone care about the Xbox brand outside of Microsoft

Playstation had built up a style

Nintendo is basically the Willy Wonka of games

But Xbox?

Sure you can get good games on it, but the brand? Would anyone care if they changed it to MZone tomorrow, or if they went 3rd party, or if the mint division was bought out and absorbed into steam or Playstation?

Would there be a longing for the good old days like with Sega?

I don't think so, in fact, I think if Sony bought their IPs and announced Halo as a launch title for ps5, more people would be excited than if Ms announced a new Xbox console.
I don't care about brands since I don't care about brand loyalty. The fact is, as I've demonstrated above, they have had lots of solid IPs. Microsoft has Amped, Fable, Gears, Halo, MechAssault, Otogi, Perfect Dark (I can't go back to the N64 version after playing the XBLA remake, which is sadly the only worthwhile new installment), Phantom Dust, Project Gotham Racing, Quantum Redshift, Rallisport Challenge, Unreal Championship, Jet Set Radio Future, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Crazy Taxi 3, The House of the Dead III (although it's on Wii and PS3 now), Outrun 2, and Sega GT 2002. In addition to that, the 360 beats pretty much every Nintendo console when it comes to shoot em ups. The 360 alone had DoDonPachi, Under Defeat HD, Espgaluda, Mushihimesama, Akai Katana, Raiden IV, Raiden Fighter Aces, Ikaruga, Radiant Silvergun, Omega Five, Guwange, and Deathsmiles. That library of quality alone matches the Saturn in my opinion.

Plus, the OG Xbox supported ROMs and lots of awesome softmods, as well as supporting some games at 720p (play Freedom Fighters on GameCube and then the Xbox at 720p, night and day). It was typically the best place to play multiplats too, with exceptions like MGS2, Hot Pursuit 2, and both Silent Hill 2 & 4. Also, Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth is still best played on the Xbox due to the PC version basically being broken.

Also, Willy Wonka's tunnel had an image of a chicken getting its head cut off.
 
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