Game of Thrones discussion thread (spoilers for the series and the book material covered)

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
I thought it was a pretty good episode. Cersei screentime didn't feel like a waste of time for once, so for me that's a milestone. Prince Doran? As a TV series-only follower, I couldn't care less. The dothraki part was also a drag. The Castle Black and Devos and Melisandre stuff is ok as a setup for later episodes, I think that's my main arc to be honest, I really want to see what happens there. Arya going through yet another character development phase could be good, if they finally let her come into her own and give her agency. The Sansa and Theon arc could be fun now that Brienne and Podrick are with them. It's also good seeing Lord Varys and Tyrion together, their arc might be fun. I hope we see Bran soon, I really want to see what these possibly hivemind trees are about.
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
so I just recorded a video discussion of the episode which I'll post here when it is all done and edited...

I liked it

the bit between jaime and cersei was strangely humanizing for cersei.. I am kind of rooting for her now... just a little bit... the dialog was fantastic, about what happens to a corpse as it ages, and imagign that happening to her daughter

the dothraki stuff was kind of funny and I like how daenerys safety went hand in hand with her loss of agency..but considering the place she is being taken is the capitol of the dothraki and is LEAD by the widows of dead khals is interesting. obviously she wont be stuck there forever, and it is much more interesting than her failing at politics in mereen

tyrion and varys are one of the best pairings in the series, hilarious, insightful and so much more... I love the way varys has absolute confidence that his "birds" will find the identity of the sons of the harpy in no time... where daenerys failed in mereen tyrion and varys will fly... varys with his information network, and tyrion with his wit and strategy... it will likely be a lot like tyrion ins eason 2 when he was just wiping out coruption left and right, and it'll be fun to watch

sansa and reek meeting up with briene again was cool, and now sansa has real agency with a badass knight backing her (her first knight)... the trailers also showed briene in the riverlands (tully banners in the background) so sansa might get a whole f'n army

I also love the humbled melisandre, and how Davos is so much mroe effective working "for jon" than he was for Stannis... him answering thorne's ultimatum was f'n funny.. he was all polite and cordial, while basically implying that thorne could go fuck off

Melisandre's crisis of faith, including the catfish moment at the end is really interesting to watch too...

then there is dorne.. while the region ahs been mostly boring on the show, that shift in power took me completely by surprise, I expected it to go the opposite way when doran found out... now basically everyone with the name martell is dead... and while elleria thinks she is honoring Oberyn, she basically killed off the last of his family...

I have no love for anyone in Dorne now, I was holding out for Doran to strategically harm the throne, but thta is gone, and I think it is a good thing, it isn't necessary anymore... which also helps in giving sympathy to Cersei as she is at war with 2 shitty forces.. the faith militant and dorne... with Doran gone, and Cersei and Jaime no logner giving a fuck about keeping peace with dorne, there is no reason for the 2 groups not to have all out war... and as much as the faith miliatant was cool to give cersei some comeuppance... and as much as I hated the mountain when he killed oberyn... it'll be amazing to watch frankenmountain disassemble the faith militant.

beyond the coming war in the south, yyou have all paths set to converge in the north as well.... the wildlings, jon's buds, and davos vs the night's watch, the boltons coming to castle black for sansa, sansa possibly going to castle black to find safety with jon (she doesn't know) while briene marshals her forces elsewhere. and who else is very close to that location? oh yeah, the f'n army of white walkers who just sacked hardhome last seaosn

so on the contrary, I think there was a LOT going on

I also like that Arya is basically going to be training to be DareDragon (the westeros daredevil)

next week we get Bran's jedi training.... that might even be when we get the infamous tower of joy flashback (hasn't happened in the books, but there are scenes from it in the trailer) which could answer the question of Jon's parentage, and in doing so either reveal or crush the biggest fan theory of the entire series (that Jon Snow is actually the son of Ned's sister and Rhaegar Targaryn)... that combined with all evidence pointing towards jon being resurected is fascinating... as Jon dying has ended his vows to the night's watch, and if he is the son of Rhaegar he has a claim to the iron throne...

then you have the showrunners of the series saying that they only have about 15 episodes left in them after this season, and that tells us that some significant events are likely to occur soon... like maybe the wall coming down, or maybe daenerys finnaly coming to westeros... there is also word that walder frey may appear in this season.. which means we could get some revenge from the red wedding.

so yeah this episode had some great shocking scenes, some really cool forward momentum , and some heavy implications towards likely future events... probably the best season premeire of the entire series.... as all of the season premieres are mostly uneventful...

the biggest flaw in game of thrones IMO is that they open the seasons with regular episodes... I miss when shows like LOST opened and closed each season with a 2 hour episode... as this episode felt like it was 2 minutes long.. it flew by
 

sjmartin79

White Phoenix of the Crown
Not true about none of it being based on the books, Blind Arya was totally based on the books. They sent her out to beg and learn things in the city. Exactly what is happening here. And the scene that happened in the street is similar to the scene in the books where she was getting attacked in her bed chamber when she was blind. All about training her other senses.

And some of it we can't judge whether it was in the books or not, because it may be in the 6th book. Like any of the Jon Snow stuff.

Honestly, I enjoyed it, mainly as a setting up where the season would go for each character. The part that bothered me the most were the things from Dorne. That definitely changes the trajectory of the books.
But after enjoying True Blood - books and TV show - I realize that once again an HBO is going off script and I will have to separate the books from the TV show, just as I did with True Blood. Though there may be stories that will be the same, they will be two different entities.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
ok, so here are the TVE video impressions
http://tventhusiast.com/article/game-of-thrones-season-6-episode-01-discussion/
I worked pretty hard on it, added some humor, gave context maps, I hope you guys like it
I did just watch it while doing some work, I liked it. Since you said there pretty much what you posted here earlier, I thought it was insightful. I really liked the joke images as well, I'd say if you pepper more of those in there it can retain people's attention better. It was a good idea to structure the discussion around the different regions of Westeros, that made it easy to keep up with the different plotlines. Oh and overall I liked the sense of humor in the discussion. And as always, your voice sounds great.
 

Wolven

The Wolf of TNE Street
I thought it was a pretty good episode. Cersei screentime didn't feel like a waste of time for once, so for me that's a milestone. Prince Doran? As a TV series-only follower, I couldn't care less. The dothraki part was also a drag. The Castle Black and Devos and Melisandre stuff is ok as a setup for later episodes, I think that's my main arc to be honest, I really want to see what happens there. Arya going through yet another character development phase could be good, if they finally let her come into her own and give her agency. The Sansa and Theon arc could be fun now that Brienne and Podrick are with them. It's also good seeing Lord Varys and Tyrion together, their arc might be fun. I hope we see Bran soon, I really want to see what these possibly hivemind trees are about.
What happened with Dorne has been the biggest disappointment in the series thus far. I just hope that they wrap it up soon and end the torture honestly. Kinda sucks too, storyline had a lot of potential, but with where they are going they already kinda spoiled the role that Dorne is going to play in the end game. Like I said, none of this was book material, and I can already tell that some of it is original show material (Brienne in the north, Dorne, Varys and Tyrion, Myrcella). I can see Mel happening in the books the way it did, and I can see the wall unrolling the way it did.
Not true about none of it being based on the books, Blind Arya was totally based on the books. They sent her out to beg and learn things in the city. Exactly what is happening here. And the scene that happened in the street is similar to the scene in the books where she was getting attacked in her bed chamber when she was blind. All about training her other senses.

And some of it we can't judge whether it was in the books or not, because it may be in the 6th book. Like any of the Jon Snow stuff.

Honestly, I enjoyed it, mainly as a setting up where the season would go for each character. The part that bothered me the most were the things from Dorne. That definitely changes the trajectory of the books.
But after enjoying True Blood - books and TV show - I realize that once again an HBO is going off script and I will have to separate the books from the TV show, just as I did with True Blood. Though there may be stories that will be the same, they will be two different entities.
Oh yeah, I forgot about Arya! It's been awhile since I've read the books, did the waif beat on her like it happened there?
 

sjmartin79

White Phoenix of the Crown
@Wolven - I can't remember if it was the waif from the Temple that did it or the "kind old man" (because in the books, she didn't know at the time that her friend was the one running the temple), but if I remember correctly, the beating/training took place in the temple but while she was blind.
 

Wolven

The Wolf of TNE Street
Saw some screens from episode 2 (http://watchersonthewall.com/new-photos-game-thrones-season-6-episode-2-home/)
Here are my thoughts from it:
Edd outside? RIP the Night's Watch. And Bran in Winterfell! I bet we are going to get a flashback either a. back to season 1, or b. back to when ed was still a kid. The Yara screen makes me think that a certain person is going to die this episode too, not sure about the rest however.

And apparently episode 4 name has been leaked and its called "Book of the Stranger".
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
Whew that episode. I'm gathering my thoughts and maybe talking to my people before getting back in here with a longer response.
 

Wolven

The Wolf of TNE Street
I really liked this episode, especially that intro scene. The preview for the next episode got me hyped too. Its gonna be amazing and I am regaining my faith in the show.
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
I really liked this episode, especially that intro scene. The preview for the next episode got me hyped too. Its gonna be amazing and I am regaining my faith in the show.
what is that over your shoulder mr targaryn armored soldier? perhaps the Tower of Joy?

I imagine R+L=J gets confirmed next week
 

sjmartin79

White Phoenix of the Crown
I've been waiting for R+L=J to get confirmed!

Last night was a great episode! And with them going back to the Greyjoy storylines from Books 4 and 5 and some Arya book 5, that will help them slow down the storytelling for the others and stretch book 6 out over Seasons 6 and 7. My theory anyway.
 

sjmartin79

White Phoenix of the Crown
I think Episode 3 was more interesting, to me, than the first two. Plot moved forward, amusing scenes, some things I didn't see coming. Thoroughly enjoyed it.
 

EthanGK

The blunder from down under
Episode 3 felt good, I think they're going to chill out a bit now with the progression. I've seen so many people complain about the scene where Tyrion speaks with Missandei and Grey Worm because it wasn't vital to the plot but I enjoyed it. The first two episodes were plot, plot, plot. People are so attached to the characters that they just want to see what big things happen to them haha. I enjoy seeing characters be themselves sometimes.

I like that they're closing off the few plots that weren't up to speed with the books fairly quickly. For example Arya's blind arc lasted longer in the books, and they closed it off nice and quick in the show, gets her into place for beginning the next of her journey and none us know exactly what it is :)

Looks like they're doing the same with they Iron Islands succession arc, considering they were rather slow with getting to that death in the show.
 

thekiller7

The Seven and Only
So that's probably Lyanna in that castle giving birth to Jon Snow.
So he's probably half dragon blood and half Wolf blood.
I hope he gets to fuck Danny and they have hot ass icy fire sexx. It is the song of fire and ice after all.
 

sjmartin79

White Phoenix of the Crown
So that's probably Lyanna in that castle giving birth to Jon Snow.
So he's probably half dragon blood and half Wolf blood.
I hope he gets to fuck Danny and they have hot ass icy fire sexx. It is the song of fire and ice after all.
I've definitely been thinking Jon Snow is half Stark half Targaryan for several books now.
Now to figure out the exact reason Ned Stark lied to everyone about the lineage. I mean, there are several good reasons, but I want to know his exact reason.
Would set up very interesting dynamics for the future.
 

thekiller7

The Seven and Only
I've definitely been thinking Jon Snow is half Stark half Targaryan for several books now.
Now to figure out the exact reason Ned Stark lied to everyone about the lineage. I mean, there are several good reasons, but I want to know his exact reason.
Would set up very interesting dynamics for the future.
Too bad so sad we'll never know...
 

thekiller7

The Seven and Only
I feel like the flashbacks are filler

Unless in the Winds of Winter there are flashbacks.
But I wanna see some iron Island arguments for who takes over and
to see if they show that magic horn that's supposed to bring down the wall. Or was it to control the dragons?
And Dorne is a clusterfuck missed opportunity IMO
 

sjmartin79

White Phoenix of the Crown
In book 4 or 5 (can't remember which), the flashbacks were not used as filler. They definitely were opening up different ways for us to see the Starks. So, I'm hoping that in the Winds of Winter this continues and they reveal the big mystery. If, as the 3 Eyed Dragon said in the preview, Bran isn't meant to stay there, then I think he is to learn something big and head out to give that info to the person it regards - hopefully Jon and his true parents.

And yes, the Dorne storyline could have been handled better or done more closely to the books.
I'm interested to see what they do with the Iron Islands story, though I believe they are mainly adding that in to slow down progression of season 6 storylines.
 

sjmartin79

White Phoenix of the Crown
Yes! When I'm reading the books, and it's about Arya, Dany, Tyrion, or Brienne - I'm happy - they are my four favorites. (Even Jon Snow is more interesting in the books than he is on screen)
 

thekiller7

The Seven and Only
Brienne... I actually wish they stuck to her story from the books. But then they'd have to bring what's her face back from the dead.
Hmmmmnnnn so many differences it drives me crazy. Still a great TV show.
 

sjmartin79

White Phoenix of the Crown
There's always the rumors about Lady Stoneheart showing up in Season 6...

I think I've mentioned it before, but I had read all the True Blood books, and I had to come to terms with the fact that True Blood books were a different story then the True Blood show, and I should just be happy that I get two sets of stories for characters that I love. I'm beginning to do this with Game of Thrones as well. There are certain stories and things from the books that I'd love to see on the show, but I'm coming to terms with the fact that it most likely won't happen.
 

EthanGK

The blunder from down under
I've definitely been thinking Jon Snow is half Stark half Targaryan for several books now.
Now to figure out the exact reason Ned Stark lied to everyone about the lineage. I mean, there are several good reasons, but I want to know his exact reason.
Would set up very interesting dynamics for the future.
It's never stated outright but consider the subtext of the series and it becomes quite obvious why Jon being a Targaryen. Consider the context in which Jon would've been found if that is in fact him that Lyanna is giving birth to in the tower.
Ned is working to overthrow the mad King Aerys V. The man Ned is trying to support the claim of despises Targaryens (in fact this is the main fuel of his rebellion). Not only would Jon be the son of a Targaryen (Robert's sworn enemies) AND the son of his only true love Lyanna, but he would also be a true Targaryen heir to the throne.

Consider what was done to the other Targaryen heirs in order for Robert to be king. Rhaegar's wife Elia was raped and murdered, her baby had its head smashed against a wall. This would be Jon's fate if he was known to be a Targ heir. If Ned's sister's dying wish was for him to protect her baby, he would cop the dishonour of pretending he'd had a bastard to do so.



Also, just want to say I am glad that the writers are able to completely deviate from the books now that there's no material to work from. Season 5 wasn't very good because they were trying so hard to adapt it, when really they are doing a much better job now that they can do whatever they want so long as they fulfil certain plot points.
That Dany moment at the end of Episode 4 would never ever happen in the books, but it made for great TV!
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
It's never stated outright but consider the subtext of the series and it becomes quite obvious why Jon being a Targaryen. Consider the context in which Jon would've been found if that is in fact him that Lyanna is giving birth to in the tower.
Ned is working to overthrow the mad King Aerys V. The man Ned is trying to support the claim of despises Targaryens (in fact this is the main fuel of his rebellion). Not only would Jon be the son of a Targaryen (Robert's sworn enemies) AND the son of his only true love Lyanna, but he would also be a true Targaryen heir to the throne.

Consider what was done to the other Targaryen heirs in order for Robert to be king. Rhaegar's wife Elia was raped and murdered, her baby had its head smashed against a wall. This would be Jon's fate if he was known to be a Targ heir. If Ned's sister's dying wish was for him to protect her baby, he would cop the dishonour of pretending he'd had a bastard to do so.



Also, just want to say I am glad that the writers are able to completely deviate from the books now that there's no material to work from. Season 5 wasn't very good because they were trying so hard to adapt it, when really they are doing a much better job now that they can do whatever they want so long as they fulfil certain plot points.
That Dany moment at the end of Episode 4 would never ever happen in the books, but it made for great TV!
and lets not forget hardhome last year...
 

EthanGK

The blunder from down under
and lets not forget hardhome last year...
I have a funny feeling nobody will be forgetting hardhome any time soon. The writers really are so great at their job when they get to show what they can do.
Red wedding was an example, since that chapter of the book was so thoroughly about internal monologue they had to do things differently to capture it.
So excited to see where they go with their freedom. Their deviations normally do the different format of being on TV a lot of justice. Except for what happened to the Dorne plot, of course. That could've been handled a lot better. It's hard to believe that all came from the same writers as the rest of the show.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
Even though I've mostly liked the pacing of this season (especially as the previous season was 7 episodes of nothing before we finally got 3 plot episodes), I've felt that some scenes and plot points in these early episodes of this season have been handled without the same level of care as the better scenes of previous seasons. I definitely wouldn't put scenes like the Red Wedding, the Purple Wedding, the battle of Castle Black, or that Hardhome scene, on the same level with stuff like Daenerys' pushing the torches at the comically cowering dothraki leaders, Jon resuscitating only after everyone has left the room, Arya's Eye of the Tiger montage, or Doran getting killed like he's a Star Trek redshirt.




One of the reasons I don't watch many TV shows is because I keep encountering these kinds of contrivances and I just don't take well to them (Breaking Bad being a great exception because of how hammy and genuinely badass these contrivances are), and right now Game of Thrones is looking a lot more like a typical TV show than, well, Game of Thrones.

But I understand that the writers are only trying to quickly take the show through a number of plot points so they can set up the story they actually want to tell within the space of two and a half remaining seasons. I think the great Hardhome-like scenes are coming in the tail end of this season, and they'll be given much more care than some of these early scenes have had. That said, I expect this next episode to have more meaningful plot points than these last two for sure.
 

Wolven

The Wolf of TNE Street
So much stuff in this latest episode! How much of this stuff was new to book readers?
A good deal of it was completely unexpected. We knew about the Kingsmoot, and I am kinda struggling to think about what else honestly. The Brienne storyline is going back into book territory too. A lot of this was completely new. And I am actually really surprised as to how good it was. I almost cried at the end and I don't know why.
 

Wolven

The Wolf of TNE Street
I rewatched it. I seriously love this episode. Like past episodes there were some bad parts sprinkled in, in this one there was no 'bad' in my opinion. It seriously hit me right in the heart. It made death feel significant again in this show.
 

thekiller7

The Seven and Only
So much stuff in this latest episode! How much of this stuff was new to book readers?
All of it.
The iron island shit was the only thing slightly similar. They made it boring and where's the other uncle with the dragon horn?
A good deal of it was completely unexpected. We knew about the Kingsmoot, and I am kinda struggling to think about what else honestly. The Brienne storyline is going back into book territory too. A lot of this was completely new. And I am actually really surprised as to how good it was. I almost cried at the end and I don't know why.
Briene was killed. She never made it to the wall.
 

sjmartin79

White Phoenix of the Crown
All of it.
The iron island shit was the only thing slightly similar. They made it boring and where's the other uncle with the dragon horn?

Briene was killed. She never made it to the wall.
From what I remember, Crow's Eye (Euron) who won the King's Moot last night is the one with the Dragon Horn in the books. It just wasn't mentioned in the episode.
And as for Brienne, we don't know if she was killed or not. Her part of the book ended in a cliffhanger.
 

thekiller7

The Seven and Only
From what I remember, Crow's Eye (Euron) who won the King's Moot last night is the one with the Dragon Horn in the books. It just wasn't mentioned in the episode.
And as for Brienne, we don't know if she was killed or not. Her part of the book ended in a cliffhanger.
The whole iron island scene just seemed too sloppily put together.
Where's the fucking dragon horn? Shit was stupid if you ask me.
 

Wolven

The Wolf of TNE Street
All of it.
The iron island shit was the only thing slightly similar. They made it boring and where's the other uncle with the dragon horn?

Briene was killed. She never made it to the wall.
Brienne was never killed in the books, and I am willing to bet she never gets near the wall. What I meant with my statement was that it seems almost like the show guided her in a different direction, and then brought her back to the book direction.
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
The whole iron island scene just seemed too sloppily put together.
Where's the fucking dragon horn? Shit was stupid if you ask me.
if they do include it, wouldn't it work better on TV if he brings it out before using it, not just making comments about how he has it? Not that I like the idea of it anyways, never liked anything in stories that takes away free will.. be it of Humans or Dragons

--------------

anyways.. here is the TVE discussion of the episode
http://tventhusiast.com/article/game-of-thrones-season-6-episode-05-discussion/
 

thekiller7

The Seven and Only
if they do include it, wouldn't it work better on TV if he brings it out before using it, not just making comments about how he has it? Not that I like the idea of it anyways, never liked anything in stories that takes away free will.. be it of Humans or Dragons

--------------

anyways.. here is the TVE discussion of the episode
http://tventhusiast.com/article/game-of-thrones-season-6-episode-05-discussion/
It just seemed stupid to me.
All a sudden they're discussing like in the books who will rule the iron islands. I was hoping the other uncle shows up and then all a sudden Theon and his sister and their crew are scurrying away while the guy is crowned and he's like let's build some ships.
So I guess they'll be building ships for the rest of the season.
 
Top