Getting Ready for Donkey Kong

Juegos

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I would definitely take Donkey Kong 64-2. Begrudgingly, because I want to see Retro making an awesome (but original) world with cool lore like they did with the Primes (and then run with it all the way); but I'd take it in a heartbeat. Why? Because there aren't many people making cool 3D Platformers these days, especially of the collectathon-exploration variety. Even Nintendo, since Mario Galaxy, has moved away from that type of design and more into obstacle courses.
So, if Retro announced that they were making a new 3D Donkey Kong that was more similar to Super Mario Sunshine and Conker's Bad Fur Day than to Super Mario 3D World, I'd be ok with it.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
Y'all are blowing my mind with the want of a 3DDK, you all surprise me. ITS ALL ABOUT WHAT YALL WANT ISNT IT YOU SELFISH LITTLE PIGS :mad:) :mad:) :mad:)

For shame
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
Oh and ET wanting a 2D Metroid. WHAT HAPPENED TO NO MORE 2D IM BURNED OUT!?!

True colors people, I see them, I'm always watching, watching, watching, watching.

What's next GT comes in wanting or not minding a 3rd DK aswell!?! WHATS THIS WORLD COMING TOO???
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
I havent read any reviews for DKC TF so my opinions are 100% my own. Like I said, I dont view it as a bad game, I just view it as a waste of one of Nintendo's elite development teams. If you love this game to no end, then of course your not going to agree with that assessment. The Metroid Prime series is one of my favorite in gaming history. Im not a big Metroid fan, I am a huge Prime fan. Yes my expectations are very high for them. Why shouldnt they be, should Sony gamers not have high expectations for Naughty Dog. We definitely dont rock the same wave length, you and I are both Nintendo fans, but we seem to be worlds apart on our views of Nintendo right now. I honestly dont have anything against you personally, but it seems like our opinions have been like oil and water, and dont mix for shit.
Long as we understand each other XD


Lol it weirded me out a couple weeks a go made a post about something on the WiiU sales thread and it sounded like you were quoting EDGE verbatim.

I dont read Edge magazine or go to their website. But that is a perfect example of you writing off my opinion as if I have been brain washed by a website or magazine. That's why I struggle with your responses, if I say something critical you automatically assume that its actually someone else's opinion that is only being made with intent to slander Nintendo and the Wii U. There is plenty of of bashing and slandering the Wii U going on from haters who love to see Nintendo and the Wii U struggle, but just because some of those comments are made with ill intent, doesnt mean they are completely fabricated. I have been gaming with Nintendo since 1989. I have seen Nintendo salvage bad situations before, but the picture being painted isnt to pretty right now. DKC TF being a good game or not wont change the fact that its not selling hardware, and Nintendo desperately needs compelling software to move hardware. Not even for third party support at this point, that ship has sailed, but for its own future titles and the health of their company.
The WiiU's in a bad situation, Nintendo isnt.Only thing they need to do is keep pushing software and selling more 3DS's outside of the country. People are always concerned about their relevancy or some shit or another. Im pretty dead to the whole situation. Nintendo lives and dies by their own actions. No one else. Its the nature of their business, but I like the sounds of their gameplan, so Im not worried.

Look Nintendo's lineup dances. It will keep dancing. Like Saherzad. Im not gonna bregrudge DK for not selling enough "hardware" The games Nintendo's been releasing are cracks in the dam. SM3DW was a big knock, MK8 will be the next.

Im not dismissing your opinion either, Im questioning you to expand upon your own opinions and explain them. For the sakes of others. I cant help what it sounds like to me.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
How awesome would a 3D DKC game be.......Matty.... :)>-
Oh how the tables turn so fast. All y'all being excited for another DK like I was for TF. Then I'm not feeling a DK3D and y'all are stocked. Yep shoes and feet whatnots
 
If they did do DK 64 2 it'll be Retro's version of it.
Rare's DKC and Retro's DKC are different, there's no reason to believe that Retro's DK64 would be just a copy.
 

Superfakerbros

ECE 2018
Moderator
If they did do DK 64 2 it'll be Retro's version of it.
Rare's DKC and Retro's DKC are different, there's no reason to believe that Retro's DK64 would be just a copy.
It probably wouldn't but they'd share the same core gameplay, much like 64, Sunshine, Galaxy, and the 3D series do, and it's one that I'm just not a fan of
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
Oh no, please no Donkey Kong 64 2. It's one of the few Rare games where I just said "Fuck it, I have other games to play"
You know what, thinking back on it, I think the reason so many people were put off by DK64 was because of how extreme it was with its collectathon aspect. The PS1-N64 era was overtaken by 3D platforming collectathons, and Donkey Kong 64 was the straw that broke the camel's back. I think the collectathon genre fatigue being so bad explains why Conker's Bad Fur Day, being a parody of collectathon 3D platformers, was so well-received by critics and critical gamers.
I'll go ahead and make a prediction right now. I think that throughout this coming generation we're going to see the second death of pure platformers, followed by a short revival of the 3D collectathon, which will also die promptly out of genre fatigue after a few successful games.
It's a lot like the 80s revival the music industry is going through (and it's probably all related at a cultural level). After a few years of getting ceaseless 80s-like music and one-hit-wonder bands, plenty of people are just sick to death of 80s revival music (not me, I still have a year or so to go), and already there have been "90s revival" trends and bands showing up in many new bands. Grunge is making a sort-of comeback, at least in spirit, as is the MTVs brand of R&B, but it will be only a few years before people remember why they got tired of the stuff to begin with.
That's why Metroid can never be truly dragged into these conversations. Metroid is much like Radiohead, or the Flaming Lips, or the Beatles, or whatever other highly experimental-but-with-staying-power band you can think of: every new album and game is very different from the last, and while you can always see an incremental use of past techniques in new ways, the result is that each product feels fresh and unique.
 

Juegos

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Moderator
With that in mind, I think it does make my acceptance of a new DK 64-like game weird. I'm accepting the death of a tired throwback for another throwback that will be just as short-lived, if not more.
So you know what, fuck all this throwback shit. I want Retro to stop doing throwbacks and revivals, and start doing something awesome and new like we all know they can. I want them to make an original and very awesome blend of genres that hasn't been run into the ground yet. An FPS-RPG, or a Zeldavania, or Another M, or whatever else. If they still have the creativity of old in them, then they should start putting it to great use instead of merely relegating it back to figuring out how many ways a barrel can blast you from a sidescroller section into another.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
Oh and ET wanting a 2D Metroid. WHAT HAPPENED TO NO MORE 2D IM BURNED OUT!?!
I don't recall that happening, because I don't recall saying that (maybe majico did earlier? if I did, I was mistaken, because there's obviously a lot of 2D games I like). I've said that I have a big backlog of 2D platformers that I could buy for cheaper, and that I would've bought DKC:TF at full price if it rang my bell. And I'm a cheapskate to begin with, so it's not like I buy many things at full price, anyways. :p
 

Superfakerbros

ECE 2018
Moderator
Oh no, please no Donkey Kong 64 2. It's one of the few Rare games where I just said "Fuck it, I have other games to play"
You know what, thinking back on it, I think the reason so many people were put off by DK64 was because of how extreme it was with its collectathon aspect. The PS1-N64 era was overtaken by 3D platforming collectathons, and Donkey Kong 64 was the straw that broke the camel's back. I think the collectathon genre fatigue being so bad explains why Conker's Bad Fur Day, being a parody of collectathon 3D platformers, was so well-received by critics and critical gamers.
I'll go ahead and make a prediction right now. I think that throughout this coming generation we're going to see the second death of pure platformers, followed by a short revival of the 3D collectathon, which will also die promptly out of genre fatigue after a few successful games
There is that but, for me personally, I was never really a fan of the 3D collectathon platformers. It's one of the reasons why I only tolerated games like Banjo Kazooie. However, that would likely explain why Conker's Bad Fur Day was as well received as it was. Personally, I never thought it was anything truly amazing but it was definitely something unique in it's genre
Well, if that happens, I'll be here to see people complaining about there being too many 3D collectathon platformers
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
Oh they have creativity to burn, see DK:TF
I will take this and make it the concluding paragraph of the article I want to write about it (calling dibs before @Jacesonnall even thinks about pocketing it).
"And if Retro's creativity ever comes into question, there is no need to look further than their latest outing, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze. Retro Studios' designers have a tremendous creativity taking the form of many surprising platforming elements, and is channeled into the specific mood and theme that each level portrays. The result is what is being called "the pinnacle of 2D platforming" by some [I think our reviewer did]. But I believe this boundless creativity can be used for more than embellishing tried-and-true gaming forms. Retro Studios has the talent to make completely new forms of gaming that can blow our minds for decades, much like they did by making Metroid Prime the very first game of its kind; I believe it's time they use this talent to once again "upend the tea table"."
 

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
I'm loving the 2D platform goodness.... I remember a time when like 60% of Nintendo's library was nothing but platformers.... Nintendo consoles and platformers are like peas and carrots or PB & J.... They just go together....
If you think about it some of the best 2D platform games of all time have been released just in the past decade on Nintendo consoles.... But the platform genre is probably more underappriciated now than ever before.... I mean.... What does that say about gamers and platformers in general...?
It says to me that the platformer is here to stay whether we like it or not, as it is in my eyes just as improtant a genre as any other availible at this current time.... But it also says that the platformer is still relevant, even today....
Even after years and years of being overlooked as a genre by teh gaming press, devs, pubs and gamers alike, except in a few cases like Nintendo's.... Nintendo still make and help make some of the best platform games availible....
Since the successful arcade scene of the early 80's, Nintendo has used the platform game as an integral part, a pillar, of its overall game development strategy over the lifetime of the company as we know it today....
The original Donkey Kong arcade game was indeed a platform game....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey_Kong_(video_game)
>Now think about that for a sec.... Nintendo has been making great platform games since what, 1981...? That's a long time to be making platform games of the kind of quality with which we are used to when it comes to Nintendo, then and now....
Long enough to hone that skill to near perfection....
It's hard for me to think about a Nintendo console or handheld that isn't full of platform games now and forever until Nintendo seriously doesn't exist.... That's what it's going to take for Nintendo not to bank on platform games, Nintendo will have to have magically vanished from teh face of teh Urf....
Seriously.... Like fucking gone.... Cause as long as they are around, so shall the platform game live on.... And in its best form.... Its final form....

Nintendo.... Now you're playing with platformers....
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
Having taken on that mentality of finding out whether Retro does show that much creativity throughout DKC:TF, I felt motivated enough to push myself to finish the game. I was not in the right mindset for getting the 100% or even unlocking all the levels, unlike I normally do, but I did get to see the end credits.
The game definitely has that Retro Studios spark within it. The artists are amazing, and the dynamic quality of the levels (structures breaking and collapsing left and right, platforms rising, particles floating by, and so on) is the kind of stuff that can be compared to Pixar's work in movie animation. And there are a million ways in which the levels express the themes, so that each level feels almost alive.
I felt like a machine while pushing myself to play the game (after I had decided to drop it), but I absolutely admire the level of craft and creativity that was put into the game. I feel about the game just about the same as I feel about Super Mario 3D World, except 3D World I was able to enjoy more due to its template not being so used (previously appearing pretty much only on Other M and Super Mario 3D Land): I am not the audience for these games, but that doesn't stop me from appreciating that they have passion poured into them like no other game out there currently has, and that the kids growing up with these games have it a million times better than we did back then with Super Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario 3D World.
Seeing that they do have the creativity of old (if not more) has only made me feel more depressed about not seeing such creativity put towards the same goal that such creativity was put to back with Metroid Prime: to make a game that was the first of its kind, and that could flip players' expectations of not just a franchise, but of gaming genres, on their head.
Matt came in before saying "so it's all about what you want". First of all, yes it is, as it is with everyone else. But secondly, the problem for me is that there are very few other developers with the abilities that Retro Studios has. In fact, five fingers is all I need to count them: FromSoftware of Dark Souls, MonolithSoft of Xenoblade, Valve of Half-Life, Nintendo SPD1 with Metroid, and Nintendo EAD's Zelda team. I would also throw in the Dragon's Dogma team, if there was any kind of certainty about them continuing that kind of game design in the future. Outside of these, gaming is a tedious tangle of amateur game design, retreads into past glories, and focus-tested "entertainment experiences" whose purpose is nothing but to create value for investors.
So yeah, even if DKC:TF is such a well made game that displays admirable skill and creativity, it upsets me to not see (for now) Retro making the sort of groundbreaking stuff they were first and foremost known for.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
I think what got to me so much was that like Jeug I feel there is a limited number of developers who can create certain experiences that really blow you away. I have come to realize that I really love adventure games, and even story and character progression are more important to me these days. This may sound weird, but you guys will get it because your really into games, but there are "games", and then there are experiences. There is a different feeling when you finished a Zelda game for example. Its sort of sad when its all over, even with Nintendos more limited story telling by today's standards, you still really care about the characters and the events that transpired. There is that sense of adventure. There is a progression of events, what you did early in the game feels so long ago, but is so prevalent to the final outcome. There is certainly a sense of accomplishment in 2d platformers, but it feels a lot different. For me, I guess I really love a good adventure game, and Zelda and Metroid have given that to me for the previous two generations. I got to play Zelda TP right away when I got my Wii, and then Metroid Prime Corruption not to long after, followed up by the Prime Trilogy and then of course Zelda Skyward Sword. Other than Mass Effect 3, I havent had a new "adventure" experience in quite a while, and knowing that in the past Retro created three of my favorite games of all time that meet this criteria, I was disappointed that they chose to do two platformers in a row.

I too see the polish in DKC TF, and like I said its not a bad game, not by a long shot, but I was simply never that excited for it. I bought it day one hoping to love it, but that just didnt happen.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
I think what got to me so much was that like Jeug I feel there is a limited number of developers who can create certain experiences that really blow you away. I have come to realize that I really love adventure games, and even story and character progression are more important to me these days. This may sound weird, but you guys will get it because your really into games, but there are "games", and then there are experiences. There is a different feeling when you finished a Zelda game for example. Its sort of sad when its all over, even with Nintendos more limited story telling by today's standards, you still really care about the characters and the events that transpired. There is that sense of adventure. There is a progression of events, what you did early in the game feels so long ago, but is so prevalent to the final outcome. There is certainly a sense of accomplishment in 2d platformers, but it feels a lot different. For me, I guess I really love a good adventure game, and Zelda and Metroid have given that to me for the previous two generations. I got to play Zelda TP right away when I got my Wii, and then Metroid Prime Corruption not to long after, followed up by the Prime Trilogy and then of course Zelda Skyward Sword. Other than Mass Effect 3, I havent had a new "adventure" experience in quite a while, and knowing that in the past Retro created three of my favorite games of all time that meet this criteria, I was disappointed that they chose to do two platformers in a row.

I too see the polish in DKC TF, and like I said its not a bad game, not by a long shot, but I was simply never that excited for it. I bought it day one hoping to love it, but that just didnt happen.
 
I feel the same exact way. If Nintendo gave Zelda the same exact treatment their giving Metroid now, I'd probably be as sour as you are now, but we got WWHD and Zelda Wii U is going to be at E3 2014, so I can wait because I at least know the game is coming and it's already sounding like it's going to be large scale (hell the mere tech demo blew me away).
I know some of you guys don't feel the same way, but in addition to adventure games, games like Smash and Kart are huge reasons why I play Nintendo. These franchises are largely competitive and get more epic by the edition. If instead of Smash and Kart Nintendo was releasing a new Metroid and a new Zelda (and there was no word of another smash and kart), I'd be equally as disappointed.
 
I think what got to me so much was that like Jeug I feel there is a limited number of developers who can create certain experiences that really blow you away. I have come to realize that I really love adventure games, and even story and character progression are more important to me these days. This may sound weird, but you guys will get it because your really into games, but there are "games", and then there are experiences. There is a different feeling when you finished a Zelda game for example. Its sort of sad when its all over, even with Nintendos more limited story telling by today's standards, you still really care about the characters and the events that transpired. There is that sense of adventure. There is a progression of events, what you did early in the game feels so long ago, but is so prevalent to the final outcome. There is certainly a sense of accomplishment in 2d platformers, but it feels a lot different. For me, I guess I really love a good adventure game, and Zelda and Metroid have given that to me for the previous two generations. I got to play Zelda TP right away when I got my Wii, and then Metroid Prime Corruption not to long after, followed up by the Prime Trilogy and then of course Zelda Skyward Sword. Other than Mass Effect 3, I havent had a new "adventure" experience in quite a while, and knowing that in the past Retro created three of my favorite games of all time that meet this criteria, I was disappointed that they chose to do two platformers in a row.

I too see the polish in DKC TF, and like I said its not a bad game, not by a long shot, but I was simply never that excited for it. I bought it day one hoping to love it, but that just didnt happen.
I know what you're saying. I too love "experiences" like Bioshock, Metroid Prime, Zelda, etc, but I also too like "simple" games like DK, and indies. I've actually been thinking about this thread the last few days, and while I always accepted other people's opinion, I'm starting to fully realize it. After beating DK and Dust on Steam, I'm actually good with 2D right now. It's still my favorite genre, but right now I'm in the mood for Assassin's Crreed 4, the "experience" behind it. Yoshi's Island comes out next week and while I'm sure I'll enjoy it, another 2D so soon isn't what I need right now, despite loving them.
As a Wii U owner, I had my DK, Mario, and indies, but I did also have my Pikmin 3, Splinter Cell, Wonderful 101 and drunken CoD nights with you. If you didn't play those, or most of those, and basically just played Nintendo games, then absolutely I understand where the whole lack of "experiences" on Wii U is. Nintendo themselves didn't release much "wow" material on Wii U. Pikmin 3 is hands down my favorite on U, but that's about it for those "wow" games. Wind Waker is a remake, 3D World is 3D Land 1.5, and I still stand by my thought of that only Retro could have made DK the way it is, I understand that some people just can't see it the way I do in terms of that game.
I tend to jump back and forth between big epic adventures (pikmin, splinter cell) and simpler "pick up and play" games (DK, Mario) and I'll admit, Nintendo has been focusing primarily on the latter so far with the U. Maybe if they didn't, people would be more alright with Retro doing DK, but yeah, I totally see where the lack of enthusiasm is coming from, despite how downright fucking awesome Tropical Freeze is.
edit: RAP material right here yo' ^ ;)
 
Damn, I'd pitch in, but I haven't booted up my Wii U in over a month and have barely touched any game on the Wii U really besides Most Wanted U (slight overstatement). Last game I completed was Spec Ops: The Line about a month ago.
If Most Wanted U was the only game on Wii U I owned thus far, I wouldn't even be mad. It has replayability levels akin to Smash, Kart, and Battlefront.

@Jacesonnall Just wanted to reiterate that it's not about Metroid or Zelda for me.
I know, I was using them as examples. You could replace those games with Deus Ex or Eternal Darkness if you wanted.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
Damn, marketing buzzwords infiltrating TNE now?

Getting all these shiny gold medals in Tropical Freeze has been one hell of an experience so far...
Come on man, that's disingenuous. I'm certain you know what GoodTwin was talking about when he used the term "experience".
Unless you're talking about a different "marketing term", in which case I'll be the first to admit that I might be biased in wanting Donkey Kong to have more "visceral" combat. :">
 

sjmartin79

White Phoenix of the Crown
Finally got around to starting DKCTF last night, and DAMN, I'm having a blast. Loving the graphics and the controls! The stages are fun and longer than I thought they would be. Unless this game goes to s**t at some point, I'm giving it an A. Solid game.
 
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