How should we handle discussion of IGN on these forums?

Menashe

Moderator
Moderator
#1
Hmm, I think we should have community talk about how we should handle discussion of IGN. I'm always hesitant to ban a topic, so it's more a matter of figuring out whats appropriate between a community of intelligent friends. If you joined two book clubs to discuss books with a group of like-minded people, you wouldn't sit in one book club and talk all day about the competing book club. It's just not respectful. Which is why I don't think it's a matter of banning, it's more a matter that "being respectful" is hopefully part of the broader relationships that go on in here. So, can we all come to some kind of agreement between ourselves about what degree of IGN discussion, if at all, should be considered respectful to our community? Especially, since we didn't create this community so it can be a place for people who have to vent about IGN can come and let it all out. It's also not meant to be a respite for banned-IGNers to commiserate together until their bans are lifted. It's meant for like-minded gamers who are looking for (hopefully) common-sense Nintendo discussions and a closer-knit community. We've grown distinct enough from our original ties to IGN that we are our own community now with our own flavor.
Can it remain an agreement brought about by a constructive discussion? Or should we create some kind of rule or restriction? Or maybe someone can come up with another clever idea to deal with it.
Ideas? Thoughts?
 

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
#2
One: Trying to push this issue out of the CT and into it's own thread is in bad taste imo Menashe.... I mean are you really gonna ban someone for talking about IGN in the CT? That is just absurd.... The people this issue concerns most post in the CT....

Two: NE is not IGN nor will it ever be IGN, and for good reason.... If this were IGN I would be posting somewhere else....

Three: You shouldn't feel threatened by people discussing IGN in the CT or anywhere else on this site for that matter.... A lot of your regs here come from IGN and still frequent their boards, for better or worse, and should not be punished for discussing such things here on TNE....

Four: I would imagine the freedom offered by TNE is one of the main factors in why so many of the regs here frequent the site, taking that away in any form that could be considered unreasonable could cause some to go elsewhere to post....

Five: I have NO love for IGN and I honestly never have.... I only posted there to connect with other like minded gamers and was fortunate enough to find that in some of my fellow gamers on the IGN forums, namely the Wii CT.... I'm using this site in much the same way, to connect to some old friends whom I met in the Wii CT on IGN.... My point is that no matter how much I dislike IGN or get tired of hearing about them, IGN isn't going anywhere, and hopefully neither is TNE, but you have to understand that no matter how much you want to disconnect from that awful that is infesting the boards and staff over at IGN, that same grime is kinda what binds us all together here on TNE, whether we like it or not.... This may be my new stompin grounds, but I will never forget where I come from, and neither should you guys....

In closing I would just like to say I believe this thread to be kinda of strange in that imo this is something that NEEDS to be discussed in the CT because, as you have probably noticed or else you wouldn't have posted this thread, that is where this so called "issue" is happening.... And I would also like to say I think people should be able to discuss whatever the $%^& they want in the CT, that is wtf it is for....

My two cents, but who cares.... :[email protected]
 

Menashe

Moderator
Moderator
#3
One: Trying to push this issue out of the CT and into it's own thread is in bad taste imo Menashe.... I mean are you really gonna ban someone for talking about IGN in the CT? That is just absurd.... The people this issue concerns most post in the CT....

The CT isn't meant for a focused-topic of discussion, even if it concerns the people who usually post there. Topics change over there from moment to moment, and over here I'd like it to be the main focus of discussion even if we don't finish discussing it for a week or so. So, I don't agree that it's distasteful, rather necessary. It's not the first time we've had to do this kind of thing. For example, our discussion about drugs-discussion in the CT, or racial slurs, where it just polluted the CT until we made it have its own separate thread.

Two: NE is not IGN nor will it ever be IGN, and for good reason.... If this were IGN I would be posting somewhere else....

True.

Three: You shouldn't feel threatened by people discussing IGN in the CT or anywhere else on this site for that matter.... A lot of your regs here come from IGN and still frequent their boards, for better or worse, and should not be punished for discussing such things here on TNE....
It's not a matter of feeling threatened. If it were, I would have brought it up a long time ago. It's a matter of being distasteful. There's a certain amount of IGN talk that I think is pretty normal since even I still post there a few times throughout the week. So it will inevitably come up. But, since it is a competing forum I do find it to be a distasteful when there's a page full of IGN discussions in our CT. I'm not just talking about praising IGN, I'm even talking IGN-bashing. I know it's not just me who finds it annoying. A lot of the staff have complained about it off the forums for months already but everyone felt stupid to bring it up. So, I'm finally giving voice to it.
Unfortunately, we're all human. And as much as we'd like to be man enough about it to not care, it does annoy some of us.
But, as you said, finding something annoying is not reason to ban anyone. I just mentioned that option because IGN used to have a rule that you can't discuss other forums or else you're warned and then banned for spamming/advertising. Not that that's how we'd ideally handle such a thing. As I mentioned, I hate banning and don't really think that's something I'd ever want to use except for more extreme behavior. So, think of it more like a friend coming over and saying, He buddy, that thing you keep doing is kind of bugging me. Can you please stop?

Four: I would imagine the freedom offered by TNE is one of the main factors in why so many of the regs here frequent the site, taking that away in any form that could be considered unreasonable could cause some to go elsewhere to post....
I forget how long you've been a regular, but we definitely don't offer absolute freedom. We've tried that route before and it was disastrous. We realized that there definitely has to be some boundaries and even some banning occasionally to keep a sense of order. Which is why we generally try to make these kinds of thread discussions when issues are to be handled, and it's the rare occasion that bans are handed out. But again, don't think there's complete freedom here, because there isn't. It's more like 80:20.

Five: I have NO love for IGN and I honestly never have.... I only posted there to connect with other like minded gamers and was fortunate enough to find that in some of my fellow gamers on the IGN forums, namely the Wii CT.... I'm using this site in much the same way, to connect to some old friends whom I met in the Wii CT on IGN.... My point is that no matter how much I dislike IGN or get tired of hearing about them, IGN isn't going anywhere, and hopefully neither is TNE, but you have to understand that no matter how much you want to disconnect from that awful that is infesting the boards and staff over at IGN, that same grime is kinda what binds us all together here on TNE, whether we like it or not.... This may be my new stompin grounds, but I will never forget where I come from, and neither should you guys....

In closing I would just like to say I believe this thread to be kinda of strange in that imo this is something that NEEDS to be discussed in the CT because, as you have probably noticed or else you wouldn't have posted this thread, that is where this so called "issue" is happening.... And I would also like to say I think people should be able to discuss whatever the $%^& they want in the CT, that is wtf it is for....

My two cents, but who cares.... :[email protected]

This is not the first time where we've had issues to discuss and we always found that discussing them in the CT just ruined the experience for them. So, from past experiences, this has been found to be the best way of discussing it.
As for IGN, I have no problem with people having mutiple communities they hang out in. Basically all of us, mods, regs, admins, whatever, still post on IGN. But, in order to be an individuated community, I just find it makes it much more pleasant when we don't sit around and discuss IGN in the CT.
 

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
#4
Wow, just wow.... I think you missed my point entirely but it did look fun picking apart my last post.... Anyway I think I'll just stay outa this one from here on out.... It's obvious you have a particular vision for your website Menashe, so much so that I honestly am not sure why you would bother asking anyone else what you should do about the IGN thing.... From what it sounds like you've already made up your mind how to treat this little "situation"....



Anyways good luck with that.... The only time you'll here me bring up IGN around here again is how in much I loath them....




EDIT: It would also seem I am the only one bothered by any of this, lol.... I honestly don't know why the hell I'm defending IGN....




#-o
 

Menashe

Moderator
Moderator
#5
Wow, just wow.... I think you missed my point entirely but it did look fun picking apart my last post.... Anyway I think I'll just stay outa this one from here on out.... It's obvious you have a particular vision for your website Menashe, so much so that I honestly am not sure why you would bother asking anyone else what you should do about the IGN thing.... From what it sounds like you've already made up your mind how to treat this little "situation"....



Anyways good luck with that.... The only time you'll here me bring up IGN around here again is how in much I loath them....




EDIT: It would also seem I am the only one bothered by any of this, lol.... I honestly don't know why the hell I'm defending IGN....




#-o

As I said, there are a lot of others who have been pretty upset about the IGN discussion but you won't have heard them voicing it on the forum. And, yes, I do have a vision for the site and forum, constantly evolving as we grow and through discussion with the staff, and I have no apologies for that. But, as in the past if I see a lot of people strongly feeling differently I go along with the majority opinion. Just because you see I voice a strong opinion about something don't jump to the conclusion that I don't discuss these things with the others. Just ask the staff. We talk on Skype about site issues for hours every week. Decision aren't just made by them saying: Ok Menashe go do your own thing like always! We constantly have debates about these things, and yes, some of the staff will be pretty critical about things when they don't like how something is running. And I like it that way because it keeps us honest. The fact that you're jumping to conclusions about how the site is run or how decisions are made without ever having been privy to any of what goes on behind the scenes isn't a very sound way of being a part of this discussion.
Edit: I just want to reiterate that I'm happy when people debate my opinion. I WANT you to voice yourself here. I'm not going to bite. I may defend my position and argue logically with you, but I honestly want to see the majority opinion on this. You heard what I had to say, now, what do you guys feel?
 

Aki

Well-Known Member
#6
I think talking about IGN to some extent is fine, but what's going on in the CT with certain users is plain disrespectful. There's users here who are only here because they got banned over at IGN and that's fine, but then they go on and complain about IGN and about how their banned. This and that. It's obvious that they would leave the second they could. I have no prob trash talking IGN because I didn't get banned and then join here, I decided to join here a long time ago. However, nothing positive comes out of bitching about IGN, so lets keep it classy and not do it.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#7
For those who don't know let me tell you this.

We Skype about the site alot, a whole lot. I'm the one who started all this. I got quite pissed about all this talk on IGN from last night. Aces and GamerzDood were the focus of my fury.

I voiced it hardcore last night over Skype. Menashe was asleep lol he just saw all this in the morning. So I would strongly disagree that this is all Menashe vision. We all have a voice and we listen to y'all that's were most the discussion comes from.

Now I agree with Aki, I felt last night was some disrespect. Cause IMO were as a forum leaps and bounds above IGN lobby. Now if we was talking about my class of 2002 at IGN then nah were getting there but that's where I learned we can have true community. And honestly we have true community now, it's still just growing into something greater.

Makes me feel like the convo last night was like "hey that place is crap, but man it's some awesome smelling crap I like it". When you got what I think is a really awesome cool party going in right Infront of you.

Ill use the anoilgy to used in Skype last night. "Now days on IGN most the people don't have a home persay. And when you don't have a home you treat it as temporary. So you crap on the floors and trash the place out and they move on leaving a mess. Here at TNE were building a home for our awesome posters trying to involve them in every way. So like normal people they piss in the toliet, even if they miss the bowl from time to time".
 

Aki

Well-Known Member
#8
I've got to say that if the IGN talk continues this site will start going downhill. There's already a lot of users who make this their secondary home, as in they only come here when they are banned or drop by every once in a while. Idk about how everyone else feels, but I'm not looking for a site that's known as a refuge for those who are banned to vent their issues, especially not in the CT. It takes away from the discussions at hand and it makes other want to talk shit too. As a growing forum, we don't need that kind of reputation.
 
#9
I'm agreeing with some of the points everybody is making so I'll just pick and choose them and elaborate on them, but first, it's all about understanding each other. Let's not act like we don't because that's really how it looks right now in this thread.
Hoping to speak a bit for @LightsaberBlues here.

Every time the current IGN is brought up, you can't just get angry because you were from early IGN. Hell, that's not even fair. You can't permit discussion of early IGN and not permit discussion of current IGN simply because you feel you have to belittle the site every time it's brought up. If you guys don't like IGN at all as it is now, then you're going to to have to stop bring up the good ol' days only to shoot the people down for bringing up the days they first joined the forum... But I'm sure you guys are too enthusiastic about the good ol' days to not be able to talk about the good ol' days.
Let's get something straight. We all know IGN as it is now is like a friend who fell to the dark side (Others like to call it shit). We all know each other think this is true. Hell, even the members at IGN right now agree, but they are only there because they don't want to leave their friends unless their friends go with them (and it's only a matter of time before they're all over here). We know this. This is something all of us don't have to be told because we're here because of this fact.
Hoping to speak a bit for those who came here because they were banned on IGN ( @ChristianSoilder , etc)
To those saying that some of us are only here because they got banned and like to use this fact to belittle them....I have to ask you... What the hell are you doing? Seriously, what the hell? Some people in life need that extra push to bring them to these forums. In fact, some of the people there now are waiting for an event like that (not necessarily a ban) to make them move over to here. Hell, if IGN never banned certain people for the unreasonable reason that they sometimes did, we would not have those quality members posting (or posting more frequently) over here now so how dare we talk down to these people like they are lower life forms just because they didn't exactly post here by their own will. Some of you who are currently not banned at IGN talk about yourselves as if you never got banned on IGN (or anywhere else) and never vented here on the forums or anywhere else about it. Face it, being removed from a place where a lot of your friends are sucks and people are grateful to be able to have a place to talk about the issues that they are having while getting advice on how to solve it. While these are the same people who run back to IGN when they get unbanned, they do that because it would make absolutely no sense to them for them to just abandon their friends because the place of establishment that they currently reside in sucks. People are at IGN because of their friends, we're here because of our friends. The obvious difference is that one place of establishment is better than the other.Think of the situation at IGN like a band of friends and family trying to escape from from 20th century China to America in sought of a better life for themselves, but are reluctant to do so because they don't want to leave the people they care about behind.-weight: normal;">IGN isn't the ideal place to talk about gaming. Most people know that and it's only a matter of time before a lot of them leak over to here. There's really no need to get angry whenever people bring it up.

[hr]Now that that's out of the way, I still agree with the staff team I spoke with on Skype last night and I think it's about time we establish at least some form of a TOS.
Our main rule here has been not to be a dick, but that doesn't do a good job establishing the kind of atmosphere NE emits. When people come here (Whether it be from a ban or for some other good reason), they aren't just going to automatically know what this place is like. They might have an idea, but they might have the wrong idea too (For example, this isn't a free for all community like some people think of it to be).
Speaking for myself here, I've said it before and I'll say it again, If I was asked to define NE in one sentence, I'd say that NE is a variety of gaming communities filtered into what everyone likes about those gaming communities (And I did get some agreement when I originally posted that).
If we're to keep it that way, it would probably be best to have a TOS built around that idea, which means there has to be certain limitations.

[hr]Long story short, I agree with everybody and think we should establish limitations where necessary. Specifically speaking about the case with discussing IGN, I think the only thing we shouldn't allow is for people to troll IGN and then make a post about it here saying "Hey guys, I'm trolling IGN, don't take what I say seriously." because if we do, what does that make us? A community of secret IGN trolls perhaps?
 

Majorbuddah

My real name is Dolemite
#10
i haven't read any of the posts ITT, just throwing in my two cents here.
people should be allowed to talk about what they want, especially in the CT. i understand rules against porn/racism/etc, but the vast majority of topics, including IGN, shouldn't be censored or discouraged in a thread that's off-topic by design.
if people don't want to talk about IGN, they won't. i know i never bring it up, because the place basically sucks. if they do want to talk about IGN though, the CT is probably the right place for it.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#11
For some reason, I feel that I've instigated all of this. I don't care about being banned on IGN anymore, it doesn't bother me. My complaint was directed at the double standards of the site: The Wii U lobby CT gets spammed all of the time & those spammers aren't banned; sng-ign created a 3 page thread with nothing but him posting profile pictures that he likes: Nothing happened to him. I posted a lot of box arts & I got reported. There are great boards on IGN like the GCB & PS3 lobby, and that's ultimately why I post there. If anything, I would've never thought about IGN had GamePro not shut down.
Aces and GaemzDood were the focus of my fury
I should probably apologize for not posting here enough. This school computer is very laggy & unresponsive when I'm on this site. I also frequently get this message: "Element does not Exist in DOM!" That same message also pops up a lot & pauses my browsing/lurking. My laptop, which worked perfectly with this site, is broken & my desktop, which also works perfectly with this site, is way back a home. My best luck for posting on here without lag is driving down to the library to use the computers. I actually do want to meaningfully contribute to this site by posting some more interesting stuff (I know a lot about vidya) & doing reviews for Nintendo's retro systems.

If anything, I will probably stop posting on IGN once I reach [strike]20k[/strike] 1,000,000 posts.
 

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
#12
I wasn't jumping to conclusions about anything Menashe except that when you speak to people you sound condescending, like in your posts to me you sound like you are speaking to a child, which of course I am probably 10 years the elder to most around here and am a father myself....

In fact I remember that always being your tone with your replys and posts even when you used to try and tear peoples arguments apart back on IGN....

And while some things ARE changing, I guess some things are staying the same.... I know I haven't changed all that much either in terms of my posting habits.... :>



EDIT: I'm mean just the idea that you think TNE is soooo different than IGN is hilarious imo.... Everyone here, EVERYONE is from IGN.... This place IS IGN for the most part, minus about 700 thousand morons being able to flood your forums with nonsense and an incompetent writing and review staff....



EDIT 2: I know some of you here have no particular love for me (Menashe) or could care less if I post here.... Truth be told if it weren't for Matt bringing me into the folds I doubt I would have been "allowed" to post here at all.... And that in and of itself bothers the hell out of me.... Take that for what you will.... :-"
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#13
LSB is we were IGN for the most part as you said, wouldn't we have 700,000 morons flooding our forums, with nonsense, and have an incompitant writing and review staff?

The way I see it we don't have none of that like you said so to compare is to IGN is pretty crazy. We're community driven, they are corporate driven there's a whole lotta differences there just sayin.

Also this is a convo ment to figure out how to come to a best conclusion on the problems. Not to attack Menashe.

Also if this was IGN we couldn't have good discusion in a thread with the owner of the company, or the heads of different sections of that company. Actually there's not much we have in common with them at all besides being a videogame website, and having news features and forums.

Now how is the best way to figure out how to repect the different community's that come here? Right now it's a merge of TNE and IGN users. I'm scouring different forums now on the recruitment trail again. So this won't be the first time world collide.
 
#14
@GaemzDood

If you apologize, I'll kill you. ಠ_ಠ
:p

@LightsaberBlues

I'll let Menashe respond to the parts about himself since that's not my place, but about the other parts, I wouldn't be happy if you left.

Who else would I be able to discuss Star Wars with? :>
 

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
#15
Eh I'm starting to think coming back to post was a huge mistake.... Some of the same things that bugged me about IGN, namely gamer elitism, is very much alive and well here on TNE.... I'm starting to realize that now.... Either way I think I'll just be lurking more than anything else from now on.... Maybe throw in my two cents here and there when I can't keep myself from doing so....

TNE is all yours guys.... >:D< I'll be watching and reading....



And Matt the only reason this has even become a so called "problem" is because you guys are making it one.... You're honesly giving this more credence than it deserves and that was my point all along.... I think it bothers you staff guys, not really anyone else, so we'll see....
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#16
I think as you have seen Major, Aki, GamerzDood they have said it was either "disrespectful", "just don't talk about IGN" or "actually do want to contibute here meaningfully".

All coming from non staff. So read what you will LSB I ain't mad at cha'.

As far as gamer elitism you can quote this. As the head of the forum community you don't know how proud I am to have the best posters here IMO. So proud to have the elite we talk about them on podcast. So proud were about to open a mail bag to showcase them on the front page of the site.

Yes I'm trying to build an elite community not full of crap, but full of excellent threads, discussion, and people to play online with who wanna win and be elite and awesome. I'm a winner, the community is a winner, the site is a winner we are elite.

Don't like it fine. I think you talk about elite in a negative, my elite is definalty positive. I scour forums looking for the best posters and invite them here. I'm trying to build the best environment for discussion, gaming, and communityi here. Call it what you want, I like being the best and a part of the best. This community makes me better at every turn.

Right now you are a part of this LSB and I've been glad to have you back. From this point on its your choice.
 

running_in_jam

Videogame Sound Designer and Composer
#17
I just want to throw my own opinion in the mix if that's okay.

I'm the totally impartial man here - I'm not exactly from IGN. I like everyone on this board no matter their views, what they talk about or whatever. So LSB, I've always thought you were a nice guy and still do - you've always been more than welcome here in my book and you still are, so don't go anywhere man!!

As for the IGN thing. It doesn't bother me, but I'm not going to get involved in that kind of discussion, and I remember avoiding the CT for the whole time that chat was going on. That's just me though - I don't mind people talking about it, but I agree that it's deterring for me if the CT is full of IGN stuff that I don't know or care much about. But hey the CT is for everyone so it's cool.

Anyway as I was saying, all the posters above me I consider to be on the same level. LSB, GaemzDood and everyone else make the forum what it is, so I think we should all just go back to being pals and get talkin' about gamez and stuff again >:D<
 

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
#18
Nerds who think they are too cool for other nerds.... Yeah thanks but no thanks Matt.... I appreciate you giving me the "chance or opportunity" to post on your elite site guys, but that is ridiculous....

I'll be lurking though, reading your articles and reviews, and peaking in on the CT, I just won't be trying to be a huge part of this community any longer.... I suppose my place is with those that you would shun.... ^:)^

And just for the record I will always consider most of the people on this site to be my friends, whether we agree or not.... :)>-
 

running_in_jam

Videogame Sound Designer and Composer
#19
Btw, the like wasn't for your decision to have a less active role, LSB! I would dislike that part if I could :p but of course I respect your decision, I'm just glad that you'll stick around (at least passively) and that we're all still friends! :)>-
 
#20
Nerds who think they are too cool for other nerds.... Yeah thanks but no thanks Matt.... I appreciate you giving me the "chance or opportunity" to post on your elite site guys, but that is ridiculous....

I'll be lurking though, reading your articles and reviews, and peaking in on the CT, I just won't be trying to be a huge part of this community any longer.... I suppose my place is with those that you would shun.... ^:)^

And just for the record I will always consider most of the people on this site to be my friends, whether we agree or not.... :)>-
Real sad to see you go man. I too don't particularly agree with calling myself better than others and I don't think that's what Matt was aiming to say (but rather he might have just been condemning the trolls and whatnot that exist elsewhere).
Hopefully you don't take the stuff posted in this thread too much to heart and find it in you to start posting again. :)
Nonetheless, I'm with Jam. :-h
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#21
The fact that this became a thorny issue should make it obvious enough that it's something people wanted to talk about. At the very least, Staff members that were bothered by the constant comparisons to IGN have the right to speak up about it. Treating it like it's a topic of conversation that should be prohibited doesn't go well with me, and I guarantee it will take a lot to convince me otherwise -- but all the same, it's a topic that is sensitive to people here, so it's something that needs to be talked about.
I agree with the opinion that IGN is not a topic we can ignore completely. Even though I don't think of them as our actual competition, the fact of the matter is that a lot of people from there end up here. We can talk about how we're not aiming to be a shadow of IGN, but we can't ignore the fact that people come from there to here, and that they want to vent about their issues there, here. I know this ends up bothering those that have made their home here for our actual unique qualities, but just think that if these people miss IGN so much, then they will soon go back there, and if they end up liking it better here, they will naturally stop talking about the previous place. For us staff members and community leaders, on the other hand, all that talk serves as helpful tips about what to do and not to do with our own community.
At the end of the day, I do agree with Matt in his positive way of framing us as a bit "elitist", and that's because those of us that started this community started it because we felt IGN had fallen bellow where we liked it, and thought we could do better. From the start, we have been about standing up to criticism and doing one better, and that's also applied to the way we talk in the forums, including the topics of conversation. From the moment we invited everyone to make the TOS together, we were all opening up to criticism and improvement, and for communal, not authoritative, decisions. When the issue of drug talk came up, we tried to challenge those who liked it and those who didn't to both do better. When we had that nasty spammer issue a few months back, the result was nothing but improvements to the site and the community. Now that this comes up, I personally wish everyone involved could take it upon themselves to be more tolerating: for us staff to take it upon ourselves to make the forums more appealing in different ways so that IGN refugees have a reason to stick around and do better here; and for regular community members to accept that there will always be people coming and going from IGN, and that they will continue to talk about their issues; and finally, for people that come from IGN to understand that, though some of us will gladly listen to you vent about IGN, not everyone will always be as patient.
On Menashe's tone as LSB perceives it: he's a university professor, that's just the tone he's best with when making arguments. Curiously, Bob said the opposite thing about his articles, and I paraphrase: "he's very informative without really being condescending".
 
#23
@LightsaberBluesQuick post. Hopefully after reading what juegos posted, you see that you might have gotten slightly the wrong idea about this forum.
Essentially, everything IGN fails in, we look to succeed in and, for the most part, we've been successful in doing that so far.
I also really don't think Menashe thinks you're equivalent to white trash (Seriously, that has to be a misunderstanding). I actually think you just might be misunderstanding and I can actually relate to you. We made a similar thread like this a couple months ago where we were sorting out an issue with myself and MB. The goal of the thread was for both of us to give our opinions about each other to sort out the matter. When I gave my opinion, I got the same type of response you did and proceeded to think that the thread was just a formality and that whatever I said didn't matter. Long story short, I was wrong, it wasn't a formality, the facts were just being thrown at me probably faster than I wanted them to be and I ended up accepting them and benefited from them.
I'd just try not to mistake Menashe's direct and assertive persona with him being degrading and rather take it as him trying to help you understand a different perspective. I mean, do you really think his intention is to do his best to drive you or anyone else away from the forums? Lol, because if that was his intention, I give him a grade of F
. haha.
At the end of you day, everyone in this thread just wants to create a better environment for each other and threads like these help to us to understand each other better. There will be a point in time where threads like these won't be needed, but for now, we're still growing and need the community's help with that. I really wouldn't want to see you leave off a very likely misunderstanding, but if it has to be, then that's alright. Maybe we'll see you soon, maybe not, nonetheless, good luck. ;)
 

Cyan

Well-Known Member
#25
LightsaberBlues,
you're talking a lot about Menashe's
"tone", but are you aware that your "tone" just
comes off as childish, angry, and ill informed? All over this
topic you've been acting like a kid throwing a tantrum because
he can't get things to go his way. Menashe isn't talking down to you,
he's just using proper grammar, and the like. What he's not doing is
insulting you, or trying to use emotional arguments such as "I'm
gunna leave forever unless you do things my way."
I find the way
you've been talking to and about him this entire thread to just be
disrespectful.

On the topic of IGN. I've never been on
IGN's forums. I honestly don't know how good or bad it is, but I
always dislike the "no advertising" rules.
People should be able to talk about their projects and forums here,
in my opinion. Even though I'm kinda bias about that.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#26
LSB a disruption HAHAHAHAHHAHAHHA!!!

Syndiat3 now there's a disruption. LSB your voicing your opinion and were listening and you claim to be looked down upon. I have loved having you here I'm just answering your post, you seem to take it very personal tho which is sad.

The reason we have this in its own thread is so we can air our thoughts and the rest of the forum can move on. You seem to have a problem with that.

We do have a screening so our community isn't destroyed like yours and mine was back on IGN. Again you seem to have a problem with that aswell.

So besides using an umbrella term like "elitism" tell us what's wrong here. We learned lots from negative situations already.

EDIT: ^these topics I address in this post were valid until LSB edited his post and made these points look like they were drug outta thin air.
 

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
#27
Sry about that Matt, but at this point I just want you guys to be able to use this thread to resolve your IGN issues....

I feel like I deviated the thread, unintentionally I might add, by sharing my views on the situation....

So yeah sry Matt, didn't mean to make you sound bat shit crazy.... He's not loony tunes guys.... I just made a couple of posts too many and would rather you guys just move on....

I didn't mean to turn this into a farewell thread.... That kinda just happened.... :-? EDIT: If it makes you feel any better my son just snapped my NSMBU disc in half.... ~X(
 
#29
Not sure about what happened here, but if we start banning this and that, the place will take one of the worst of ign and try to apply it here. I always thought this place was for a more mature user that needs less baby sitting.
 

Menashe

Moderator
Moderator
#30
I wasn't jumping to conclusions about anything Menashe except that when you speak to people you sound condescending, like in your posts to me you sound like you are speaking to a child, which of course I am probably 10 years the elder to most around here and am a father myself....

In fact I remember that always being your tone with your replys and posts even when you used to try and tear peoples arguments apart back on IGN....

And while some things ARE changing, I guess some things are staying the same.... I know I haven't changed all that much either in terms of my posting habits.... :>



EDIT: I'm mean just the idea that you think TNE is soooo different than IGN is hilarious imo.... Everyone here, EVERYONE is from IGN.... This place IS IGN for the most part, minus about 700 thousand morons being able to flood your forums with nonsense and an incompetent writing and review staff....



EDIT 2: I know some of you here have no particular love for me (Menashe) or could care less if I post here.... Truth be told if it weren't for Matt bringing me into the folds I doubt I would have been "allowed" to post here at all.... And that in and of itself bothers the hell out of me.... Take that for what you will.... :-"

1. I'll start off by pointing out that I do like you and think you're raising some good points. I don't know why but it's almost like you think that through disagreeing with me or even criticizing me that I'm going to be upset at you or start a fight. You're saying things like Menashe probably doesn't like me or My two cents, but who cares.... and I don't know where that's coming from because I certainly don't feel like that. You're just being honest. Maybe you don't like me, and that's ok. You're entitled to your opinion and I wouldn't hold it against you.
Without me saying so, please don't jump to such conclusions because: Menashe likes you, and yes, he cares about your opinion. Dude, that's exactly why I brought this thing up to the community. And also your tone makes it seem like you're coming out swinging, as if I'm going to be really upset at you and you have to drop the gloves right away. I'm serious when I say, that's absolutely not the truth. In my personal relationships in real life, and especially with my wife, I'm a very big advocate of being honest and bringing everything on to the table. If I'm doing something wrong or you feel I should be handling something differently, I WANT you to say it. Too often people just say I'm talented and then leave me to my own devices, but I'd much rather have honest feedback from people. I hate when people treat me like some kind of genius person from a different planet. I like to be treated like any regular person. Which means: Go ahead and criticize me when I do something wrong and tell me I'm doing a good job when you think things are going the way you like them.
kground-color: rgb(252, 252, 252); color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; line-height: 18px;">So, the fact that you were the first one to actually jump in here and honestly give me some criticism is something I highly value and I wish more people would be willing to do that. I think a lot of the staff can even learn from you. I don't want to be placed on some pedestal and live in my own bubble. I need the honest feedback so that we can grow and evolve in a healthy way. So, please don't hold on to that incorrect conclusion that I don't want to hear what you have to say.
2. Because you automatically assumed I don't like you I'm wondering if I do sound condescending to others as well or if it's your own way of thinking. If I do sound condescending then of course, I'd like to take a good look at myself and my posts and try and change that. So, I put out the question to everyone: do I sound condescending to everyone else also? Please be honest, I won't be offended if you're honest with me.
I think that what I'm aiming for is providing a sense of leadership. I want people to feel like there's someone steering the ship, and I find it makes the staff feel motivated and inspired when they know there's a strong authority to get behind. I won't lie and pretend I'm not trying to lead a team. I am. But that doesn't mean I think I'm better or more worthy as a human being. I'm really happy that I can help provide a service to everyone here, if there is a service to be had. But I do hope everyone keeps me in check, in reality, and honest about myself. It's a two-way game, I think everyone needs me to some degree, but I would have nothing if not for everyone else. I know that leadership positions can bring a person down the road of arrogance so hope I stay humble enough to listen to others opinions and realize that I would be capable of nothing without every single person who plays some kind of a role in this website, both in the writing aspect and as part of the community. I know some people love having a leader and others hate the very concept of authority, or just can't handle it. If the latter applies to anyone, they should probably just leave now, because despite being very community-oriented, we're going to provide a framework of authority. I think that's the way a community can function the best. I don't agree with the anarchism mentality and I don't think that would make a community I'd want to be a part of (it's probably more like the way 4chan works.) Nor do I believe in a totalitarian government, which is the way you were describing it. I'd hope we can make it function more like a democracy.
The challenge in the role I play at the website is that on one hand I want to provide a strong back-bone to the site, and I'm not going to speak as if I think I'm dumb, because I don't think I am. So, I guess you can say, I might talk with a sense of authority. But at the same time, I ant to make people realize that they have a say and I don't want to do things all by myself. If everyone has differing opinions I may give myself the final vetoing power, but I'd much rather if this place runs like a democracy site, where there is a leader, but he is just meant to be the voice of the people. So, I guess what I realize from all this is that I haven't been doing a good enough job conveying that the community has a say. At the beginning we had threads where the community got to discuss and decided on things like the TOS so I thought that was enough. But I guess there will constantly be new members and I should make it a point to remind them of how things are meant to work around here.
3. There is one way in which I think we're different than IGN. We have a very different vision/goal. The people might be the same, but what they're setting about to do is very very different. And yes, that makes the world of the difference.
I don't think we're there as a community yet, and maybe this discussion is exactly what we needed and need in the future. It's the meta-discussion that we need, not just the actual discussion.

Nerds who think they are too cool for other nerds.... Yeah thanks but no thanks Matt.... I appreciate you giving me the "chance or opportunity" to post on your elite site guys, but that is ridiculous....

I'll be lurking though, reading your articles and reviews, and peaking in on the CT, I just won't be trying to be a huge part of this community any longer.... I suppose my place is with those that you would shun.... ^:)^

And just for the record I will always consider most of the people on this site to be my friends, whether we agree or not.... :)>-
I'll just come out and say it now. Yes, we are kind of elitist. But, I don't think it's in the way that the rest of the internet uses it. I just mean that I think we're aiming for very high values as a site and a community and I think that I'm surrounded by some of the most talented staff and intelligent posters around. There are truly excellent human beings interacting with me every day on here. So, I'm not going to pretend I'm not reality. I see the reality just fine. There's something really special going on when so many cool people are in the same room together. And I'm very proud of that. Matt never forgets to remind me that I shouldn't be arrogant and think it's all my doing. I happened to have got very lucky on here. I was in the right place at the right time to make a new community from the awesome folk who had been hanging around IGN and were looking to leave.
Where we do differ from the elitist implications on the internet is that we always try to be inclusive rather than exclusive. We try and be humble about our opinions and we make it a point that we're not journalists. The staff want to be a part of gaming community just as much as everyone else. And if you start making us feel like "staff" instead of just gamers who like to have fun, we'd be pretty upset. And that's also why we let anyone in the community be a part of the site. Every contributing member on the site was once part of the "regular" community and decided to start pitching in. There aren't meant to boundaries between staff and community. Staff are regular people, and the regular people can always join the staff.
Not sure about what happened here, but if we start banning this and that, the place will take one of the worst of ign and try to apply it here. I always thought this place was for a more mature user that needs less baby sitting.
I think we've only ever had to ban one person since we began. So I don't think you have to worry about that. I said the ratio of rules to freedom is 80:20 but it's probably much more lopsided actually. Basically, really extreme behavior leads to banning, everything else is treated like human beings.
 
#31
Soooooo...
Anyone still planning on throwing up their arms the next time IGN-related stuff is brought up as a brief topic of discussion? (Which is a rare occasion)
 

Menashe

Moderator
Moderator
#35
I don't think we should ban IGN topics either.
But people who don't want to contribute here at all other than to vent about their IGN drama until they can be unbanned over there and disappear on us for good doesn't seem like it's being respectful of the community here.
 
#36
I don't think we should ban IGN topics either.
But people who don't want to contribute here at all other than to vent about their IGN drama until they can be unbanned over there and disappear on us for good doesn't seem like it's being respectful of the community here.
Agreed.
Not sure how to turn this into a solid rule though. I guess we could let those people know from the get-go that we hope they didn't only come here to vent, etc, etc.
I mean so far, we haven't really seen anyone come here and vent and then completely leave for good. Those who have vented have pretty much stayed here.
Btw, a little off topic, but whatever happened to Darkkevit (I believe that was his name)? He used to post here a lot.
 
#37
Oh, that's the issue. I'm fine with that. Maybe in the ct, so if someone just want to share and others feel like saying something about that, they all can do it. And if they don't, well it will be buried for good.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#38
We were just talking about Darkkevit yesterday as well, @Jacesonnall. I also haven't known anything about him for a while.
 
#40

What on Earth did I just walk into?
I know. This is the first time I actually even clicked on this thread



LOL! my thoughts exactly! Can someone tell what happened?

I really don't want to see this site to transform into IGN... :(

I've been here since the beginning (yeah I know I don't post that much) but I think this is one of the best video game websites right now.

No, I'm serious. :)

Let's keep it like that.us
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#41
You guys can rest easy. When the question of banning topics from the CT came up, it was only to see what the community thought was best. It certainly annoys some people to be frequently compared, or to have to hear about a certain topic frequently, but we know there are better ways to make it better than to simply ban the topic from being discussed.
You guys that have been here for a long time know how we roll. We're still the same people managing the site, and we're still looking to you for advice, so no need to worry.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#42
Nintendo Enthusiast actually feels a lot different than IGN (save for the smileys). The interface for pretty much everything is different & the people are somehow magically different despite being the same. On IGN, I was a lot different than on here - for example, I used more expletives than all Kevin Smith filmed combined on IGN while my language is only worthy of a PG-13 on here.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#44
Alright, I'm going to drop this here, because I don't know where else to put it on the forum, and I think it's an interesting bit of gaming-media news.

IGN is, once again, out a Nintendo editor. Rich is now "taking over as head of News and Features" for IGN. He says it's "not really accurate" to say that he's out of the Nintendo gig, but c'mon, it is. He's only on Nintendo now insofar as features are also written about Nintendo. It's really a promotion for Mr. George, so congrats to him.

I've my own quibbles about his style (the "interesting" debacle, some parts of his writing style and even how he's talking about watermarks on Twitter, not to mention IGN's overall editorial practices and standards), but that's another matter. The question I have is how the hell did IGN go from being the place for Nintendo fans to not being able to keep any truly Nintendo-specific voices aboard for it? Audrey says the IGN "team" is now just her. It's a bit staggering to me.
 

Majorbuddah

My real name is Dolemite
#46
Alright, I'm going to drop this here, because I don't know where else to put it on the forum, and I think it's an interesting bit of gaming-media news.

IGN is, once again, out a Nintendo editor. Rich is now "taking over as head of News and Features" for IGN. He says it's "not really accurate" to say that he's out of the Nintendo gig, but c'mon, it is. He's only on Nintendo now insofar as features are also written about Nintendo. It's really a promotion for Mr. George, so congrats to him.

I've my own quibbles about his style (the "interesting" debacle, some parts of his writing style and even how he's talking about watermarks on Twitter, not to mention IGN's overall editorial practices and standards), but that's another matter. The question I have is how the hell did IGN go from being the place for Nintendo fans to not being able to keep any truly Nintendo-specific voices aboard for it? Audrey says the IGN "team" is now just her. It's a bit staggering to me.
i don't think there's enough nintendo news to justify keeping a full staff around to cover it... at least it doesn't seem that way to me.
 
#47
Alright, I'm going to drop this here, because I don't know where else to put it on the forum, and I think it's an interesting bit of gaming-media news.

IGN is, once again, out a Nintendo editor. Rich is now "taking over as head of News and Features" for IGN. He says it's "not really accurate" to say that he's out of the Nintendo gig, but c'mon, it is. He's only on Nintendo now insofar as features are also written about Nintendo. It's really a promotion for Mr. George, so congrats to him.

I've my own quibbles about his style (the "interesting" debacle, some parts of his writing style and even how he's talking about watermarks on Twitter, not to mention IGN's overall editorial practices and standards), but that's another matter. The question I have is how the hell did IGN go from being the place for Nintendo fans to not being able to keep any truly Nintendo-specific voices aboard for it? Audrey says the IGN "team" is now just her. It's a bit staggering to me.
i don't think there's enough nintendo news to justify keeping a full staff around to cover it... at least it doesn't seem that way to me.
Yeah, from experience, that's not a very accurate judgment if that's what they were doing it for.
The past couple of days have been pretty slow, but most of the time, there's a lot of news to cover with Nintendo, especially when they are the only company providing us with big news in live streams. Nintendo definitely has more news coming out of them than the other companies on a normal basis. Sony never really has that much news coming out of it (especially with the PS Vita), but of course they are going to have lots of news coming from their console division because they are launch a new console. Same thing happened with the Wii U launch. Rumors and news was flying everywhere.
 

Tucker

“Do you happen to know how to fly this thing?”
#48

I was not aware IGN drew such ire.
I basically spend all my time there on The GCB, which is a pretty tight community of people - many of whom have met IRL.
 

Superfakerbros

ECE 2018
Moderator
#50

I was not aware IGN drew such ire.
I basically spend all my time there on The GCB, which is a pretty tight community of people - many of whom have met IRL.
If you've seen the crap that goes on in the IGN Wii/Wii-U Boards, you'd see why
 
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