Is the Gamecube nightmare scenario possible for the Wii U ?

Ex-Actarus

Well-Known Member
#1
This is NOT a doom and gloom thread !!!

This is a thread where I'm asking a legitimate question : can the Wii U be the new Gamecube in term of sales and success for Nintendo ?
Let's remember that the Gamecube sold an abyssimal 20 million units worldwide.
To put things in perspective, the Wii and the DS sold more in 1 year that the Gamecube in 5...
We all know that the Wii U had a terrible start, the sales right now are absolutely abyssimal. ( selling 4 or 5 times less than the PS3 and 360 ).

However, we all know things will change with the release of key titles in the second part of 2012.
Wind Waker HD, Mario Kart Wii U, Mario 3D, Pikmin 3, etc, are all poised for a possible release in 2013.
This will - WITHOUT A DOUBT - boost the Wii U sales, but will it be enough to avoid the Gamecube or N64 situation ?

Let's NOT forget, that a 3D Mario, Pikmin, Wind Waker, Smash and Mario Kart were ALL on Gamecube...


For my part, I don't see another GC/N64 scenario because the situation is completely different.
Nintendo is the leader. They are the company who sold the most systems - handheld and home console - this gen.
So they enter next gen as the logical favourite.
During the N64 and GC days, Nintendo was NO MATCH for Sony in Japan and Europe.
But with the Wii and the DS Nintendo has been extremely strong in those territories.
So I will expect a scenario similar to the 3DS a great boost in sales, but NOTHING comparable to the Wii.
I don't expect the Wii to sell more than 60-65 million copies this gen.
Nintendo would sign for this anytime...

Please discuss.
 

Majorbuddah

My real name is Dolemite
#2
of course it's possible. as you said, gcn had all those same games and still didn't do too well. what gcn didn't have was anything to differentiate it from other consoles outside of the exclusives. so in my mind it's really up to how well nintendo can get themselves and other devs to implement the gamepad in ways that make the system stand out.
 
#5
Sales wise? Nah, I'm actually discussing this possibility in a humongous editorial I'm righting. In short, the Wii U is already doing better than the gamecube. So much better, that this possibility seems extremely unlikely already. Games wise, I think the Wii U will do much better than the GameCube because it also already is.Not only did the Wii U have the second most retail launch titles of any video game system, it also had the most highly rated titles in a console's first 5 months of existence. To add a little more, the Wii U was (and I believe still is, but I hadn't researched that far) selling much better than the PS3 and 360 did at launch. You know how much the GameCube sold in 1 year? 4.7 million. You know how much the PS Vita sold in 1 year? 4.5 million. You know how much the Wii U sold in 5 months? 3.4 million. This was all without any major releases while the Gamecube had already pulled out SSBM.
The notion that the Wii U is doing as terrible sales wise as the GameCube is just something people on the internet say to look like they know what they're talking about when in reality, they haven't done that much research.

[hr]
All that being said. Is the Wii U doing great? No because the Wii U could have been doing better if Nintendo had 1st party titles to market the system with, but they don't likely because they had to rush the Wii U out earlier than they wanted to (Wii died quicker than they expected). So the marketing of the Wii U is terrible and is terrible for a reason I believe, but I think things will get a lot better come Q3/Q4 if Nintendo plays their cards right.
So on the question if Nintendo could pull a GameCube, I highly doubt it.
 

Ex-Actarus

Well-Known Member
#9
Sales wise? Nah, I'm actually discussing this possibility in a humongous editorial I'm righting. In short, the Wii U is already doing better than the gamecube. So much better, that this possibility seems extremely unlikely already. Games wise, I think the Wii U will do much better than the GameCube because it also already is.Not only did the Wii U have the second most retail launch titles of any video game system, it also had the most highly rated titles in a console's first 5 months of existence. To add a little more, the Wii U was (and I believe still is, but I hadn't researched that far) selling much better than the PS3 and 360 did at launch. You know how much the GameCube sold in 1 year? 4.7 million. You know how much the PS Vita sold in 1 year? 4.5 million. You know how much the Wii U sold in 5 months? 3.4 million. This was all without any major releases while the Gamecube had already pulled out SSBM.
The notion that the Wii U is doing as terrible sales wise as the GameCube is just something people on the internet say to look like they know what they're talking about when in reality, they haven't done that much research.

[hr]
All that being said. Is the Wii U doing great? No because the Wii U could have been doing better if Nintendo had 1st party titles to market the system with, but they don't likely because they had to rush the Wii U out earlier than they wanted to (Wii died quicker than they expected). So the marketing of the Wii U is terrible and is terrible for a reason I believe, but I think things will get a lot better come Q3/Q4 if Nintendo plays their cards right.
So on the question if Nintendo could pull a GameCube, I highly doubt it.

Great post !!!
Cant' wait for your editorial :)
I understand that the Wii U is doing better than the GC, but don't forget that we should compare the Wii U with the wii, not the GC !
if we compare it with GC sales, that's not a good sign...
 

Superfakerbros

ECE 2018
Moderator
#10
Anything's possible. It could end up selling really well later on or it's bad sales could just get a nice little spike every now and then and then go down again. It's kind of hard to say at this point. Personally, I wouldn't mind it as it would pressure Nintendo beyond belief and a pressured Nintendo is a good Nintendo in my book
 
#11
Sales wise? Nah, I'm actually discussing this possibility in a humongous editorial I'm righting. In short, the Wii U is already doing better than the gamecube. So much better, that this possibility seems extremely unlikely already. Games wise, I think the Wii U will do much better than the GameCube because it also already is.
Not only did the Wii U have the second most retail launch titles of any video game system, it also had the most highly rated titles in a console's first 5 months of existence. To add a little more, the Wii U was (and I believe still is, but I hadn't researched that far) selling much better than the PS3 and 360 did at launch. You know how much the GameCube sold in 1 year
? 4.7 million. You know how much the PS Vita sold in 1 year
? 4.5 million. You know how much the Wii U sold in 5 months
? 3.4 million. This was all without any major releases while the Gamecube had already pulled out SSBM.

The notion that the Wii U is doing as terrible sales wise as the GameCube is just something people on the internet say to look like they know what they're talking about when in reality, they haven't done that much research.

[hr]
All that being said. Is the Wii U doing great? No because the Wii U could have been doing better if Nintendo had 1st party titles to market the system with, but they don't likely because they had to rush the Wii U out earlier than they wanted to (Wii died quicker than they expected). So the marketing of the Wii U is terrible and is terrible for a reason I believe, but I think things will get a lot better come Q3/Q4 if Nintendo plays their cards right.
So on the question if Nintendo could pull a GameCube, I highly doubt it.

Great post !!!
Cant' wait for your editorial :)
I understand that the Wii U is doing better than the GC, but don't forget that we should compare the Wii U with the wii, not the GC !
if we compare it with GC sales, that's not a good sign...

Yeah that's also being discussed in my editorial haha, but sales wise, the Wii U falls flat on it's face compared to the Wii and that's mainly because it doesn't have the mass appeal the Wii did. Nonetheless, the Wii U actually does have the potential have the same mass appeal the Wii did so I have to call the Wii U's current state compared to the Wii a failure.
Look at what the non-traditional gamers are into today. That's correct, touch screen games particularly on smartphone and tablet devices. The Wii U also is like a tablet device, but the reason why it's not selling well like a tablet device is because it's not being marketed as well as a new device should be so Nintendo better start marketing this console correctly before people find out about the console in a way Nintendo doesn't intend for people to find out about it. People not knowing about the console plays to Nintendo's advantage in a way though because Nintendo is able to essentially beta test their product with all the early adopters. At the same time, since people don't really know what the Wii U is, Nintendo still has the chance to "Wow" people like they did with the Wii, but like I said, they don't have much time to do this and Nintendo is taking a huge risk by 'beta testing' and waiting to market their console.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
#12
Sales wise I am less optimistic for Wii U. I feel like we have a product that doesn't identify with the largest group of gamers, shooters and sports titles, and will be hard pressed to do better than 45 million units. So basically, I think that best case scenario the Wii U will sell SNES numbers, with worst case scenario being Gamecube numbers, and N64 numbers being the most likely at this point. The Wii U isnt the phenom that the Wii was, there is no game coming that will do for the Wii U what Wii Sports did for the Wii. Thats not to say that Nintendo cant be hugely successful with those types of numbers. How much money was Nintendo making from the Virtual console on the Gamecube or N64? None, cause they didnt have them. How much money did Nintendo make from Wiiware/Eshop games? None, cause they didnt have them. Digital is going to create an enormous amount of revenue for Nintendo, and being profitable these days with less units in homes is actually becoming somewhat easier. Nintendo has worked very hard to improve their digital distribution service, and its paying off.

Nintendo did make money the Gamecube generation. Not a ton, but they were profitable. The Xbox division has yet to make money, and Sony is likely still trying to recoup losses from the PS3's first three years of major losses. People can talk all the doom and gloom they want, but Nintendo is healthy as a company. Nintendo also has a lot of flexibility going forward. The cost to manufacture the Wii U drops every day, and by late 2014 Nintendo may be able to sell the Wii U for $149 if things were to start looking desperate.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#13
^
Pretty much what mj said. The Wii U is not going to be the Wii, and it may not even quite get to the higher sales of the PS3 or 360. I'd wager it can do SNES/Genesis numbers, 40-50 million. In doing so, Nintendo won't be taking massive losses-per-console sold (I'd be surprised if the Wii U isn't profitable-per-console sold before too long), they'll still sell their usual first-party stable of games, and the 3DS will continue printing money.
 
#14
Two reasons why I personally skipped Gamecube was the controller and Wind Waker. Those are the reasons I went PS2 that Gen. I went with Wii last Gen because of the controls and Twilight Princess, plus I didn't like how Sony was acting during the PS3 launch, oh and the $600.00 retail sent me packing real fast.

This console has both and amazing controller, impressive third party line up, and the possibility of a truly amazing Zelda. So no personally I don't feel WiiU will be headed down the Gamecube path.
 
#15
Really, I don't think anyone has any idea what the Wii U will become. The console has such an un-established identity, it's like the Wii U hasn't even released yet.
We have developers saying the Wii U could be more popular than the Wii and others saying that Wii U will have a significantly less audience appeal. All persons bring up very good points. People haven't dismissed the Wii U yet (at least the people who know of the console) and people haven't completely backed the Wii U yet.
I guess everyone is just waiting for Nintendo to actually "release" the console.
 
#17
I think its pretty simple, it will be a gamecube plus. Great Nintendo games keeping the console alive but with better third party collaborations ever before seen on previous Nintendo consoles. Plus Monolithsoft, monolithsoft makes everything better.
 
#19
As of right now? No, the Wii U will not be the next Gamecube.

What happened to the Gamecube for me is quite baffling since it got amazing games from 2001-2002.

It's so baffling that I made a thread back in the day titled: "What Went Wrong With The Gamecube" or something like that. :)

The Wii U still hasn't got those high caliber games and it's still doing better than the purple lunch box :D

This holiday season the Wii U will avoid being the next Gamecube, that's for sure.
 

TechnoHobbit

Ash nazg durbatulûk
#20
Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? No. It really depends on the price of the 720 and PS4 in my opinion, and right now they don't look like they'll be threatening the Wii U's price range.
 

Cubits

Well-Known Member
#21
The gamecube was hamstrung by the small disc capacity when it came to multiplat games, so even with its technical parity with the others it could never get the support. The Wii had an incredible following, which forced publishers to participate, but the limitations of the hardware (shaders, architecture, controller input, raw output rates) meant that it was easier to punt out "exclusives" than it was to port across the big-boy games. Thus while it received plenty of software, and from the major publishers, it wasn't the RIGHT software. Would a port of Dead Space have sold better than the (at the time) exclusive DS:Extraction? Probably (even though that game was great).

The WiiU, while it will be less powerful than the ps4/720, supports all of the industry standards used by the other consoles (disc capacity/shaders/architecture, controller input). Despite the naysaying, the vast majority of which can be traced back to political roots, the WiiU will be technically capable of being included in multi-platform releases into the future. It even has an edge in offering unique gameplay opportunities for those games (with a little development overhead), which could see the definitive versions of said games come out on what is arguably the "weakest" system.

*Boards the E3 hype train*
 

DarkKevit

That old bloke from Crete...
#22
I am getting a little baffled and frustrated at the way Nintendo are handling the WiiU, I hate to say it, but I think they are being a little too smug and arrogant with their insistence on 'walking their own path'. Having said that, I loved my GCN, and it did after all make money for Nintendo even with its low sales numbers. I am 100% confident that the WiiU will sell ,more than the GCN, and will make a profit overall for Nintendo. I do think, however, that they have missed a golden opportunity to dominate the console industry this gen.
If the WiiU was sporting power on a par with the Durango and PS4, they would be doing far better with 3rd party support, and with the inevitable exclusive brilliance that WILL come from Nintendo, the WiiU COULD have been the only console anyone needed this gen.
 
#23
I am getting a little baffled and frustrated at the way Nintendo are handling the WiiU, I hate to say it, but I think they are being a little too smug and arrogant with their insistence on 'walking their own path'. Having said that, I loved my GCN, and it did after all make money for Nintendo even with its low sales numbers. I am 100% confident that the WiiU will sell ,more than the GCN, and will make a profit overall for Nintendo. I do think, however, that they have missed a golden opportunity to dominate the console industry this gen.
If the WiiU was sporting power on a par with the Durango and PS4, they would be doing far better with 3rd party support, and with the inevitable exclusive brilliance that WILL come from Nintendo, the WiiU COULD have been the only console anyone needed this gen.
There's still time in my opinion, but I'll talk about that later, one of the reasons being that since nobody knows about this console, it's like Nintendo hasn't even released it yet therefore giving Nintendo a second chance.
Also the power of the PS4 and 720, as far as we know, is mostly talked up and even still, having the most power doesn't mean you get the most quality games. That was proven by the GameCube, PS3 (for 2 years), and more recently, the PS Vita. It's all about sales. The only real significant difference the PS4 and likely the 720 will have over the Wii U is the 8 gigs of RAM. Everything else will just about be on par or slightly better or Sony will face having a really expensive console again.
More memory doesn't give you better textures, rather it makes high-res textures stay high-res for a further range. More memory doesn't make AI more advanced, better physics, etc. What it does do is allow the PS4 to run more tasks without closing the game you're running and it allows for bigger worlds. None of these factors make it so the game can't be ported over to the Wii U so really, in the end, it's all about console sales.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
#24
Other than maybe ram, we have seen the type of disparity in consoles from a single generation before. If you remember, even though the PS2 had a fairly impressive (and complex) CPU, its GPU was outclassed by both the GC and Xbox. In actual games, the Xbox and GC were capable of displaying 2-3 times more polygons per second in games than the PS2. Back when polygons per second were all the rage. Amazing on that can be the benchmark for graphics performance on generation, and then a couple generations later its not even listed. Gflops are still just one aspect of performance. So while the PS4 may be capable of 4-5 times the gflops than the Wii U, that is still only one aspect of performance, and the PS2 vs Xbox saw similar disparity, yet they shared the same games.

Tons of ram is nice for two reasons on the PS4, it gives the GPU and CPU tons of bandwidth to the memory, and it allows developers to use more unique assets and textures than they could otherwise. Ram alone doesnt create the potential for huge draw distance. The GPU would still need to be able to draw everything, and that will likely be the limiting factor with the PS4. The PS4 is a design in which the memory will never be the limiting factor, but that doesnt mean performance is really all that much better than had they used just 4GB of ram. As for the Wii U and its memory, it is limited to the 1GB, but the benefits of super high res textures simply isnt there when your display resolution is likely to be 720P. PS4 is targeting 1080P, so it will benefit from higher res textures than the Wii U would. Same goes for draw distance, can the Wii U gpu draw fast enough to really need much more than 1GB? You see, when you really start looking at it objectively, it becomes pretty obvious that the Wii U is actually pretty well balanced. Its a console that will target 720p, so texture resolution has a diminishing return as you ramp them up, and the GPU isnt a beast, so the draw distance is likely to be limited by the GPU's ability to draw fast enough, and not what it can hold in the ram.
 

Lost_In_Translation

The Man Behind The Curtain
#25
I could see the Wii U being a low-selling console. I don't think it will fall to Gamecube levels, but it's unlikely to be even close to the hit that the Wii was. Which is fine. As far as games go however, I think that's very much left unanswered. The system has only put a few marquee games out thus far, and while there is promise for a number of hot titles coming out later this year, we need to actually play the games to see just how well their console library compares to the Gamecube.
 
#26
Like Mattavelle, I frickin loved my Gamecube and still play those games via my Wii today. So I hardly consider that a "nightmare" from the perspective of a Nintendo fan. But I get what you're saying OP.

Everyone says that the success of the Wii U depends on 3rd party support, but I disagree. 3rd party support is not what made the Wii so wildly popular. It was Wii Sports... particularly the bowling. That singular product was so powerful at selling the Wii that, after playing it, purchasing one was almost something that people couldn't resist. People literally felt like they could have a bowling alley and a tennis court in their living room, and that had never been done before.

You can argue semantics all day about how the Wii U needs 3rd party games, but even with great support, the gamers who are loyal to MS and Sony aren't likely to purchase the Wii U because they simply don't care about it. It's not on their radar, regardless of what games it has. Most people that I've showed the Wii U to love it, but there's nothing there which compels them to purchase one. It's a rather frustrating scenario.

But personally I have to come back to the fact that I am having a blast with the Wii U, and if this turns into a "nightmare scenario", please kindly refrain from waking me up. I-)
 
#27
I don't see WiiU being a GameCube in terms of sales and success for various reasons.

1. Nintendo fans are already on board with the WiiU which means GameCube level sales are guaranteed.
2. The gamepad is unique enough to sway some casuals over.
3. The gamepad is unique enough to sway some PS4/720 gamers over (as a 2nd console) if Nintendo's 1st party games in HD wouldn't be enough.
4. WiiU sales to date have been great considering the zero marketing and perceptually overpriced consoles.
5. The graphical difference between PS4/720 and WiiU will be marginal considering Murphy's law of diminishing returns and the current next gen demos not having nearly the same impact as going from SD to HD had.

Because of all of the above, I think WiiU will sell more than GameCube but a lot less than the Wii. At the same time, I don't think the other consoles will make the same sales numbers as their predecessors which will continue selling well for the next few years.
 

Aki

Well-Known Member
#28
Is the Wii U actually selling that bad or is there too many of them out? The reason I ask is because when I went to pick mine up on launch, there were 10 people in line. I came in about 30 min prior to the store opening and I was number 4. There's also a bunch of units for sale in the local stores around me. However, I've seen a few comments in threads where people have said that Wii U sales are slightly better than those of 360 launch sales.
 

Superfakerbros

ECE 2018
Moderator
#29
Is the Wii U actually selling that bad or is there too many of them out? The reason I ask is because when I went to pick mine up on launch, there were 10 people in line. I came in about 30 min prior to the store opening and I was number 4. There's also a bunch of units for sale in the local stores around me. However, I've seen a few comments in threads where people have said that Wii U sales are slightly better than those of 360 launch sales.
Launch sales were almost Wii-level. After launch...not so much
 

DarkDepths

Your friendly neighbourhood robot overlord
#30
Two reasons why I personally skipped Gamecube was the controller and Wind Waker.
Come over here and say that to my face! =P
Why I don't agree with your sentiments. I found the GameCube controller to be vastly superior to the PS2's. I don't know what it was, but I literally couldn't hold onto the PS2 controller for very long before the stupid thing would start to slip out of the top of my hands. And on top of that, my thumb got all crampy from it.
Also, Wind Waker was, in my personal opinion that I believe should be shared by every single person on the planet, a fantastic game!
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
#38
I mean for real.


I wanted to look back see what people thought years ago and it's really hilarious to me.
WiiU was just a GameCube wannabe. Living in the purple lunchbox' shadow.
I don't remember exactly, but I thought Wii U would sell more than 20m back in the days, maybe 25-30m with enough games.

Well, It'll hardly hit 15m.

The worst Nintendo console ever.

GC is an extraordinary console after all this.
 

GamingFreak1988

The Platformer Guru
#39
I definitely remember thinking it would sell better than gamecube too, though nowhere near wii levels. It was a far cry from that, but my thoughts changed pretty quickly, 2013 to be fair that it wouldn't be near what I had guessed, 2014 all but assured it in my mind.
 

TechnoHobbit

Ash nazg durbatulûk
#40
Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? No. It really depends on the price of the 720 and PS4 in my opinion, and right now they don't look like they'll be threatening the Wii U's price range.
I was afraid I would be totally embarrassed by this thread, but my post was actual pretty reasonable.

The PS4 being $399 (just $50 more than the Wii U was at the time of this thread) was a large nail in the Wii U's coffin, making a recovery near impossible.
 

Majorbuddah

My real name is Dolemite
#42
The PS4 being $399 (just $50 more than the Wii U was at the time of this thread) was a large nail in the Wii U's coffin, making a recovery near impossible.
xb1 and ps4 being way better in all other aspects has more to do with it. ps4 could obviously cost more while far outselling the wii u, and wii u can't sell at all.
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
#43
xb1 and ps4 being way better in all other aspects has more to do with it. ps4 could obviously cost more while far outselling the wii u, and wii u can't sell at all.
just as the wii u didn't prove the necessity of the gamepad, neither did the ps4 or xbone prove the necessity of a console generation jump, and really still haven't...

so I argue that it wasn't the quality of those systems that mad eit outsell the wii u, but rather a matter of reputation and marketing

nintendo's reputation was in the toilet at the end of the wii generation, the new audience moved on to smartphones, the old audience felt burned and lost interest in the company... then you have the marketing... from the crap name (the smaller problem) to the miscommunication about what the system was, the wii u marketing was a disaster, while the ps4 marketing was nearly flawless, and the xbone marketing was basically, well, suitable...

hell, years into the life of the wii u there were still reports coming out of mainstream sources like cnn and msn and major papers like the Times that thought the wii u was a tablet that worked on the wii. As the confusion grew, nintendo did NOTHING to correct it, and instead basically retreated, only returning to market major games like Mario Kart 8 and Splatoon, which they did a fine job on.... not great like what sony had been doing, but good, like what microsoft had been doing... unfortunately, by that time anybody who knew what a wii u was thought it was a graveyard

so yeah... to me the failure of the wii u is attributed to these things

1. the casual audience leaving for phones and tablets, and facebook even
2. the core audience burned out after the Wii was run thoroughly into the ground with unnecessarily outdated technology, even a small improvement could have let them use hardware shaders and run in low hd resolutions....
3. Nintendo was doing an absolute shit job of marketing their franchises, thankfully this seems to be improving based on talk of theme parks and movies.
4. there was MASS confusion over what the wii u was, even YEARS into the system's life, and nintendo did not act to correct the misconceptions... I attribute this to the lack of marketing agency given to NoA and NoE... the japanese execs were not seeing the confusion as quickly as they should have been.
5. when the system took on the perception of being a graveyard, nintendo, once again, did NOTHING to fight that perception, I think that by that time NX was already being sped up, they knew the wii u had already failed and just were not bothering... from a base perspective that seems fine.. the wii u failed, so ignore it and move on.... but the gaming industry leans so heavily on consumer mindshare that it might have an adverse effect on the NX just as the wii's horrible decline did to the wii.

I went to universal studios with my mom this month, and braved the crowds to enjoy Harry Potter world.... I honestly think, after this experience, that a strong theme park presence (in MULTIPLE parks, not a super slow roll out) could do wonders for the company... especially if they can get the kind of magic that harry potter world had... being able to get butter beer and pumpkin juice was meaningful, as were the interactive wands that you could use around the place if nintendo can do something similar... and then even find really cool rides to go along with it (like mario kart go karts... think the badass go kart track at disneyland, but modernized and with an almost mini-golf esque wacky aesthetic)... but they should go beyond that.... have demo kiosks with an e3 like experience, constantly showing games that are not out yet... have regular tournaments for smash every day... and have a mini nintendo world store there.... better yet sell limtied edition material you cna only get there... special amiibos, maybe hard copies of digital only games, or special editions you can only get there... maybe you can find nfc tags around the area that unlock special outfits in miitomo... that kind of thing...

then movies... go to a major company like pixar, disney aniamtion, or dreamworks and start a connected universe.... some people think this is crazy, but I think if they take the wreck it Ralph approach and go super meta, it could work.. give each major franchise their own movies, then do a big meta smash bros team up cross-over... and take the pixar approach of including animated shorts before the movies... this can help introduce audiences to new franchises... before a mario movie, have a pikmin short, before a zelda movie have a metroid short, before the next pokemon movie have a splatoon short

that is what I think nintendo needs to fix more than anythign else.. brand awareness... because minecraft is eating their lunch
 

GamingFreak1988

The Platformer Guru
#44
The price of the ps4 and xboxone after the removal of kinect definitely hurt the wiiu, but also killed the 360 and ps3 rather fast cause they were what like only $100 less than the new systems? "only talking about the harddrive models of them" Made it hard for people to keep buying them. No cheap impulse late adopter buyers for that price point for years to come.

The bad stigma of the wiiu but especially the confusion they never fixed..... inexcusable to still hear people thinking the tablet is a controller for the wii in 2016... Price quickly added on top of the already many problems the system had. Not many cheap secondary system buyers.
 

Majorbuddah

My real name is Dolemite
#45
The PS4 being $399 (just $50 more than the Wii U was at the time of this thread) was a large nail in the Wii U's coffin, making a recovery near impossible.
just as the wii u didn't prove the necessity of the gamepad, neither did the ps4 or xbone prove the necessity of a console generation jump, and really still haven't...

so I argue that it wasn't the quality of those systems that mad eit outsell the wii u, but rather a matter of reputation and marketing

nintendo's reputation was in the toilet at the end of the wii generation, the new audience moved on to smartphones, the old audience felt burned and lost interest in the company... then you have the marketing... from the crap name (the smaller problem) to the miscommunication about what the system was, the wii u marketing was a disaster, while the ps4 marketing was nearly flawless, and the xbone marketing was basically, well, suitable...

hell, years into the life of the wii u there were still reports coming out of mainstream sources like cnn and msn and major papers like the Times that thought the wii u was a tablet that worked on the wii. As the confusion grew, nintendo did NOTHING to correct it, and instead basically retreated, only returning to market major games like Mario Kart 8 and Splatoon, which they did a fine job on.... not great like what sony had been doing, but good, like what microsoft had been doing... unfortunately, by that time anybody who knew what a wii u was thought it was a graveyard

so yeah... to me the failure of the wii u is attributed to these things

1. the casual audience leaving for phones and tablets, and facebook even
2. the core audience burned out after the Wii was run thoroughly into the ground with unnecessarily outdated technology, even a small improvement could have let them use hardware shaders and run in low hd resolutions....
3. Nintendo was doing an absolute shit job of marketing their franchises, thankfully this seems to be improving based on talk of theme parks and movies.
4. there was MASS confusion over what the wii u was, even YEARS into the system's life, and nintendo did not act to correct the misconceptions... I attribute this to the lack of marketing agency given to NoA and NoE... the japanese execs were not seeing the confusion as quickly as they should have been.
5. when the system took on the perception of being a graveyard, nintendo, once again, did NOTHING to fight that perception, I think that by that time NX was already being sped up, they knew the wii u had already failed and just were not bothering... from a base perspective that seems fine.. the wii u failed, so ignore it and move on.... but the gaming industry leans so heavily on consumer mindshare that it might have an adverse effect on the NX just as the wii's horrible decline did to the wii.

I went to universal studios with my mom this month, and braved the crowds to enjoy Harry Potter world.... I honestly think, after this experience, that a strong theme park presence (in MULTIPLE parks, not a super slow roll out) could do wonders for the company... especially if they can get the kind of magic that harry potter world had... being able to get butter beer and pumpkin juice was meaningful, as were the interactive wands that you could use around the place if nintendo can do something similar... and then even find really cool rides to go along with it (like mario kart go karts... think the badass go kart track at disneyland, but modernized and with an almost mini-golf esque wacky aesthetic)... but they should go beyond that.... have demo kiosks with an e3 like experience, constantly showing games that are not out yet... have regular tournaments for smash every day... and have a mini nintendo world store there.... better yet sell limtied edition material you cna only get there... special amiibos, maybe hard copies of digital only games, or special editions you can only get there... maybe you can find nfc tags around the area that unlock special outfits in miitomo... that kind of thing...

then movies... go to a major company like pixar, disney aniamtion, or dreamworks and start a connected universe.... some people think this is crazy, but I think if they take the wreck it Ralph approach and go super meta, it could work.. give each major franchise their own movies, then do a big meta smash bros team up cross-over... and take the pixar approach of including animated shorts before the movies... this can help introduce audiences to new franchises... before a mario movie, have a pikmin short, before a zelda movie have a metroid short, before the next pokemon movie have a splatoon short

that is what I think nintendo needs to fix more than anythign else.. brand awareness... because minecraft is eating their lunch

whether you personally appreciate better graphics and higher fidelity, or not... it doesn't matter. most other gamers do. the hardware of 360 and ps3 limited (negated) their ability to advance in those categories, therefore xb1 and ps4 were necessary. you can make the argument that great presentation =/= great gameplay, but no one is insisting otherwise. you're simply insisting that presentation isn't important.

you liked the harry potter thing because of how well it was presented; i bet the budweiser tasted like budweiser.
 

Majorbuddah

My real name is Dolemite
#46
The price of the ps4 and xboxone after the removal of kinect definitely hurt the wiiu, but also killed the 360 and ps3 rather fast cause they were what like only $100 less than the new systems? "only talking about the harddrive models of them" Made it hard for people to keep buying them. No cheap impulse late adopter buyers for that price point for years to come.

The bad stigma of the wiiu but especially the confusion they never fixed..... inexcusable to still hear people thinking the tablet is a controller for the wii in 2016... Price quickly added on top of the already many problems the system had. Not many cheap secondary system buyers.
the ps3 and 360 being old af are what killed them. what am i gonna buy a 3rd 360 and a 3rd ps3 now? please. ps4 and xb1 made them obsolete in both performance and support. it wasn't a price race. you could get a 360 for $99 when xb1 launched at $499.
 

GamingFreak1988

The Platformer Guru
#47
I've never seen a hard drive 360 for $99 unless a fire sale or something happened, 4gb ones yes though you basically become forced to buy a hard drive very fast from some big games needing mandatory installations on the 360, ps3 i have no clue how many do but the 12gb model would probably run into the same problem. And i was mostly referring to people who like super cheap systems that generally don't buy consoles during their peak lifespan but at the end to grab everything for cheap or for those who decide to pick up the alternatives to catch up on exclusives they missed. not people like you and I who regularly buy multiple consoles within the first 3 years a system is on the market.

Yes you can get them on sale for much cheaper but it doesn't change the fact their premium model msrp basically stayed $300 until they went out of production. With the huge volume of games they had I don't believe for a second there sells wouldn't have dropped off a cliff if their normal prices were $99 and $199. The next gen systems basically being $100 or less from older ones made it very hard for anyone to consider buying them except for replacements, or the cheap hard driveless $99 when on sale models. Ps2 continued to sell well into the 360 and ps3 generation from the large library and cheap $130 to eventually $99 price point. I don't see why the 360 or ps3 couldn't have either.
 
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theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
#49
whether you personally appreciate better graphics and higher fidelity, or not... it doesn't matter. most other gamers do. the hardware of 360 and ps3 limited (negated) their ability to advance in those categories, therefore xb1 and ps4 were necessary. you can make the argument that great presentation =/= great gameplay, but no one is insisting otherwise. you're simply insisting that presentation isn't important.

you liked the harry potter thing because of how well it was presented; i bet the budweiser tasted like budweiser.
my point is that at launch there wasn't anything that demonstrated the need for a more powerful system, nothing on the ps4 or xbone was looking all that better than gta5 on the ps3 and 360... and even now that some games do look vastly better... like uncharted 4, it is more of the exception than the rule.... the step up from the ps3 to the ps4 just wasn't a leap in the way the jump from ps2 to ps3 was





butter beer isn't beer, in the same way root beer isn't. It is a fictitious butterscotch drink that they made real for Harry Potter world, as in, it is the only thing of its kind and can only be had at harry potter world... people could probably figure out the recipe and remake it themselves, but it is layered in a way that make bottling it not really possible, and the base soda isn't really like anything I have had before either, and i have tried lots of strange sodas... that was my point with the butterbeer thing.. it is a thing you can only get there, and that, in combination with the overall experience is part of what will drive people to repeat visit... to take in the sights and enjoy the ambiance while sipping a butterbeer... it is why people were paying $5 for the drink, and another 5 for a cheap plastic mug to drink it from... everyone i saw in harry potter world was carrying a mug of butterbeer... and I have ehard stories of people restarting all of the books over after visiting, or rewatching all of the movies... because what it does is reinvigorate interest, which is why nintendo should make the msot of their theme park plans
 

GamingFreak1988

The Platformer Guru
#50
360 and ps3 also had a lot higher level parts put into them, basically losing like over $100 per system for the higher end models "from what part breakdown articles were" back at their launches. Especially sony. That wasn't the case with ps4 and xboxone they were built to make a profit fairly quick. They basically didn't want to sell $500+ hardware [ not counting the kinect that was removed fromt he xboxone in this equation] for $400 this time around. So the gap is smaller, But still a big enough gap that many gamers are pleased enough with. Though some of the more tech enthusiasts aren't as pleased this time.

That's one reason I had little interest in the 3ds " others were ds lites breaking on me and the $250 launch price", I'm kind of tired of playing games that look like six gen games but for full price " don't mind indie games one bit cause they're naturally much cheaper at launch". One reason i grabbed a wiiu so fast, I was excited to see nintendo games on stronger hardware. It was there first actual jump since basically 2001.
 
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