Kamiya Said He Wanted to Make a Game Where Bayonetta and Dante Meet, Would You Like That?

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#1
That's a rhetorical question, because I know the answer is yes. Also, it would be a tag team game because having them fight is retarded as hell and Kamiya even said that.

https://nintendoeverything.com/hide...bayonetta-in-project-x-zone-2-now-regrets-it/
He was offered to put Bayonetta in Project X Zone 2, but declined for the very reason that he wanted his own Bayonetta/Devil May Cry crossover. However, the idea still hasn't come to fruition on a professional level, only on Hideki Kamiya's Twitter account.

We haven't really seen a character action game with tag team mechanics before, despite the fact that it's super popular in fighting games, so this could be a chance to bring some real innovation to the genre, not that it's stagnating or anything (it's really not, especially when you consider how different most action games play and how so few of them are released). Being able to swap between two characters while also having access to tag team fighter style movesets like the Variable Cross from Marvel vs. Capcom, Assists from Marvel vs. Capcom 2, or the tag team juggling from Tekken Tag Tournament with the mid air combos of Tatsunoko vs. Capcom and MvC3. The mid air combo potential from this sort of tag team gameplay would be nothing short of mind blowing. In addition to that, being able to have the characters meet and mix personalities without having to resort to awful fanfiction would be awesome too.

Also, yes, I realize I could have posted this in my Nintendo IP ideas thread, but this idea was awesome enough to become its own thing.
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
#2
I would say no actually...I mean I would take it if it was there, but crossovers in videogames are never as good as the original properties are by themselves... So I just think if Kamiya did everything he could with both Dante and Bayonetta, I would rather him make an entirely new franchise in that style...I would take that over a crossover any day.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#4
I would say no actually...I mean I would take it if it was there, but crossovers in videogames are never as good as the original properties are by themselves... So I just think if Kamiya did everything he could with both Dante and Bayonetta, I would rather him make an entirely new franchise in that style...I would take that over a crossover any day.
A good majority of crossover fighting games were excellent though.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#6
Can we get a Legendary Dark Knight style mode for Bayonetta 3 please Platinum? I understand the Wii U was way too underpowered to handle such a mode in Bayonetta 2 considering the game already rarely reached 60 FPS consistently, but considering the Switch is a considerable upgrade (docked), this should be a no brainer.
They should do a Dynasty Warrior like game with characters from both universes. I would probably play that.
I would absolutely love to have something like Devil May Cry 4's Legendary Dark Knight mode in a Bayonetta game, or a crossover game. However, something like Dynasty Warriors just wouldn't fit the style of Devil May Cry or Bayonetta. The latter two franchises are supposed to deep character action titles meant to replicate fighting games in a 3D space, whereas Dynasty Warriors is a button masher. Two totally different things. It would be like saying that they need to do a Nioh-like game.
 
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GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#8
As good as the originals? Name 1
Marvel vs. Capcom 2 is considered to be one of the best fighters ever made and Capcom vs. SNK 2 was also pretty damn amazing.

Yes, it's cheesy fanservice, but that's basically the point. These games aren't supposed to take themselves that seriously, because when they do, we get DmC: Devil May Cry.
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
#9
Marvel vs. Capcom 2 is considered to be one of the best fighters ever made and Capcom vs. SNK 2 was also pretty damn amazing.

Yes, it's cheesy fanservice, but that's basically the point. These games aren't supposed to take themselves that seriously, because when they do, we get DmC: Devil May Cry.
But are either as good as Street Fighter 2?
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#11
They feature more characters and deeper, more fined combat systems, so I'd say so.
Yeah it really depends on who you ask. Capcom vs SNK 2 was still featured in a tournament this month during EVO Japan. Marvel vs Capcom 2 is considered the absolute best fighting game for a lot of people in the FGC. But Street Fighter 2 is unparalleled as a financial success if I'm not mistaken. There's a great range of accessibility and depth to it.

I love watching Street Fighter 2 matches. Sometimes they're like a fine dance:


And sometimes they're absolute bonkers:

 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
#12
Street Fighter 2 is the most pure fighter there is, it came before combos were programmed in with counters... It was all about natural combo timing
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#15
People still play SF2 in tournaments? Didn't know that :mshock:
There are communities for practically every fighting game that has ever existed, who occasionally organize their own tournaments. Some of the more popular games, like SF2, SF Alpha 3, Capcom vs SNK 2, Marvel vs Capcom 2, and Darkstalkers 3, sometimes get "side tournaments" during major tournaments like EVO.

Then there's Street Fighter 3: Third Strike, which still has its own major tournament year after year, called the Cooperation Cup.


For those that get really into them, fighting games are less of a game and more of a lifestyle.
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
#16
There are communities for practically every fighting game that has ever existed, who occasionally organize their own tournaments. Some of the more popular games, like SF2, SF Alpha 3, Capcom vs SNK 2, Marvel vs Capcom 2, and Darkstalkers 3, sometimes get "side tournaments" during major tournaments like EVO.

Then there's Street Fighter 3: Third Strike, which still has its own major tournament year after year, called the Cooperation Cup.


For those that get really into them, fighting games are less of a game and more of a lifestyle.
Fighting games are cool, but I never really got them. I see so much enthusiasm, like for Smash, but I can't be part of it. It's for those who have fast fingers.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#18
If you think about it, character action titles are an evolution of fighting games adapted to a beat em' up format.
Beat em ups were already that because they were often made by people that knew how to make fighting games. For example, the Final Fight team was the same as the Street Fighter team. I'd simply say games like Bayo are still Beat Em Up games, just in 3D. A 3D Beat Em Up.

I don't like the phrase "character action" for these games because it doesn't tell you anything about them. We know that a sandbox game is about freely playing like a kid would in a sandbox, and we know that a role-playing game is a game about roleplaying. But a character action game is...a game about a character doing action stuff? Like what, Zelda? Mario? Dark Souls?

Beat em up tells you exactly what it's about: you beat the bad guys up. And then you beat more of em up. If I tell you that I'm playing a 3D Beat Em Up this week, you know exactly what kind of game I'm playing even if you've never heard the term before.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#20
Also best em ups predate fighters so it is kind of the other way around...a fighting game is a head to head beat em up
The earliest fighting game I could think of was Karate Champ, which turns out to be from 1984, while the earliest beat em up is Kung Fu Master also from 1984, a few months later.

Apparently, Kung Fu Master was originally a license tie-in for a Jackie Chan movie. The More You Know.
 

mattavelle1

Crunk Ain’t Dead!!!
Moderator
#21
The earliest fighting game I could think of was Karate Champ, which turns out to be from 1984, while the earliest beat em up is Kung Fu Master also from 1984, a few months later.

Apparently, Kung Fu Master was originally a license tie-in for a Jackie Chan movie. The More You Know.
Owned both as a kid. Kung Fu was worth owning, I can not say that for Karate Champ
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
#22
The earliest fighting game I could think of was Karate Champ, which turns out to be from 1984, while the earliest beat em up is Kung Fu Master also from 1984, a few months later.

Apparently, Kung Fu Master was originally a license tie-in for a Jackie Chan movie. The More You Know.
well then lets put it this way, the fighting game didn't become popular until the beat em up was already a well established genre, so even if 1 fighter came first, it was an anomoly... fights weren't popular until street fighter 2 with most having never ehard of street fighter or fighting street until having played sf2.... beat em ups were successful pretty much from day 1
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#23
well then lets put it this way, the fighting game didn't become popular until the beat em up was already a well established genre, so even if 1 fighter came first, it was an anomoly... fights weren't popular until street fighter 2 with most having never ehard of street fighter or fighting street until having played sf2.... beat em ups were successful pretty much from day 1
That's fair, but I think it still comes down to this one thing: most fighting games emulate Street Fighter 2, and most beat em ups (especially Kamiya's) emulate Final Fight. Both were made by the same team at around the same time using their own core principles.

So I think GaemzDood's post should have been more like "Kamiya's games follow the core principles laid down by Final Fight and Street Fighter, and the rest of the industry are just copying him."
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
#24
That's fair, but I think it still comes down to this one thing: most fighting games emulate Street Fighter 2, and most beat em ups (especially Kamiya's) emulate Streets of Rage. Both were made by the same team at around the same time using their own core principles.

So I think GaemzDood's post should have been more like "Kamiya's games follow the core principles laid down by Final Fight and Street Fighter, and the rest of the industry are just copying him."
I fixed that for you. :p
 

mattavelle1

Crunk Ain’t Dead!!!
Moderator
#25
That's fair, but I think it still comes down to this one thing: most fighting games emulate Street Fighter 2, and most beat em ups (especially Kamiya's) emulate Final Fight. Both were made by the same team at around the same time using their own core principles.

So I think GaemzDood's post should have been more like "Kamiya's games follow the core principles laid down by Final Fight and Street Fighter, and the rest of the industry are just copying him."
I fixed it back @Goodtwin . Let’s keep the boards clean and error free please:mkiss:
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
#27
If you think about it, character action titles are an evolution of fighting games adapted to a beat em' up format.
Beat em ups were already that because they were often made by people that knew how to make fighting games. For example, the Final Fight team was the same as the Street Fighter team. I'd simply say games like Bayo are still Beat Em Up games, just in 3D. A 3D Beat Em Up.
That's fair, but I think it still comes down to this one thing: most fighting games emulate Street Fighter 2, and most beat em ups (especially Kamiya's) emulate Final Fight. Both were made by the same team at around the same time using their own core principles.
From my perspective, I think somehow Beat em up games ended up turning into adapted fighting games. Because back in the days I was rubbish at Street Fighter and MK, but good at Final Fight. It was mostly just dashing buttons, at least on SNES.

However, playing DMC is a little bit complicated for me, I just keep dashing buttons and it doesn't work very well. Bayo seems even more complicated for me.

When I play a Beat and up today, I don't feel like I'm playing those SNES, PS and PS2 beat and ups. That's basically why I don't enjoy them anymore.
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
#30
In other words, which came first? The chicken or the egg?
If you were to say the chicken or the chicken egg it would be the chicken egg, but when you just say egg you have many pre chicken iterations of both the chicken and the egg, and 1 of those pre chickens likely didn't come from an egg (as we think of eggs at least)
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
#31
As for where this discussion sprung from, and the title of the OP, I still argue that crossovers are never as good as the originals, ESPECIALLY when it comes to narratives
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#32
If you were to say the chicken or the chicken egg it would be the chicken egg, but when you just say egg you have many pre chicken iterations of both the chicken and the egg, and 1 of those pre chickens likely didn't come from an egg (as we think of eggs at least)
theMightyME is woke.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#33
As for where this discussion sprung from, and the title of the OP, I still argue that crossovers are never as good as the originals, ESPECIALLY when it comes to narratives
Well yeah, it's literally fanfiction. It's never going to be as good as a main installment. But Devil May Cry and Bayonetta thrive on silliness, though they can have serious moments. The last time Devil May Cry attempted a serious grimdark narrative, we got DmC.
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
#34
Not saying it should be serious, but crossovers aren't even entertaining in the narrative (for the most part) they are painful to sit through,I would rather have real new entries if each of even just 1 of them
 
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