Let's talk Armillo!

sjmartin79

White Phoenix of the Crown
#51
Loved the trailers for this game! Can't wait to play it.

The 2D and 3D platforming bring together two amazing types of gameplay in one game that I love. This will definitely be a download for me upon release.

Thanks for taking the time to share all that you have and for putting the game on my radar! :)
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#53
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret-developers-wii-u-the-inside-story

Whats you're guy's take on this?

I think it's no surprise Nintendo had some issues early on with hardware and documentation, so seeing this doesn't really surprise me. What does surprise me however is that this person (whoever they are, but there are hints as to where this guys works or did work) said as if these problems still persist. And yet it appears to me that he hasn't worked with Nintendo since launch or something. Just based on what he said about not making anymore titles for the Wii U after this one (whatever the game was) suggests he or she is currently not using the hardware, or even talking with Nintendo. And then we have all these Indie devs who for the most part have nothing, but raise for Nintendo and the Wii U. In fact, one of the only criticisms I've heard recently is the layout of the eShop, and how the IU could be better not just for navigation, but for exposure on Indie games and whatnot.
I know FuzzyWuzzy are under NDA, but maybe a couple of details from that article to answer some questions? Because that article seemed to create more questions than answers I think.
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#54
That article should be a testament to why you respect the NDA.

Otherwise people are coming to crackle your apple jacks and knock you sideways

Either way there is a dearth of inconsistencies in how this person even talks about the architecture and the general make up of whats been going on with this system
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#57
That article should be a testament to why you respect the NDA.

Otherwise people are coming to crackle your apple jacks and knock you sideways

Either way there is a dearth of inconsistencies in how this person even talks about the architecture and the general make up of whats been going on with this system

And that's my thing. I don't know what to believe anymore. Like I've said, I love knowing the inner working of stuff and technical know-how, but with all this back and forth going around with one side saying one thing, and another group saying the opposite, it's now making me become fed up with wanting to know. Perhaps Nintendo feels the general public doesn't deserve to know, and I could respect that.
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#58
Nintendo's far less concerned with the tech than the experience they give you as the end user.

They dont talk tech, they talk games and ease of use

As for the general public?

Well we see how they react when their favorite exclusive on one of Sony's consoles go multiplat. Poor Namco, poor Capcom, poor konami, poor Atlus.

This is all I have to say about those people
https://twitter.com/ValeFalkren/status/422043596640903168


I think Nintendo's going to come strong out the gate next gen. Their work with the 3DS, the WiiU and their other hardware experiments I think will give us something really special
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#59
I think so too. And just having @FuzzyWuzzyGames take the time to answer some questions about their upcoming game, and how Nintendo is to work with, I am excited. :)
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#60
Looks GOAT tier. Can't wait for the PC demo. What specs are you planning on optimizing it for on the lowest?

I'm currently developing the PC version off of my laptop, which has a NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M. Minimum spec should be somewhat lower than that, with at least a shader 3.0 videocard.
You're awesome.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
#61
Im late to the party, but its cool as hell to have a developers perspective on things. I guess more so than asking questions about the hardware, how about a breakdown of the game itself? Shaders, lighting, particle effects, what do you have going on. Also, are you able to write low level code, or are you limited by the toolset? I think we would be interested to know what effects this Wii U build is getting that would have been either impossible or undesireable on the 360.
 
#62
So these are just my own personal opinions here.
Just some background information about me, I've worked on the professional industry for 8 years as a programmer. I've never touched PS4 or Xbox One development so I can't comment much on those. I also don't have any experience with the pre-launch Wii U development, but one thing is that I've been through a number of other pre-launch console development and talked to a number of developers with their experience on many of them, and I haven't heard of a single one that wasn't problematic in many ways during that period. It's just the reality of development - they provide you with the tools and hardware before anything is finalized, you'll get lots of things that just doesn't work because lots of things are still changing. Tech support is super busy because they're dealing with a new system that they've just learned about. I'll bet chances are that you can probably write a similar article for many other platforms like this talking about how terrible developing their hardware was during the pre-launch days. This is also the time when the console development team is the busiest where they have to not only create a ton of new software, drivers, etc. for this new console, but also work on fixing bugs, supporting development teams, and working with new hardware revisions. So even on other console platforms, it wasn't unusual to see a major hindering bug and not have it patched for a month or so. It almost sounds like the person who wrote the article never worked on other consoles pre-launch - I hope that's not the case otherwise it'll signal an unfair bias towards the Wii U.
Under NDA, I can't reveal anything specific. But generally speaking, working on post-launch development on the Wii U, I'd say development environment is pretty good and stable. Support is fast and they keep coming up with new tools to make things easier.
I also think the CPU is fine even though it's slower than the 360, although I'm sure that will be more challenging to AAA developers compared to Indie developers. It's the difference between code that has been through the hands of 1-3 developers versus 50-200 developers, which leads to a lot of code overheard with a lot more people working on it. I've worked as an optimizer for various commercial games. I always find that no matter what, there will always be room for cpu optimizations - it all depends on how much effort you put into it (like that article says, he wished he had more time to do some optimizations). There's a good chance that not as much effort is being placed on the Nintendo platforms here due to sales forecast, so we're seeing games that are slower than other platforms like CoD: Ghosts.
But the thing that I agree on is that most AAA developers are dropping the system more due to their sales figures. But what I disagree on is the other points where the games are not appearing due to development teams being put off due to the poor tool chain, hardware, and technical support - in big game companies, the developers rarely have a say on this. But it's generally the higher ups/execs who decide whether the games get canned. Sadly, it's rarely about the development process, but more of what money it can make the company.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
#63
Sales do impact things. The game industry is still a business after all. What gets Nintendo gamers pissed off is when publishers throw a half baked port to Wii U to test the waters. Go all in, or dont do it at all. Why should Nintendo gamers have to buy an inferior version of a game just to get future support.
 
#64
I've discussed with the front page staff the possibility of starting up a sort of indirect counter series perhaps dubbed "The Public Developers", because accountability matters. The purpose would be to give interviewees the chance to express their content or discontent with Nintendo through their own experiences developing games for their platforms. Potentially hoping to get in contact with developers both big and small.
I think that response as well as others in this thread would be a great way to kick off such a series. Very interesting stuff FuzzyWuzzyGames. Thanks for giving us the time.
 
#65
And who knows, we could possibly start up the series on Gaming Enthusiast for Sony and Microsoft's platforms.
All I know is that there should be a lot to gain from connecting developers with their consumers.
 
#66
Im late to the party, but its cool as hell to have a developers perspective on things. I guess more so than asking questions about the hardware, how about a breakdown of the game itself? Shaders, lighting, particle effects, what do you have going on. Also, are you able to write low level code, or are you limited by the toolset? I think we would be interested to know what effects this Wii U build is getting that would have been either impossible or undesireable on the 360.
Shaders - I'd say nothing too elaborate here. I haven't worked on anything that can't be supported beyond the shader 3.0 model. But I've recently got some help from a technical artist who is trying out an energy conserving shader and HDR in our game and it's looking really nice so far. We'll have to see how far we can get this and how well it works on the Wii U.
Lighting - We're using a mix of dynamic lighting and light maps on some levels. Again, nothing too elaborate here.
Particle Effects - I'd say here is where the Wii U version will shine over the 360's XNA version, mainly because on the 360 version, I had coded a rough limited custom particle system engine that is hard coded. Now on the Wii U, I'm using Unity and using the FX Maker plugin, which makes life so much easier. Takes minutes to create, tune, and spawn a new particle effect and it looks way nicer.
Low level code? Yep, it's possible through Unity's plug-in system.
 
#67
Why should Nintendo gamers have to buy an inferior version of a game just to get future support.
Now I want to do an article (series?) where we front and center gamers' contents and discontents with the way the industry works today. That way developers can keep in touch with reality and avoid easy mistakes. Indie developers seem to be the ones most in touch with the gaming community.

@FuzzyWuzzyGames Any experience developing with the Nintendo 3DS or any plans to do so?
Are there any discontents with the way Nintendo has been operating or with Nintendo's hardware (region-locking, marketing, etc) that you'd like to express or has it been all good from a development standpoint?
 
#68
I think it's safe to say that most here are going to be purchasing Armillo.

Before I purchase a new game, I typically go through this whole analysis stage by doing things such as watching trailers, but even after doing this with Armillo, I feel more secure about making my purchase simply because there's an established sense of trust that has been made between consumer and developer.

I dunno. Anyone else feel this way?
 
#69
Why should Nintendo gamers have to buy an inferior version of a game just to get future support.
Now I want to do an article (series?) where we front and center gamers' contents and discontents with the way the industry works today. That way developers can keep in touch with reality and avoid easy mistakes. Indie developers seem to be the ones most in touch with the gaming community.

@FuzzyWuzzyGames Any experience developing with the Nintendo 3DS or any plans to do so?
Are there any discontent with the way Nintendo has been operating or with Nintendo's hardware (region-locking, marketing, etc) that you'd like to express or has it been all good from a development standpoint?
No experience with the 3DS. But I would really love to work on that system. Only problem is that we're doing all our development work in Unity and there is currently no 3DS support for it. Doesn't mean I'm going to close the door on it - I still would look into developing for it through other means.
Oh yeah. My complaints are probably similar to most people. They need to be more smart and aggressive about advertising the Wii U. The system is like something that you get excited about when you actually play it, but I don't really feel it when I see their advertisements. They need to show what makes the Wii U unique - off TV play, second screen touch screen, Miiverse community, asymmetric multiplayer, TVii, etc. The original Wii had advertisements showing why it's unique which really helped. This time, seeing some of their Wii U advertisements, I just see that it's a Wii upgrade - a controller attachment perhaps? It's not very clear.
From the development standpoint, I'd say they need to be a bit more organized on the getting started part and documentation organization. I'm generally not the type of person who'd like to ask help, so I was kind of trying to figure out where to start development and made a few mistakes along the way until I finally e-mailed tech support. Should have done that in the first place as they're great! Then again, my experience with gaming companies in the past is that it's next to impossible to keep your documentation well organized and structured, so I'll let that be a minor issue.
 
#70
Why should Nintendo gamers have to buy an inferior version of a game just to get future support.
Now I want to do an article (series?) where we front and center gamers' contents and discontents with the way the industry works today. That way developers can keep in touch with reality and avoid easy mistakes. Indie developers seem to be the ones most in touch with the gaming community.

@FuzzyWuzzyGames Any experience developing with the Nintendo 3DS or any plans to do so?
Are there any discontent with the way Nintendo has been operating or with Nintendo's hardware (region-locking, marketing, etc) that you'd like to express or has it been all good from a development standpoint?
No experience with the 3DS. But I would really love to work on that system. Only problem is that we're doing all our development work in Unity and there is currently no 3DS support for it. Doesn't mean I'm going to close the door on it - I still would look into developing for it through other means.
Oh yeah. My complaints are probably similar to most people. They need to be more smart and aggressive about advertising the Wii U. The system is like something that you get excited about when you actually play it, but I don't really feel it when I see their advertisements. They need to show what makes the Wii U unique - off TV play, second screen touch screen, Miiverse community, asymmetric multiplayer, TVii, etc. The original Wii had advertisements showing why it's unique which really helped. This time, seeing some of their Wii U advertisements, I just see that it's a Wii upgrade - a controller attachment perhaps? It's not very clear.
From the development standpoint, I'd say they need to be a bit more organized on the getting started part and documentation organization. I'm generally not the type of person who'd like to ask help, so I was kind of trying to figure out where to start development and made a few mistakes along the way until I finally e-mailed tech support. Should have done that in the first place as they're great! Then again, my experience with gaming companies in the past is that it's next to impossible to keep your documentation well organized and structured, so I'll let that be a minor issue.
Very interesting that you say that about the 3DS as I just got done talking with another developer (Visionaries777) who uses Unity to develop their virtual reality centered games. They too pointed out the same roadblock. Seems like there would be a bigger indie presence on the 3DS than there already is had Unity3D been supported on the system. Hopefully Nintendo is working to get that issue solved.
I totally relate your sentiments on their advertising as well and have seen it in action at that too. At first glance, the whole idea of the Wii U seems a bit confusing by the way they advertise, as there are a lot of uncertainties left unaddressed. There's also a lot of features the Wii U has that the public wouldn't know about from Nintendo's current advertising efforts. Even I almost forgot that services such as Wii U Chat exist haha.
Great stuff. So how long has Armillo been in development for? (Think that's really my last inquiry)
 
#71
Very interesting that you say that about the 3DS as I just got done talking with another developer (Visionaries777) who uses Unity to develop their virtual reality centered games. They too pointed out the same roadblock. Seems like there would be a bigger indie presence on the 3DS than there already is had Unity3D been supported on the system. Hopefully Nintendo is working to get that issue solved.
I totally relate your sentiments on their advertising as well and have seen it in action at that too. At first glance, the whole idea of the Wii U seems a bit confusing by the way they advertise, as there are a lot of uncertainties left unaddressed. There's also a lot of features the Wii U has that the public wouldn't know about from Nintendo's current advertising efforts. Even I almost forgot that services such as Wii U Chat exist haha.
Great stuff. So how long has Armillo been in development for? (Think that's really my last inquiry)

So far, it's been three years since the project started. But during one of those years, progress was really slow - at a near stand-still. It picked up again once we've became Nintendo developers.
 
#72
I think it's safe to say that most here are going to be purchasing Armillo.

Before I purchase a new game, I typically go through this whole analysis stage by doing things such as watching trailers, but even after doing this with Armillo, I feel more secure about making my purchase simply because there's an established sense of trust that has been made between consumer and developer.

I dunno. Anyone else feel this way?
And thanks for this comment. But I really hope that you'll enjoy the game as well!
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#74
I highly recommended that you don't do that. You won't get issues addressed, just angry mobs who will give rants on how the industry needs to cater to their needs only.

That or the usual pseudo intellectual "game analyst" nonsense. Everybody is a critic...

And euphoric.

Get on my Tapatalk sig level bishes.
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#75
I have another question for you FuzzyWuzzy. So you've talked quite a lot about Unity and how it is to work with. I've heard nothing, but good htings about Unity over the years, and many Indie developers are making good use of it. The thing I've noticed is unlike some game engines like Unreal where it just seems to me everything has a similar style to it (among other things), Unity has so much diversity in how the games look, and it appears to be quite easy and intuitive to use.
Do you suppose it's possible for Unity to become a workhorse game engine in the coming years?
Like you said, Unity is currently not supported on the 3DS, but the moment that happens either with the platform or the successor, you can bet your ass lots of small devs, possibly yourselves will jump at the opportunity.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
#76
Im late to the party, but its cool as hell to have a developers perspective on things. I guess more so than asking questions about the hardware, how about a breakdown of the game itself? Shaders, lighting, particle effects, what do you have going on. Also, are you able to write low level code, or are you limited by the toolset? I think we would be interested to know what effects this Wii U build is getting that would have been either impossible or undesireable on the 360.
Shaders - I'd say nothing too elaborate here. I haven't worked on anything that can't be supported beyond the shader 3.0 model. But I've recently got some help from a technical artist who is trying out an energy conserving shader and HDR in our game and it's looking really nice so far. We'll have to see how far we can get this and how well it works on the Wii U.
Lighting - We're using a mix of dynamic lighting and light maps on some levels. Again, nothing too elaborate here.
Particle Effects - I'd say here is where the Wii U version will shine over the 360's XNA version, mainly because on the 360 version, I had coded a rough limited custom particle system engine that is hard coded. Now on the Wii U, I'm using Unity and using the FX Maker plugin, which makes life so much easier. Takes minutes to create, tune, and spawn a new particle effect and it looks way nicer.
Low level code? Yep, it's possible through Unity's plug-in system.
I am curios then, what was causing you to need to run your game in sub 720p to get the performance you wanted? Where were you finding the ceiling in performance? I have always felt like Indies would be the most likely to discover the limitations of any given area since they will be using them as intended. For example, most indies are going to use the gpu for graphics processing and cpu for ai, physics, and general processing. Basically using everything as intended. Its a bit different on the AAA scene where the developer may use the cpu for graphics rendering to assist the gpu. Most games arent really cpu limited, but developers took advantage of the Xenon and Cell to create more advanced graphics than the gpu's could do on their own.
 
#77
Oh, I forgot to ask. Your team has has been involved with the likes of EA and Radical Entertainment. How did those experiences go?
I'll share this based on a progressive timeline based on my own experience. I worked at EA for nearly 7 years.
The first 3 years were awesome. I worked in tools, so I rarely got to work overtime. It's probably at the point where you'd get excited to work with the big guys and for a well known company. The environment is really nice and infrastructure is pretty good with various facilities - gym, soccer field, basketball court, arcade machines, etc. Cafeteria food tastes decent for the first year, then you get pretty tired of it.
After that, you start getting affected by the pollitics. Basically, the top-down structure where the higher ups have tons of control. It's pretty hard to avoid when your co-workers talk about it all the time. I didn't let it bother me too much and I eventually moved to a game team for a change of pace. That was also at a point after when that EA Spouse episode happened where an anonymous EA employee's spouse's letter complaining about O/T went viral. So even with the move to a game team, I still didn't find myself working that much overtime as the company changed a lot of things to make things better. I think at most I've ever worked was a 3-4 week stretch towards the end of a project.
So things were fine, that is until the layoffs started happening. It just kept happening, one after another. The problem with layoffs is that it totally ruins company morale. Everyone around you just becomes miserable and it really affects you as well. So after the fourth one, which pretty much happened in intervals of like every 3-4 months, I just told my boss that I wasn't happy and he ended up making me happy by laying me off. Happy ending there! Then I started this company.
But I'd say overall, it was a nice experience for me, but perhaps my case is better than what a lot of people go through.
 
#78
I have another question for you FuzzyWuzzy. So you've talked quite a lot about Unity and how it is to work with. I've heard nothing, but good htings about Unity over the years, and many Indie developers are making good use of it. The thing I've noticed is unlike some game engines like Unreal where it just seems to me everything has a similar style to it (among other things), Unity has so much diversity in how the games look, and it appears to be quite easy and intuitive to use.
Do you suppose it's possible for Unity to become a workhorse game engine in the coming years?
Like you said, Unity is currently not supported on the 3DS, but the moment that happens either with the platform or the successor, you can bet your ass lots of small devs, possibly yourselves will jump at the opportunity.
I don't have much experience with Unreal, but from what I can understand, Unity hand-holds you a lot less when it comes to visuals. They provide you with primarily the basics and let you expand easily on them as you'd like. That could explain why we see a ton of good variations when it comes to Unity projects.
I know that Unity is trying to focus more on AAA games for Unity 4, especially when they stated that was one of their goals during their presentations. But I'd say that it's still a much better indie development tool. At the moment, its core engine still works best in smaller development teams.
I would definitely jump into 3DS Unity support. At the moment, I'm sort of doubting that it will happen, especially with the 3DS' limited amount of RAM (considering how much overhead Unity takes up) and also the lack of fully programmable graphics shaders. Of course, it still may happen and I would be totally on-board when it does.
 
#79
Im late to the party, but its cool as hell to have a developers perspective on things. I guess more so than asking questions about the hardware, how about a breakdown of the game itself? Shaders, lighting, particle effects, what do you have going on. Also, are you able to write low level code, or are you limited by the toolset? I think we would be interested to know what effects this Wii U build is getting that would have been either impossible or undesireable on the 360.
Shaders - I'd say nothing too elaborate here. I haven't worked on anything that can't be supported beyond the shader 3.0 model. But I've recently got some help from a technical artist who is trying out an energy conserving shader and HDR in our game and it's looking really nice so far. We'll have to see how far we can get this and how well it works on the Wii U.
Lighting - We're using a mix of dynamic lighting and light maps on some levels. Again, nothing too elaborate here.
Particle Effects - I'd say here is where the Wii U version will shine over the 360's XNA version, mainly because on the 360 version, I had coded a rough limited custom particle system engine that is hard coded. Now on the Wii U, I'm using Unity and using the FX Maker plugin, which makes life so much easier. Takes minutes to create, tune, and spawn a new particle effect and it looks way nicer.
Low level code? Yep, it's possible through Unity's plug-in system.
I am curios then, what was causing you to need to run your game in sub 720p to get the performance you wanted? Where were you finding the ceiling in performance? I have always felt like Indies would be the most likely to discover the limitations of any given area since they will be using them as intended. For example, most indies are going to use the gpu for graphics processing and cpu for ai, physics, and general processing. Basically using everything as intended. Its a bit different on the AAA scene where the developer may use the cpu for graphics rendering to assist the gpu. Most games arent really cpu limited, but developers took advantage of the Xenon and Cell to create more advanced graphics than the gpu's could do on their own.
The game ended up being fill-rate bound on the GPU. We had a lot of effects going on - multiple dynamic lights, bloom, blur, multiple backgrounds (space, sky, clouds), full screen weather effects, and hundreds of objects rendering at once. One thing I'd say that XNA had going better than Unity is that I was able to customize batching of objects any way I'd like to reduce the number of draw calls. Unity decides on its own when it can batch objects or not. For example, transparent objects are never batched in Unity but I was able to batch them in XNA. So those 60 transparent orbs lying around composed of three model layers - 150 draw calls on the Wii U, but only 3 on XNA. But yet, the Wii U still outperformed.
I actually heard about using the CPU to offload the GPU, I never actually done this myself so I'm somewhat unfamiliar with it. Perhaps with the PS3 with all the extra processing power that's needed from the Cell, some software was done to do some custom rendering so that it catches up due to its weaker GPU. But generally, calculations done on the GPU tends to be way faster than a CPU. But the GPU is quite limited in what it's capable of doing in that area
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#81
So who's going to get down about the Fuzzy Wuzzy article?
I'm just going to say that, regardless of whether anyone writes any article based around this, Fuzzy Wuzzy Games have already left a golden egg on these forums.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#83
I'm on the last three questions that were asked here (mine, imthesoldier's, and Goodtwins). After that, it goes for proofing, then it's up.
Assuming that Fuzzy Wuzzy Games agreed to have the stuff said here shared through an article, that sounds great.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#85
I took the "likes" of my previous comments (1, 2) as an okay, but I can wait for something more official.


I took the "likes" of my previous comments (1, 2) as an okay, but I can
wait for something more official.
Always wait for something more official. Good rule of thumb.
 
#88
Yep, I'm good with anything here mentioned in the article. I would change one thing though, which is at the beginning of the article I said mainly 2-3 people working at a time which is true, but I'd like to be fair to the other people who helped out here and there, I'd change that to say 2-5 people at a time instead. That's all.
Thanks!
 
#91
Yep, I'm good with anything here mentioned in the article. I would change one thing though, which is at the beginning of the article I said mainly 2-3 people working at a time which is true, but I'd like to be fair to the other people who helped out here and there, I'd change that to say 2-5 people at a time instead. That's all.
Thanks!
It's been amended. You guys are awesome for making this thread (and the game!). Thank you!
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#92
As if their reviews weren't terrible enough, lol.

I'm really curious about one thing though. AAA 3rd party studios seem to have a negative perspective on the Wii U (i.e. their games are sent to die, even complete ones like Arkham City & ACIII), and then studios who are working closely with Nintendo (Platinum) and independent developers are stating positive things about the system. Why is this the case? Is Nintendo seeing AAA titles as bottom of the barrel? If so, what kind of hard drugs have their executives been using?

Get on my Tapatalk sig level bishes.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#94
Is Nintendo seeing AAA titles as bottom of the barrel? If so, what kind of hard drugs have their executives been using?
I figure this is how Nintendo prioritizes their hardware and business relationships:
Nintendo EAD > First party devs >>> Second party devs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Third party devs
I personally don't see that much wrong with this picture. Nintendo cannot prioritize third party devs the way that Microsoft and Sony do, simply because Nintendo's role in the industry is different. They are not trying to form part of a media conglomerate, and they cannot finance their games by selling TVs. Nintendo's business is first and foremost to build a system they can make great games in, and everything else is secondary.
I don't think this priority will ever change. Nintendo can certainly take steps to close the gap between the support they give second parties and third parties, but third parties will always be served last in the Nintendo table. That's just how it goes with their business.
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#95
It's possible Nintendo sees most AAA 3rd party developers as too big for their good, which might sound a bit ironic considering Nintendo are quite big themselves. However, they also make hardware on top of software, but I believe such companies as Ubi Soft, EA, and Activision are technically bigger than Nintendo, but I could be wrong. Anyone have an idea about that?
I think it's especially telling when the executives of some of these software corporations have zero gaming or programming experience, and yet they're the ones running the place and making the decisions. At least Iwata is a gaming person at heart, AND used to develop video games himself. That's the sort of person you need to run a gaming company I think.
 
#96
Shawn said it best in The Score feature.
"You help out your family and close friends first and all other second. So strengthen your internal bond, then you reach out to those others."
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#97
Is Nintendo seeing AAA titles as bottom of the barrel? If so, what kind of hard drugs have their executives been using?
I figure this is how Nintendo prioritizes their hardware and business relationships:
Nintendo EAD > First party devs >>> Second party devs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Third party devs

I personally don't see that much wrong with this picture. Nintendo cannot prioritize third party devs the way that Microsoft and Sony do, simply because Nintendo's role in the industry is different. They are not trying to form part of a media conglomerate, and they cannot finance their games by selling TVs. Nintendo's business is first and foremost to build a system they can make great games in, and everything else is secondary.
Nintendo's perspective is different from Microsoft's or Sony's. MS has to have third-party studios do well, as their business isn't structured in a way to have a bunch of first-party MS games. Sony has more leeway there, and a better stable of development studios, but still relies on having third-party games as a selling point (no one buys a PlayStation just to play Ratchet and Clank or God of War).

Then you have Nintendo, who almost have the horses to support both a home console and a handheld all by their lonesome. They would rather sell their own software, because they are a huge software publisher in their own right. Their business model is to sell their software for their hardware. It makes sense for them to prioritize exclusive content.

Paying for third-party games takes money away from Nintendo's ability to fund the next Mario or Zelda. Those are kinda important, because no one buys a Nintendo console to play Assassin's Creed.

But their are still gaps in the release lineup, and that's where digital distribution and indies come in. It's a perfect fit for Nintendo. They're not paying for exclusive content, and the console is sufficiently powerful to fulfill the needs of smaller developers. So Nintendo brings the blockbusters, and indies have room to do all the rest.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
#98
By the way Fuzzy, your game looks like a bad ass little game. I am not sure I have seen anything like it. Its kind of like Marble Madness meets Nano Assualt Neo. I will definitely check this game out when it releases.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#99
^
I still need to get Nano Assault Neo. I think Matty just picked it up, too.

Which makes me wonder...yo @FuzzyWuzzyGames, what's your favorite eShop game on the Wii U?
 
^
I still need to get Nano Assault Neo. I think Matty just picked it up, too.

Which makes me wonder...yo @FuzzyWuzzyGames, what's your favorite eShop game on the Wii U?
To be honest, I've barely had much time to play games in general since I got my Wii U - downsides of having two jobs for a while. I've been playing mostly Nintendo's own games as I find the time. But once Armillo ships, I'm going to go crazy playing some of those eShop games that I've been looking forward to playing. The two games I'm particularly looking forward to playing are Shovel Knight and Toki Tori 2.
 
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