[Nintendo] Andy Tudor: Wii U Capable Of Delivering Core Project CARS experience

#1
Andy Tudor: Wii U Capable Of Delivering Core Project CARS experience
Slightly Mad Studios Creative Director Andy Tudor was interviewed by the Red Bull website’s gaming section about Project CARS. In it, Tudor explains that the Wii U is more than capable of delivering the Project CARS experience.


Tudor talks about this in the context of Slightly Mad recently deciding to cancel ports of Project CARS to Playstation 3 and Xbox 360. However, to be fair, Tudor points out that decision was more about practicality than power. Getting back on topic, Slightly Mad has taken an interest in the Wii U’s unique features, particularly the GamePad and Miiverse. The GamePad could be your track map, rearview mirror, or telemetry. They could also make use of the controller’s gyroscope and make it the game’s steering wheel. Regarding Miiverse, the studio sees a place where they could broaden their WMD (World of Mass Development) fan community.


Andy Tudor: "The Wii U is more than capable of providing the core Project CARS experience. Sure, some super-high-level graphical effects may not be possible but in comparison it also offers a unique interaction experience via the GamePad controller, with the second screen potentially becoming your track map overview, rear-view mirror, telemetry, or simply mimicking a real race car steering wheel whilst you use the gyroscope to drive.”


Andy Tudor: “Plus there are great possibilities to extend our existing WMD community into the Mii Community with discussion and sharing of content and ideas. There’s no realistic racing game on the Wii U currently yet, and we hear the fans crying out for one. Project CARS provides a Forza or Gran Turismo-like experience for those gamers and it’ll be something to really show off what the system is capable of. From our internal playing, it’s looking extremely promising."
Beyond that, however, they simply see in Wii U a need to be filled. Playstation has Gran Turismo, Xbox has Forza, and while Mario Kart has broader appeal than either racer, the market for a realistic racing franchise exists in Nintendo consoles as much as anywhere else. This game can output to 4K on PC, and Tudor claims it will show off the Wii U’s power in the best way possible.


Want to see how good Project CARS can look? Check out one of many trailers below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JuZGOuktrR4
 
#5
I've never been much of the racing sim fan, but I've never tried one with motion controls, which is the only way I play racing games now (the alternative feels inferior to me).
I hope they're able to have a lot of success with this game. Being crowd-funded and all though, they should.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#6
Wow, the key team is only 80 members? For a pretty ambitious sim, that's surprising.

I can't wait to play this. Sure, the eye candy will be nice, but for me, the most important thing is that they've talked about getting the steering right in this game. My biggest gripe with Gran Turismo has always been that the steering is just too numb. They shouldn't make it an arcade drift racer (we have NFS:MWU for that), but if I'm in a RWD car, I'd rather feel the oversteer coming on than having it be numb - number - numbness - oh crap I'm in a wall.

We need to do something with the GamePad as a steering wheel, like Cubits did for the Zapper attachment. It doesn't work to just hold it up...it needs some sort of holster.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#8
I FUCKING TOLD Y'ALL.

Assuming any of you thought the Wii U was underpowered, which I highly doubt.

Get on my Tapatalk sig level bishes.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#9
I cant wait to see what they can do. After having so much fun with NFS:MW, I will be eager to give Project Cars a whirl.

NFS's big strength is also its greatest weakness - it's really fun to have a looser structure for online matches, but you lose the immediacy you get with something like COD where you just pick a mode and go (you can join in on a NFS match, of course, but you never know what they're racing or what routes). I hope CARS finds the right balance there. They say it's "more sandbox," but it's not an open-world racer.

Also, I'm completely bummed that this game got bumped back again. November 2014? That's a very long time to wait. But at least this thing should be polished up really well by then.

I FUCKING TOLD Y'ALL.

Assuming any of you thought the Wii U was underpowered, which I highly doubt.
Heh...y'know, I do wonder where this idea came from, that most of us here thought the Wii U was either a beast or a slouch. We've tried to say away from the GAF-ish hyperventilating and hyperbole. As I see it, most of us here were only ever interested in finding out if the Wii U would be able to receive multi-plat ports. Its architecture and featureset say "yes it can," while raw flop-y performance says "perhaps not." I lean toward the former, because focusing on raw flops performance alone comes perilously close to the type of thinking people used to have on clockrate.

It's interesting that as soon as Slightly Mad saw the launch figures for the PS4 and One, they dropped PS3/360 support. But not Wii U.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
#10
I tried talking with people over at Beyond3D, but that has become pointless quickly. They just "want" to believe the Wii U is a total weakling, even if a lot of their rationale is based off ridiculous assumptions. I actually had one clown claim the reason NFS:MW only had 6 players online was because of the weak CPU.....I about fell over. This is supposed to be a tech forum, and thats the mindset over there. I couldnt believe it, do these fucking morons not realize Mario Kart Wii has 12 players online with a 729Mhz PPC750 single core processor. I am probably done there. There is no real disscussion, just theories that only make sense when your trying to bash a product. I really hope Project Cars turns out really good so these haters can eat some crow.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#11
I do wonder why they cut the player count down, tbh. It's probably due to there being a smaller number of online players on Wii U, but I suppose it's conceivable that there's something to do with the learning curve of the new hardware. But you'd have a hell of a time figuring out why a piece of hardware that can chew through higher quality PC textures would have CPU struggles with two additional cars in a race.

Most tech forums are useless, I've found. You go there to learn, and you can't. You go there for semi-informed opinions, but you don't really get any (you have a bunch of people who have built a gaming PC and read up buzzwords acting like they're developers).
 
#12
Criterion must have understood it wasn't worth the effort to squeeze more net code performance out of the Wii U's anti ps360 CPU because of the obvious lower number of players. The time was rightfully better spent improving the textures and lighting that the Wii U Radeon GPU could handle with ease. Same went with other ports such as Ghosts to some extent.
 
#13
Good news fellas, I got a Q and A for the site with Andy about Project CARS. I asked NOTHING ABOUT THE WII U VERSION!!!!!

Kidding. Hopefully I'll have it up soon :)
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#14
Good news fellas, I got a Q and A for the site with Andy about Project CARS. I asked NOTHING ABOUT THE WII U VERSION!!!!!

Kidding. Hopefully I'll have it up soon :)
Awesome man I very much look forward to this!
 
#16
So after much delay and waiting, Andy finally told me he is going to answer my questions tomorrow. Should have the interview up in the next day or 2!
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#18
Y'all mind if I start a topic discussing the intricacies of porting from the Xbox One and PS4 to the Wii U?

Like what has to be modeled and redone in order for them to run steady?

Along with some other facts and interesting quips?
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#19
^
Sounds like it could be interesting, Laer.

Also, see if you can get Tudor to bite on some technical details, Sir. Like how Wii U handles the apparently-required DX11-equivalent specs to run the game.
http://www.wmdportal.com/projectnews/take-a-country-drive-with-build-179/
 
#20
So Andy swore he would email me back on the 6th, and, he hasn't come through. I'm still hoping to hear from him, but I guess it's looking a little grim. I know they were busy at CES so I'm not counting it out yet, but I will keep you guys updated.
 
#21
@SirNintendo I didn't see him at CES, but my guess is that probably was CES related back up and polish of the game and not snubbing you. They had the latest build running flawlessly on different systems here at CES, and that might be due to their attention to showing the best quality they could to all of us who were at CES. I know I was impressed, especially at 85".
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#23
They had the latest build running flawlessly on different systems here at CES, and that might be due to their attention to showing the best quality they could to all of us who were at CES.
Did the Wii U build make a cameo?
 
#25
Obviously won't look like this while driving, but it'll be interesting to see how many effects the Wii U version can maintain

http://www.wmdportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/011.png
http://www.wmdportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/002.jpg
http://www.wmdportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/003.jpg
http://www.wmdportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/031.jpg
http://www.wmdportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/040.jpg
http://www.wmdportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/048.jpg
http://www.wmdportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/035.jpg
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#26
Here's a message that IheartNintendo sent me on IGN.

Earlier, I pointed out to you in that thread that the power gap is not the issue, the sales are. The machine itself is far, far more capable than most are willing to accept. And those who do voice those points are often labeled as fanboys. I can tell you right now, the Wii U, down to every part, everything it can do, can have the multiplats of the PS4 and XBox One. People have said "The PS4 does 1.8TFLOPS, and the XBox One does 1.2TFLOPS, the Wii U is nowhere close to that." That, is just not true. Firstly, those numbers are the peak performances for the PS4 and XBox 1, so you will likely see games that approach 800GFLOPS-1TFLOP on average. Secondly, Slightly Mad Studios (Project CARS) has pointed out that the Wii U is pulling 422GFLOPS, and that 20-40% of the Wii U's GPU's shader cores are locked out for developers at the moment. (I'm not sure why this is, exactly, but I'm guessing Nintendo doesn't see the need to free those resources up for developers until the PS4/XBox One become a real threat, once their install bases are as high or higher, or thereabouts to the Wii U's. The Wii U is capable of 600GFLOPS at peak performance, but most of the time will fall somewhere in the 450-500 range, or, half of what the PS4 and XBox One are capable of on average. People will also point out that the Wii U's CPU can't stand up to its PS4/XBox One counterpart. This is probably the biggest misconception about the console, and it drives me nuts. Firstly, the PS4 and XBox One have 6 usable cores for games at 1.6/1.75GHz respectively. Each of these six cores has a 128 bit memory bus to the Wii U's 64 bit. They compile data faster than the Wii U, but they have 16 stage pipelines to the Wii U's 4, so the Wii U can prepare its data for execution at a faster rate, even though the PS4/XBox One output more per clock. The Wii U has a 3MB eDRAM cache in its tri-core CPU to the 4MB across the six cores of the PS4/XBox One. It's really tit for tat here. Wii U has less overall, but gives more to each core. It can also tap into the GPU's 32MB of eDRAM is need be. The greatest thing about the Wii U is the super scalar parallelism. The cores are clocked at 1.25GHz and everyone says a tri core at that speed just can't keep up with those six core beats, right? Dead wrong. In fact, so wrong it's laughable. The Wii U can execute 3 instructions per clock per core, for a total of 9 per second. It also has 5 instruction units per core, which means it can queue up 15 total instructions in the CPU per second. What this means, is while it's executing those 9, it already had 6 more ready to go in the next second, while compiling another 9 in the background. The PS4 and XBox One can do two instructions per clock per core, for a total of 12 instructions per second. Not so big of a difference eh? It gets even better. The Wii U can queue up 15 instructions per second. The PS4 and XBox One can only queue up 12 in the background. So in short: Wii U can queue 15 and execute 9, PS4/XBox One can queue 12 and execute 12. Again, sort of tit for tat. Lastly is the RAM and bandwidth issue. PS4 has a bandwidth of 176GB a second, XBox One does about 133, and the Wii U is actually capable of roughly 100GBs with the eDRAM pool properly utilized. There's no solid number on the actual peak bandwidth because the eDRAM can literally be used all over the machine in different aspects. But most developers are now using it primarily for the bandwidth, and that's about what they get. Lastly is the RAM. Yes, PS4 and XBox One have 5GBs for games and Wii U only has 1. But I'm going to let you in on a nice little secret that a lot of developers are actually looking at just in case the Wii U takes off and they want to cash in on it. Havok has this neat little tool that compresses game assets and textures down to a tenth of their size with almost no quality loss. You want to port a PS4 game that uses 4GBs worth of RAM for assets and textures to the Wii U? No problem. Run it all through Wii U's Havok tool and compress them down to 400MB. You might have to modify the poly count on some of the assets so they still look good after compression, but it's a lot easier than rebuilding from the ground up.

It encouraged me to dig deeper into the Wii U's tech out of curiosity.
Well we have this discrepancy riddled article to amuse ourselves with

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-secret-developers-wii-u-the-inside-story
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#29
Well, it's at least interesting to read the perspective of a launch dev. The Wii U does have a "slow" CPU compared to the 360 and PS3. But the One and PS4 don't have Cell-beast CPUs, either. And then they pretty much spill the beans here:
The GPU proved very capable and we ended up adding additional "polish" features as the GPU had capacity to do it. There was even some discussion on trying to utilise the GPU via compute shaders (GPGPU) to offload work from the CPU - exactly the approach I expect to see gain traction on the next-gen consoles - but with very limited development time and no examples or guidance from Nintendo, we didn't feel that we could risk attempting this work. If we had a larger development team or a longer timeframe, maybe we would have attempted it, but in hindsight we would have been limited as to what we could have done before we maxed out the GPU again.
"So sure, we could've offloaded some CPU tasks - like the architecture is designed to do - but we didn't have time at launch."

And later they cop - extremely quietly, an an aside - that the same low power CPU with beefy GPU combo is in the competition. It's utter nonsense to say an x86 is somehow super bleeding edge, so that point falls on its face. And we know from talking to devs on this forum that the Wii U's GPU has DX11-class features, so it's hard to say it'll be a "generation behind" the PS4 and One. There is
a power chasm, and that may make porting some games more challenging or more difficult than it's worth, but it should still be feasible in a way it never was for the Wii. That's all anyone ever wondered about. It's why I've been banging on about scalability being such an important feature of new middleware engines.

What this really reveals is that everyone who thought developing on the PS4 and One (and Wii U) would be easy because they're closer to what PCs have been doing is flat-out, completely and totally wrong. This guy was obviously a console dev. And they had no clue
how to optimize for this new chipset. At all. As much as we can say "Nintendo could've helped them," they couldn't have done the job for them. These devs were caught flat-footed, and it wouldn't hurt them to say it. Right now it's all external blame - "hey, we couldn't do this, because Nintendo."

That aside, the Wii U launch somehow seemed really rushed, despite having many years to prepare. Nintendo was cutting it stupidly close to the wire with Nintendo Network, they were so busy they didn't have time to help devs understand the hardware (which is a bit of an unfair thing because we've all read the horror stories about doing early games on PS3, but it's also Nintendo, so it's just something they have to deal with). This is the kind of stuff we had all assumed, but it's apparently all true.

[Pet peeve - can these people stop saying "a GPGPU" or "the GPGPU," while we're at it? There is no such thing, you morons. It's "general-purpose computing on graphics processor units." There is only "a GPU" that is capable of general processing. There is no "general processing GPU" - that literally connotes having a separate GPU (one for general processing, one for graphics processing). There is only the
GPU, and doing general processing on it. And all GPUs for gaming will pretty much be capable of this going forward. It's redundant and inaccurate to call it a GPGPU.]
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#30
Also, @GaemzDood, is iheartnintendo a dev or something? Those would be some optimistic numbers. Flop counting is mainly useless (welcome to the new megahertz myth), but the number I keep seeing is around 352 GFLOPS for the Wii U. As mj has pointed out before, if the PS4 can do 1.8 TFLOPS, that sounds like a lot...but it's only roughly 5x the peak theoretical performance of the Wii U (and if its power can be accessed efficiently, it will perform closer to its peak performance than the PS4 will to its theoretical benchmark scores).

That is certainly a measurable difference in power, but it's not what we had last time, where nVidia was saying the PS3 was 50x
more powerful than the PS2.
You could slice the figure for the Wii U's power in half - some folks over at GAF think the Wii U would only have 176 GFLOPS - and it's "only" back to 10x the performance for the PS4 (actually a bit less, since if the Wii U's ceiling is 176 GFLOPS, it's going to deliver close to that peak performance regularly, while the PS4 probably isn't going to be pulling its peak on-paper numbers like that).
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
#31
That was a very good read, and it highlights what Criterion had mentioned in an interview, basically stating that they had better information from Nintendo that wasnt available to developers prior to launch. As typical with Nintendo, it seems their development tools prior to launch sound terrible. They probably still arent as good as Sony or MIcrosofts tools, but improved over the mess that developers had to work with prior to launch. " Code optimised for the PowerPC processors found in the Xbox 360 and
PlayStation 3 wasn't always a good fit for the Wii U CPU, so while the
chip has some interesting features that let the CPU punch above its
weight, we couldn't fully take advantage of them. However, some code
could see substantial improvements that did mitigate the lower clocks -
anything up to a 4x boost owing to the removal of Load-Hit-Stores, and
higher IPC (instructions per cycle) via the inclusion of out-of-order
execution."

Pretty much been my general consensus about the CPU. Its stronger in some areas, but far weaker in others. Seven years of optimizing code for those processors did not translate very well, and the strengths of Wii U cpu could not be exploited, this would have required an entire rewrite of your code.

"The GPU is better than on PS3 or Xbox 360, but leagues away from the graphics hardware in the PS4 or Xbox One."

The chasm is going to be large enough that unless there is serious potential for large profits, then the Wii U wont be seeing ports of next gen games. As long as 360/PS3 are in the picture, a Wii U build will probably stay in the mix.

"I've also seen some concerns about the utilisation of DDR3 RAM on Wii U,
and a bandwidth deficit compared to the PS3 and Xbox 360. This wasn't
really a problem for us. The GPU could fetch data rapidly with minimal
stalls (via the EDRAM) and we could efficiently pre-fetch, allowing the
GPU to run at top speed."


There are still a few morons on the internet that want to claim the Wii U is memory bandwidth bottlenecked, but once again a developer lets us know that its simply not true. The edram is the reason the GPU performs as well as it does.

Overall I really enjoyed the read. I would hope that the information and tools have all improved a lot since that developer worked on the console, but I have a feeling Nintendo intentionally holds back some tips and tricks to make their own titles stand out. I remember reading that Sony intentionally made the PS2 very hard to develop for so that their own first party titles would stand head and shoulders above the competition.

Project Cars will probably turn out pretty good since they have benefeited from having Wii U dev tools from day one. They can customize the code in parallel with the development process. Its not like they complete the game for PC, and then in the last few months try to make it work on the Wii U. They can actually write different scripts for Wii U in situations where they know the code wont transfer well. Racers are typically pretty GPU centric, so its likely that the strengths lend themselves very efficiently to a game like Project Cars, and the weaknesses are easier to avoid.
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#33
Well, it's at least interesting to read the perspective of a launch dev. The Wii U does have a "slow" CPU compared to the 360 and PS3. But the One and PS4 don't have Cell-beast CPUs, either. And then they pretty much spill the beans here:
The GPU proved very capable and we ended up adding additional "polish" features as the GPU had capacity to do it. There was even some discussion on trying to utilise the GPU via compute shaders (GPGPU) to offload work from the CPU - exactly the approach I expect to see gain traction on the next-gen consoles - but with very limited development time and no examples or guidance from Nintendo, we didn't feel that we could risk attempting this work. If we had a larger development team or a longer timeframe, maybe we would have attempted it, but in hindsight we would have been limited as to what we could have done before we maxed out the GPU again.


"So sure, we could've offloaded some CPU tasks - like the architecture is designed to do - but we didn't have time at launch."

And later they cop - extremely quietly, an an aside - that the same low power CPU with beefy GPU combo is in the competition. It's utter nonsense to say an x86 is somehow super bleeding edge, so that point falls on its face. And we know from talking to devs on this forum that the Wii U's GPU has DX11-class features, so it's hard to say it'll be a "generation behind" the PS4 and One. There is
a power chasm, and that may make porting some games more challenging or more difficult than it's worth, but it should still be feasible in a way it never was for the Wii. That's all anyone ever wondered about. It's why I've been banging on about scalability being such an important feature of new middleware engines.

What this really reveals is that everyone who thought developing on the PS4 and One (and Wii U) would be easy because they're closer to what PCs have been doing is flat-out, completely and totally wrong. This guy was obviously a console dev. And they had no clue
how to optimize for this new chipset. At all. As much as we can say "Nintendo could've helped them," they couldn't have done the job for them. These devs were caught flat-footed, and it wouldn't hurt them to say it. Right now it's all external blame - "hey, we couldn't do this, because Nintendo."

That aside, the Wii U launch somehow seemed really rushed, despite having many years to prepare. Nintendo was cutting it stupidly close to the wire with Nintendo Network, they were so busy they didn't have time to help devs understand the hardware (which is a bit of an unfair thing because we've all read the horror stories about doing early games on PS3, but it's also Nintendo, so it's just something they have to deal with). This is the kind of stuff we had all assumed, but it's apparently all true.

[Pet peeve - can these people stop saying "a GPGPU" or "the GPGPU," while we're at it? There is no such thing, you morons. It's "general-purpose computing on graphics processor units." There is only "a GPU" that is capable of general processing. There is no "general processing GPU" - that literally connotes having a separate GPU (one for general processing, one for graphics processing). There is only the
GPU, and doing general processing on it. And all GPUs for gaming will pretty much be capable of this going forward. It's redundant and inaccurate to call it a GPGPU.]
I feel this needs to be mentioned

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=96726143&postcount=437

There you go
 

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Well-Known Member
#34
That was a very good read, and it highlights what Criterion had mentioned in an interview, basically stating that they had better information from Nintendo that wasnt available to developers prior to launch. As typical with Nintendo, it seems their development tools prior to launch sound terrible. They probably still arent as good as Sony or MIcrosofts tools, but improved over the mess that developers had to work with prior to launch. " Code optimised for the PowerPC processors found in the Xbox 360 and
PlayStation 3 wasn't always a good fit for the Wii U CPU, so while the
chip has some interesting features that let the CPU punch above its
weight, we couldn't fully take advantage of them. However, some code
could see substantial improvements that did mitigate the lower clocks -
anything up to a 4x boost owing to the removal of Load-Hit-Stores, and
higher IPC (instructions per cycle) via the inclusion of out-of-order
execution."

Pretty much been my general consensus about the CPU. Its stronger in some areas, but far weaker in others. Seven years of optimizing code for those processors did not translate very well, and the strengths of Wii U cpu could not be exploited, this would have required an entire rewrite of your code.

"The GPU is better than on PS3 or Xbox 360, but leagues away from the graphics hardware in the PS4 or Xbox One."

The chasm is going to be large enough that unless there is serious potential for large profits, then the Wii U wont be seeing ports of next gen games. As long as 360/PS3 are in the picture, a Wii U build will probably stay in the mix.

"I've also seen some concerns about the utilisation of DDR3 RAM on Wii U,
and a bandwidth deficit compared to the PS3 and Xbox 360. This wasn't
really a problem for us. The GPU could fetch data rapidly with minimal
stalls (via the EDRAM) and we could efficiently pre-fetch, allowing the
GPU to run at top speed."


There are still a few morons on the internet that want to claim the Wii U is memory bandwidth bottlenecked, but once again a developer lets us know that its simply not true. The edram is the reason the GPU performs as well as it does.

Overall I really enjoyed the read. I would hope that the information and tools have all improved a lot since that developer worked on the console, but I have a feeling Nintendo intentionally holds back some tips and tricks to make their own titles stand out. I remember reading that Sony intentionally made the PS2 very hard to develop for so that their own first party titles would stand head and shoulders above the competition.

Project Cars will probably turn out pretty good since they have benefeited from having Wii U dev tools from day one. They can customize the code in parallel with the development process. Its not like they complete the game for PC, and then in the last few months try to make it work on the Wii U. They can actually write different scripts for Wii U in situations where they know the code wont transfer well. Racers are typically pretty GPU centric, so its likely that the strengths lend themselves very efficiently to a game like Project Cars, and the weaknesses are easier to avoid.




No Microsoft's tools fucking suck right now

Resolution gate guys.
Hence the Ps4 excitement
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
#35
I remember reading that Sony intentionally made the PS2 very hard to develop for so that their own first party titles would stand head and shoulders above the competition.
huh?
=))
No joke, PS2 used an entirely propriety programming language. I think is was Rich at Reviewtechusa who brought it up when praising Sony going to X86 architecture for the cpu.
 
#37
I remember reading that Sony intentionally made the PS2 very hard to develop for so that their own first party titles would stand head and shoulders above the competition.
huh?
=))
No joke, PS2 used an entirely propriety programming language. I think is was Rich at Reviewtechusa who brought it up when praising Sony going to X86 architecture for the cpu.
I know... still, the ps2 was crap. Even if the developer knew every little secret the console had it sabotaged itself by not making good looking games.
So the thought that Sony intentionally made the ps2 hard to develop just to make their first party games stand out is ridiculous... that's why I ROFL'd.
 
#38
They had the latest build running flawlessly on different systems here at CES, and that might be due to their attention to showing the best quality they could to all of us who were at CES.
Did the Wii U build make a cameo?
Nope, only the few PC builds from Nvidia that I saw. If there was a Wii U version, I woulda probably known, heheh. ATi was rumored to have one build running on an undisclosed system behind closed doors, but it was probably another PC version or the xboxone version.

And [email protected] eurogamer. They have no shame.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#39
Well, it's Eurogamer, but it does paint an interesting picture of dealing with Nintendo pre-launch and up to launch. Nintendo was juggling a lot of stuff (a brand-new online infrastructure, a brand-new console that is orders of magnitude more powerful than anything they've used before, industry politics, keeping the 3DS healthy, etc.), so it makes some sense that they honestly couldn't do a lot of hand holding with third parties. And apparently that's needed to get the most out of the system (like Criterion and Shin 'en).

No joke, PS2 used an entirely propriety programming language. I think is was Rich at Reviewtechusa who brought it up when praising Sony going to X86 architecture for the cpu.
A while back I found a link from a dev talking about programming on the PS2, and how the dev kit came with phonebook + Bible sized manuals that they had to read for weeks before they could even do the simplest tasks on the console. Wish I could find that link (it also talked about the PSX and XB separately).
 
#40
Harder to Develop Games on the Wii U? Not the case says Renegade Kid.
http://nintendoenthusiast.com/news/harder-develop-games-wii-u-case-says-renegade-kid/
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#41
Harder to Develop Games on the Wii U? Not the case says Renegade Kid.
http://nintendoenthusiast.com/news/harder-develop-games-wii-u-case-says-renegade-kid/

I said this last night, and basically if devs are having trouble developing for the Wii U, then they fail as a developer and programmer. With the PS3 I could understand since it was such a foreign design, but the Wii U's PowerPC and GCN architecture shouldn't be unique to developers.
 

simplyTravis

Lamer Gamers Podcast Co-Host
#42
The only things that bothers me as a videophile is that the game is capped at 30 fps. I would rather see it at 60fps and get rid of a few things. That being said, the game is absolutely stunning and I will probably pick it up if the price is right. I have never been a sim racer but seeing a company so involved with Nintendo makes me think twice about buying it. That is the main reason I bought Need For Speed in the first place on WiiU.
 
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