Nintendo Switch - Official Thread

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
Look people, you need to stop hoping that Nintendo will get western third party support because that will never happen even after the release of Switch. Its just impossible to happen and majority of them just shift towards PC and mobile.
I am with you up to where you say it is impossible... To me that implies hardware limitation, and I am completely against the narrative that any game made in this generation couldn't have run in last gen hardware with minimal effort. This is BY FAR the least necessary generation step in the history of gaming, this generation was more about marketing than necessity... It wad a solution in search of a problem... Half the games are still hitting old hardware, and the ones that aren't only are not because they want to market a performance boost....

Nintendo will not get anything close to western 3rd party parity... But that had NOTHING to do with performance

And in the end it really does not matter. Having the same games as the systems you already own is not a selling point... Unifying their handheld and console lineups with a select few notable 3rd party games IS a selling point
 

Socar

Active Member
I am with you up to where you say it is impossible... To me that implies hardware limitation, and I am completely against the narrative that any game made in this generation couldn't have run in last gen hardware with minimal effort. This is BY FAR the least necessary generation step in the history of gaming, this generation was more about marketing than necessity... It wad a solution in search of a problem... Half the mylar are still hitting old hardware, and the ones that aren't only are not because they want to market a performance boost....

Nintendo will not get anything close to western 3rd party parity... But that had NOTHING to do with performance

And in the end it really does not matter. Having the same games as the systems you already own is not a selling point... Unifying their handheld and console lineups with a select few notable 3rd party games IS a selling point
But then why are people making such a big deal with "Nintendo needs third party!" over and over again? Its so damn irritating and plain stupid honestly since there is a heap junk of support from third parties.....from the Japan side of things.

Honestly, I don't even know why western devs are even trying for console market if they are just fine with mobile and pc....infact Xbox One and PS4 is technically PC gaming only done in a faster approach.
 

Superfakerbros

ECE 2018
Moderator
But then why are people making such a big deal with "Nintendo needs third party!" over and over again? Its so damn irritating and plain stupid honestly since there is a heap junk of support from third parties.....from the Japan side of things.

Honestly, I don't even know why western devs are even trying for console market if they are just fine with mobile and pc....infact Xbox One and PS4 is technically PC gaming only done in a faster approach.
Well it's because people want to play more than just Nintendo games on their systems. I love their games as much as the next guy but I don't want another Wii U. It's one of the reasons why I love their handhelds

That's where their games sell best and they can easily port their games between the two systems and PCs, not much else to it
 

Koenig

The Architect
But then why are people making such a big deal with "Nintendo needs third party!" over and over again?
Because 3rd party support is and has been Nintendo greatest weakness for the past twenty years. When all else is said and done, it is probably the largest detriment to Nintendo from a consumer standpoint. If Nintendo could somehow secure full multi-platform parity in terms of software and add it to their own catalog of exclusive IP, they would easily take the top spot of the generation. Unfortunately Nintendo still has traditionally had a very backwards mindset when it comes to third party developers, which has lead many of them to search for other platforms to develop for that Sony and Microsoft have been all to eager to provide.

With that said, this is one of the main reasons I am excited for the Switch: Partnering with Nvidia. This single move is probably the best thing about the switch IMO, as Nvidia has a much better history with working alongside developers and providing useful development tools. This should allow Nintendo to finally help tackle one of their longest running weaknesses and strengthen 3rd party support by making it easier for external developers to developer for the system.
 

Cubits

Well-Known Member
Just going on basics, imagine the market for portable FIFA which doesn't compromise the experience in any way? That game just hasn't existed, ever, and there are millions of weirdos who buy that franchise every year and would totally go portable if they could. And the same goes for madden, call of duty, and any number of other franchises which have saturated the home console market and need somewhere else to go to maintain growth.

The big deal with the switch isn't that it's a wii u replacement with more grunt, that's a losing game. The switch is the first portable which will actually accommodate games by western developers. That's why portable skyrim, despite it being a late version of an average remaster of an old game, is such a big deal.

I think that's the key difference between the wii u's unprecedented partnership and how publishers are looking at the switch. It's an entirely new market for a lot of them, and that's why it will be worth porting games to the only portable game in town instead of to the ugly cousin of the xbone and ps4.
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
Just going on basics, imagine the market for portable FIFA which doesn't compromise the experience in any way? That game just hasn't existed, ever, and there are millions of weirdos who buy that franchise every year and would totally go portable if they could. And the same goes for madden, call of duty, and any number of other franchises which have saturated the home console market and need somewhere else to go to maintain growth.

The big deal with the switch isn't that it's a wii u replacement with more grunt, that's a losing game. The switch is the first portable which will actually accommodate games by western developers. That's why portable skyrim, despite it being a late version of an average remaster of an old game, is such a big deal.

I think that's the key difference between the wii u's unprecedented partnership and how publishers are looking at the switch. It's an entirely new market for a lot of them, and that's why it will be worth porting games to the only portable game in town instead of to the ugly cousin of the xbone and ps4.
I can picture the scenarios where someone is playing the Switch on The John playing Madden, and shouting, "TOUCHDOWN!" Some will obviously not understand.


Now, going into what you said about new opportunities, that is exactly what the Switch provides. Up until this point, we haven't had a platform that allowed this sort of mobility, while trying providing a true console experience. For 3rd parties, it's an exciting new endeavor for them, and one they will take advantage of if there's a market for it. I can definitely picture articles being written for the best games to play while taking a shit.
 

Socar

Active Member
Because 3rd party support is and has been Nintendo greatest weakness for the past twenty years. When all else is said and done, it is probably the largest detriment to Nintendo from a consumer standpoint. If Nintendo could somehow secure full multi-platform parity in terms of software and add it to their own catalog of exclusive IP, they would easily take the top spot of the generation. Unfortunately Nintendo still has traditionally had a very backwards mindset when it comes to third party developers, which has lead many of them to search for other platforms to develop for that Sony and Microsoft have been all to eager to provide.

With that said, this is one of the main reasons I am excited for the Switch: Partnering with Nvidia. This single move is probably the best thing about the switch IMO, as Nvidia has a much better history with working alongside developers and providing useful development tools. This should allow Nintendo to finally help tackle one of their longest running weaknesses and strengthen 3rd party support by making it easier for external developers to developer for the system.

Ok...you do realize that in the Japan side of things, Nintendo has tons of third party support right? Its only the western side of things that they don't end up getting a whole lot.

Just going on basics, imagine the market for portable FIFA which doesn't compromise the experience in any way? That game just hasn't existed, ever, and there are millions of weirdos who buy that franchise every year and would totally go portable if they could. And the same goes for madden, call of duty, and any number of other franchises which have saturated the home console market and need somewhere else to go to maintain growth.

The big deal with the switch isn't that it's a wii u replacement with more grunt, that's a losing game. The switch is the first portable which will actually accommodate games by western developers. That's why portable skyrim, despite it being a late version of an average remaster of an old game, is such a big deal.

I think that's the key difference between the wii u's unprecedented partnership and how publishers are looking at the switch. It's an entirely new market for a lot of them, and that's why it will be worth porting games to the only portable game in town instead of to the ugly cousin of the xbone and ps4.
Don't expect all that to come to reality because again, when people play portable games, most of them play games that are in short bursts of time. I don't know if I can picture an average person playing Fifa while on a bus because its a game that takes a lot of time...or forget even Fifa, games like Call of Duty certainly take a lot of time.

Even so, the support will only come when the Switch does well and while I'm positive that it will do well, it may not do so for the western devs.
 

Koenig

The Architect
Ok...you do realize that in the Japan side of things, Nintendo has tons of third party support right? Its only the western side of things that they don't end up getting a whole lot.
A: Nintendo's Third party support in Japan is better than it is in the west, but still FAR from ideal.
B: Regardless, what is your point? Third party parity is still one of Nintendo biggest weaknesses.

Pick your words and tone wisely this time please, else I won't bother to respond again.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
Third party support will likely look far more 3DS than PS4. For some people that is great, as it further cements it's own unique identity, but some will be disappointed because they want Assassin's Creed and COD on the platform.

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SkywardCrowbar

Twintelle's loyal Husbando
If 3rd party support for Switch is on 3DS levels, I will be over the moon.

IMO, the narrative of Nintendo desperately needing lots more 3rd party support loses some relevance when you consider that the Switch will likely be replacing both the Wii U and the 3DS. Nintendo can consolidate development then and put out more games for one system, thus reducing droughts and giving potential buyers more of a reason to dive in.
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
Look people, you need to stop hoping that Nintendo will get western third party support because that will never happen even after the release of Switch. Its just impossible to happen and majority of them just shift towards PC and mobile.
But then why are people making such a big deal with "Nintendo needs third party!" over and over again? Its so damn irritating and plain stupid honestly since there is a heap junk of support from third parties.....from the Japan side of things.

Honestly, I don't even know why western devs are even trying for console market if they are just fine with mobile and pc....infact Xbox One and PS4 is technically PC gaming only done in a faster approach.
It's not stupid.

Wii U is an example of a Nintendo-only console (mostly). What did they got? 14M users.

Nintendo needs 3rd party. A reasonable amount of 3rd party.

Nintendo can't survive on Mario Kart, Smash and Zelda only.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
It's not stupid.

Wii U is an example of a Nintendo-only console (mostly). What did they got? 14M users.

Nintendo needs 3rd party. A reasonable amount of 3rd party.

Nintendo can't survive on Mario Kart, Smash and Zelda only.
Your ignoring the fact that Switch unifys the 3DS and Wii U userbase, and that totals over 70 million users. No one is arguing that Nintendo can go it alone with no third party support, but the notion that western third parties will be critical ignores the success that 3DS had seen.

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Koenig

The Architect
Your ignoring the fact that Switch unifys the 3DS and Wii U userbase, and that totals over 70 million users. No one is arguing that Nintendo can go it alone with no third party support, but the motion that western third parties will be critical ignores the success that 3DS had seen.

Sent from my SM-G360V using genital warts
Though I do have to wonder, what would the 3DS be like had it gotten full support by western 3rd parties as well?
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
Hard to tell, we have never had a portable this close in performance to consoles, so it's never been possible. Switch can do it, but will depend on viability for those third parties. Even if Switch is selling great, if the western third party ports sell poorly, they will discontinue support.

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SkywardCrowbar

Twintelle's loyal Husbando
Ultimately Nintendo has to have a stellar first & second party lineup within the first 9 months to shift consoles to convince 3rd parties to even really take the risk. It's going to be dicey. Switch can't afford to be sluggish out of the gate.

Thankfully the hype surrounding it with consumers seems to be very high, and the prospective first 9 months lineup looks extremely solid.
 

Koenig

The Architect
Hard to tell, we have never had a portable this close in performance to consoles, so it's never been possible. Switch can do it, but will depend on viability for those third parties. Even if Switch is selling great, if the western third party ports sell poorly, they will discontinue support.

Sent from my SM-G360V using genital warts
In this case I was referring to the 3DS, not the Switch. I was wondering how much better the system would have sold had it been supported by western developers. This would ideally not be in the form of ports but rather games built to use the system effectively. We had decent western 3rd party support on the DS, which was significantly weaker than the 3DS, so I am still very curious as to how it would have turned out.
 
In this case I was referring to the 3DS, not the Switch. I was wondering how much better the system would have sold had it been supported by western developers. This would ideally not be in the form of ports but rather games built to use the system effectively. We had decent western 3rd party support on the DS, which was significantly weaker than the 3DS, so I am still very curious as to how it would have turned out.
I feel that at that point western 3rd parties had all but dropped portable development, but it would have helped for sure.
Which is why Goodtwin's point earlier is interesting and could be why 3rd parties are interested now, since they can have that handheld audience without having to develop specifically for it.

How many here are planning to buy Switch:
A) On Launch Day
B) Launch Window
C) By Holiday 2017
D) Not at all

And how many will you have in your household?

We will be a 2 Switch household, buying on Launch Day.
Launch day. only 1.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
How many here are planning to buy Switch:
A) On Launch Day
B) Launch Window
C) By Holiday 2017
D) Not at all

And how many will you have in your household?

We will be a 2 Switch household, buying on Launch Day.
Launch day at the least 1, tho I think Ima try and get 2.

For preorders I plan on watching the announcements on Jan 12th while standing inside of a gamestop to make sure I have one preordered for launch.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
Western Third parties have adopted a business model that doesnt typically target a single platform, unless the hardware manufacture is paying the bill. They like to create the product and release on as many platforms that make sense, typically PlayStation, Xbox and PC.

I'm day one for Switch.

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theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
If 3rd party support for Switch is on 3DS levels, I will be over the moon.

IMO, the narrative of Nintendo desperately needing lots more 3rd party support loses some relevance when you consider that the Switch will likely be replacing both the Wii U and the 3DS. Nintendo can consolidate development then and put out more games for one system, thus reducing droughts and giving potential buyers more of a reason to dive in.
EXACTLY!
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
How many here are planning to buy Switch:
A) On Launch Day
B) Launch Window
C) By Holiday 2017
D) Not at all

And how many will you have in your household?

We will be a 2 Switch household, buying on Launch Day.
Launch Day or Launch Window... want it on Launch Day, not sure I can swing it
I think we will start with 1, and then potentially get a second later on
 

SkywardCrowbar

Twintelle's loyal Husbando
How many here are planning to buy Switch:
A) On Launch Day
B) Launch Window
C) By Holiday 2017
D) Not at all

And how many will you have in your household?

We will be a 2 Switch household, buying on Launch Day.
I'm Day 1 for sure. Hopefully midnight! Just one system will be enough for me and the fiancee. We will probably be buying lots of games and peripherals right at launch. I would love it if Nintendo launched the thing with a battery life extender available for separate purchase.
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
It's not stupid.

Wii U is an example of a Nintendo-only console (mostly). What did they got? 14M users.

Nintendo needs 3rd party. A reasonable amount of 3rd party.

Nintendo can't survive on Mario Kart, Smash and Zelda only.
it is stupid because Nintendo will NOT get 3rd party parity.. it is stupid to think they will... even the gamecube didn't have it... and back when the wii u seemed like it would be success (remember it sold very fast initially) 3rd parties ignored it..... we got token games.. and Ubi.... but even ubi didn't bring far cry 3... rockstar completely ignored it, while developing for less powerful systems... we also didn't get bioshock infinite, or tomb raider.... again, this was BEFORE people realized the wii u was a flop because it DID sell out across the board early on.... I pre-ordered, but did so late and had to wait like 2 weeks before they got to my number... because it was sold out... constantly

"Nintendo can't survive on Mario Kart, Smash and Zelda only."

How about Mario Kart, Smash, Zelda, Mario, Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing, Metroid, Xenoblade, and Pikmin?

then how about we add in a few token Japanese 3rd party exclusives... like Bayonetta, No More Heroes, Bravely Default, Monster Hunter, Yokai Watch, Rune Factory, Phoenix Wright, Prof. Layton, Inazuma Eleven, Etrian Odyssey

to name a few

all on 1 system... with no droughts... and no unnecessary duplicates (like having a mario kart for both a console and a handheld) which allows for MORE first party games

still not enough? even though all of those games are ONLY available on Nintendo's 1 and only system, which should make it very attractive as a second system to the hardcore gamer who tends to won multiple systems.

ok then... lets add in Dragon Quest, which is now a multiplat game.... lets add in shin megami tensei which is divided by sub games thata re exclusive to platforms, and zero escape, which has traditionally been multiplat between 3ds and vita

oh... lets also throw in about 70% of Ubisoft's slate as long as the system remains successful... oh.. and every multiplat indy game, and a few indy exclusives....

that is looking pretty full to me.... maybe it isn't as dense as the lineups on the other systems.. but it doesn't have to be... it just needs consistant strong releases.... I would argue that its staggering exclusives lineup is FAR more attractive to the hardcore gamer than multiplats, as I said before that the hardcore gamer owns multiple systems... so they already have something to play all the big western games on...

but lets not also forget the advantage of the switch in its very concept... the reason bethesda finnaly decided to support it... the ability to make 1 game that acts as both a console game and a handheld game... bethesda probably could have made a paired down version of oblivion, or maybe even skyrim for the vita.... but that isn't their target market, so it isn't worth it for them... the switch is both a console and a handheld so it cana ct as a console release (their market) AND a handheld game (unexplored territory for them)...

so it WILL get SOME 3rd party games from the west because of that functionality alone...

you cannot look at the precedence of the wii u, because the switch is uncharted territory... and you can't think nintendo is stupid for not making a ps4 clone when even if they did they would not have scored 3rd party parity anyways....

there are, I believe, 3 points that people need to get into their heads...

1. it will take GENERATIONS (like 3 or 4) to repair the perception and relationships between 3rd parties and nintedno, and until that happens nintendo will NEVER be THE system to play multiplats on... PERIOD... so pull your head out of fantasy land and accept this as a reality... so we can move on.

2. Nintendo can NOT be competitive with sony and MS in pricing because they are a conservative company with shareholders who would shit a brick at nintendo suddenly taking huge losses on hardware

3. the thought that nintendo cannot survive alone is irrelevant considering we haven't had a single platform for all of nintendo's games since the original game boy launched... it is also misinformed to say that Nintendo is alone... see point number 1.... they do not have parity... not having parity does not equal being alone, it means having a smaller pool of friends... they cannot count on EA, they cannot count on Rockstar, they cannot count on Activision.... but hey.. that Bethesda kid just introduced himself for the first time, and that square enix guy who got in a big fight with nintendo decades ago has been splitting his time between sony and nintendo recently... Capcom only wants to hand out to play basketball, but that's something... Ubisoft really admires Nintendo and wants to hang out all the time, but his parents keep trying to get him to spend time with ms and sony as well... Atlus, Sega, the PTSD riddled Konami... they all hang with Nintendo... oh and then there are the freshmen (indys)... they want to impress all of their upperclassmen... but they are particularly enamored with Nintendo

so yeah.... maybe Nintendo doesn't have as many friends as sony and MS, but they still have a lot.. and now that the theater program and the basketball team have been merged (ok the analogy kindof breaks here, but still picture that) they can be a bit more focused and clear sighted... they don't have to divide their groups of friends into smaller circles, they can bring them all together and have some great fucking parties....

and when it comes to parties... Nintendo has the best music, food, and alcohol (exclusives) in town
 

Socar

Active Member
A: Nintendo's Third party support in Japan is better than it is in the west, but still FAR from ideal.
B: Regardless, what is your point? Third party parity is still one of Nintendo biggest weaknesses.

Pick your words and tone wisely this time please, else I won't bother to respond again.
Actually, it is ideal. Capcom, Square Enix, SEGA and Platinum alone is sufficient. These guys love to support Nintendo and they have no intention of stopping the support. Sure, Square Enix didn't really release a lot of Final Fantasy games for Nintendo this gen but they did release Dragon Quest which is as good as Final Fantasy.

My point is that Nintendo will never get a lot of western support no matter how powerful the Switch is going to be because these guys are just better off on mobile and pc. If you look at the PS4 and One, they are just PC built in systems with nothing that a PC can't do.

Do you honestly think that Switch will fix the "third party issue?" because I sure as hell don't think it will. If the Tegra is that powerful, it is bound to drain a lot of power and who knows how long the battery will last.

And if you still have hope on this, then I hope the western devs don't get too used to it because Nintendo is bound to innovate their next system which will not be the same like the Switch. Nintendo strives on innovation which these western devs don't like to get used to as they just want to make games on one screen with a traditional controller. That's not how the future of gaming should be and if games are not going to change from this tradition, then it cannot evolve and Nintendo seems to be the only one trying to offer new things to the gaming world.

Then there's the problem with the games themselves. I can't picture some random guy wanting to play call of duty on the bus or train whatever because handheld gaming is meant to be played on the go. And if the battery does have issues, then porting these games would be meaningless and just won't benefit Nintendo in the long run.
 

Koenig

The Architect
Nintendo can most certainly survive on their own, but they will never thrive. Without 3rd party parity they will remain a satellite in the video game industry, and never regain the center. Whether or not you care about Nintendo's position in the market is your own choice, but do consider the bigger picture.
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
Nintendo can most certainly survive on their own, but they will never thrive. Without 3rd party parity they will remain a satellite in the video game industry, and never regain the center. Whether or not you care about Nintendo's position in the market is your own choice, but do consider the bigger picture.
It is business, not sport... It isn't about being number 1, it is about making money... When the pst was destroying the gc, nintendo was making more money than Sony in the games market.... 3rd party parity is not going to happen... It isn't a maybe, it is a no... It will not happen
 

Koenig

The Architect
It is business, not sport... It isn't about being number 1, it is about making money...
If that was the case Nintendo would have gone 3rd party ages ago.
When the pst was destroying the gc, nintendo was making more money than Sony in the games market.... 3rd party parity is not going to happen... It isn't a maybe, it is a no... It will not happen
While I don't necessarily disagree, I get the feeling you missed my point completely.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
Xbox One is getting murdered in sales, and they have the same third party games. The pie is only so large when your targetting the exact same consumer. Xbox One is selling about 8 million units a year, in a normal 5 year cycle we are only talking 40 million units. The Wii U 3DS combination is at 70 million. Copying Microsoft and Sony simply slices up the pie with one more player fighting for marketshare.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
 

Superfakerbros

ECE 2018
Moderator
How many here are planning to buy Switch:
A) On Launch Day
B) Launch Window
C) By Holiday 2017
D) Not at all

And how many will you have in your household?

We will be a 2 Switch household, buying on Launch Day.
Seeing how I finally have some real disposable income, I can see myself picking up an NS for my birthday so that'd be during the launch window. But I still have a bit of a backlog to go through so I probably won't touch it much till I finish what I currently have, like Bloodborne and Fire Emblem: Birthright
 

Socar

Active Member
If that was the case Nintendo would have gone 3rd party ages ago.
Except that it will only make their business model worse and that it will corrupt the industry overall. There's a reason why Nintendo wants to stick to dedicated gaming systems and unless consoles are outdated/ if there is a trend that is higher than consoles, then Nintendo will never leave the console market.

Also they just started into the mobile market which is about as par as the PC market.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
All you need to do is look at some of the Indie developers that shifted focus away from mobile and back to dedicated gaming devices. The mobile market looks tempting because of the amount of potential customers, but it rarely pans out. Sure, a game like Angry Birds blew up and became a complete Phenom, but for every success, there are a thousand flops. The market on mobile is diluted with tons of shovelware. Nintendo was able to get great penetration with the use of the Pokémon IP, and will most certainly do well with Mario Run, but as a rule, dedicated gaming platforms are still where stability lies within the gaming market.

How quickly people forget that Nintendo is only 8 years from being high atop the mountain, with both the DS and Wii absolutely killing it. Two of the most successful gaming machines in history. Unlike the competition, Nintendo typically does make profit on its hardware, and that's why they wont be quick to abandon it. For Nintendo, its still viable to create hardware and make money on it. Think about how much money Nintendo has been making on the 3DS hardware for years. The NES classic has more powerful hardware than the 3DS, you can imagine that the profit margins on the 3DS XL are very high.

Nintendo needs to have a steady flow of quality games releasing on the Switch. If they can do this, they will be successful. I really don't see anyone buying a Switch for games like Assassins Creed and COD, even if they are on the platform. Its going to be selling based on the exclusives, and the concept of being able to play on the go and at home on the TV. Lets not forget marketing this time. Marketing is what got PS4 off to such a fast start. If Nintendo can nail the messaging this time, and launch with a bunch of quality games, its going to sell very well.
 
caveat being its the fastest selling NINTENDO game. (something people are spouting, as if somehow that makes it less impressive a feat)

Gamexplain editorializing is trash though. I dont really see how putting it on half-home-console would make it sell more, especially considering they wont have the install base as large as the 3DS family.
 

Cubits

Well-Known Member
Don't expect all that to come to reality because again, when people play portable games, most of them play games that are in short bursts of time. I don't know if I can picture an average person playing Fifa while on a bus because its a game that takes a lot of time...or forget even Fifa, games like Call of Duty certainly take a lot of time.

Even so, the support will only come when the Switch does well and while I'm positive that it will do well, it may not do so for the western devs.
The switch isn't just about bus trips though. FIFA is very much a "dad game", and off-TV play is a goddamned godsend when you're fighting for the TV (a fight you will never win, btw). You can't reasonably get that in FIFA. The same goes for all sports games, and things like grinding levels in RPG's. Off-TV play is the single best feature of the wii u.

And CoD is absolutely a game built for the ADD generation. The entire game is built around short-burst gameplay and instant gratification.
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
Your ignoring the fact that Switch unifys the 3DS and Wii U userbase, and that totals over 70 million users. No one is arguing that Nintendo can go it alone with no third party support, but the notion that western third parties will be critical ignores the success that 3DS had seen.

Sent from my SM-G360V using genital warts
it is stupid because Nintendo will NOT get 3rd party parity.. it is stupid to think they will... even the gamecube didn't have it... and back when the wii u seemed like it would be success (remember it sold very fast initially) 3rd parties ignored it..... we got token games.. and Ubi.... but even ubi didn't bring far cry 3... rockstar completely ignored it, while developing for less powerful systems... we also didn't get bioshock infinite, or tomb raider.... again, this was BEFORE people realized the wii u was a flop because it DID sell out across the board early on.... I pre-ordered, but did so late and had to wait like 2 weeks before they got to my number... because it was sold out... constantly

"Nintendo can't survive on Mario Kart, Smash and Zelda only."

How about Mario Kart, Smash, Zelda, Mario, Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing, Metroid, Xenoblade, and Pikmin?

then how about we add in a few token Japanese 3rd party exclusives... like Bayonetta, No More Heroes, Bravely Default, Monster Hunter, Yokai Watch, Rune Factory, Phoenix Wright, Prof. Layton, Inazuma Eleven, Etrian Odyssey

to name a few

all on 1 system... with no droughts... and no unnecessary duplicates (like having a mario kart for both a console and a handheld) which allows for MORE first party games

still not enough? even though all of those games are ONLY available on Nintendo's 1 and only system, which should make it very attractive as a second system to the hardcore gamer who tends to won multiple systems.

ok then... lets add in Dragon Quest, which is now a multiplat game.... lets add in shin megami tensei which is divided by sub games thata re exclusive to platforms, and zero escape, which has traditionally been multiplat between 3ds and vita

oh... lets also throw in about 70% of Ubisoft's slate as long as the system remains successful... oh.. and every multiplat indy game, and a few indy exclusives....

that is looking pretty full to me.... maybe it isn't as dense as the lineups on the other systems.. but it doesn't have to be... it just needs consistant strong releases.... I would argue that its staggering exclusives lineup is FAR more attractive to the hardcore gamer than multiplats, as I said before that the hardcore gamer owns multiple systems... so they already have something to play all the big western games on...

but lets not also forget the advantage of the switch in its very concept... the reason bethesda finnaly decided to support it... the ability to make 1 game that acts as both a console game and a handheld game... bethesda probably could have made a paired down version of oblivion, or maybe even skyrim for the vita.... but that isn't their target market, so it isn't worth it for them... the switch is both a console and a handheld so it cana ct as a console release (their market) AND a handheld game (unexplored territory for them)...

so it WILL get SOME 3rd party games from the west because of that functionality alone...

you cannot look at the precedence of the wii u, because the switch is uncharted territory... and you can't think nintendo is stupid for not making a ps4 clone when even if they did they would not have scored 3rd party parity anyways....

there are, I believe, 3 points that people need to get into their heads...

1. it will take GENERATIONS (like 3 or 4) to repair the perception and relationships between 3rd parties and nintedno, and until that happens nintendo will NEVER be THE system to play multiplats on... PERIOD... so pull your head out of fantasy land and accept this as a reality... so we can move on.

2. Nintendo can NOT be competitive with sony and MS in pricing because they are a conservative company with shareholders who would shit a brick at nintendo suddenly taking huge losses on hardware

3. the thought that nintendo cannot survive alone is irrelevant considering we haven't had a single platform for all of nintendo's games since the original game boy launched... it is also misinformed to say that Nintendo is alone... see point number 1.... they do not have parity... not having parity does not equal being alone, it means having a smaller pool of friends... they cannot count on EA, they cannot count on Rockstar, they cannot count on Activision.... but hey.. that Bethesda kid just introduced himself for the first time, and that square enix guy who got in a big fight with nintendo decades ago has been splitting his time between sony and nintendo recently... Capcom only wants to hand out to play basketball, but that's something... Ubisoft really admires Nintendo and wants to hang out all the time, but his parents keep trying to get him to spend time with ms and sony as well... Atlus, Sega, the PTSD riddled Konami... they all hang with Nintendo... oh and then there are the freshmen (indys)... they want to impress all of their upperclassmen... but they are particularly enamored with Nintendo

so yeah.... maybe Nintendo doesn't have as many friends as sony and MS, but they still have a lot.. and now that the theater program and the basketball team have been merged (ok the analogy kindof breaks here, but still picture that) they can be a bit more focused and clear sighted... they don't have to divide their groups of friends into smaller circles, they can bring them all together and have some great fucking parties....

and when it comes to parties... Nintendo has the best music, food, and alcohol (exclusives) in town
I don't want a Nintendo console with the same level of 3rd party support of the twin consoles. I always have said that Nintendo needs reasonable 3rd party.

1) Argument 1: There are people who think that Nintendo can survive alone with their 1st party titles. I don't believe it.

2) Argument 2: There are people who think that Nintendo needs 3rd party games as PS4 needs. I don't believe it.

When someone throws argument 1, I always reply with the Wii U example. It's a console basically supported by 1st party games. I remember when Nintendo announced MK and Smash and Nintendo fans were like "YEAHHH NOW IT'S GONNA DOMINATE" It failed.

About 3DS: I agree that 3DS has the reasonable level of support I'm asking and I hope Switch has it. That will be fine for me.




But, on to the next topic.....

Even though Switch might have the same fine level of 3DS support, I'm still a bit concerned

I know that Nintendo has (considering 3DS) Mario Kart, Smash, Zelda, Mario, Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Animal Crossing, Metroid, Xenoblade, Pikmin, Bayonetta, No More Heroes, Bravely Default, Monster Hunter, Yokai Watch, Rune Factory, Phoenix Wright, Prof. Layton, Inazuma Eleven, Etrian Odyssey and others.

That's a great list of franchises and it made 3DS hit 60m, but we've got to admit a few things:

1) 3DS is old. It sold incredible numbers in 2012, 2013, but it's not selling the same. The market in 2017 is going to be a lot different than 5 years ago. Switch is going to face an entire different world.

2) 3DS is very cheap. It's weak handheld console and today it's cheaper than ever with the 2DS model. It's the low price that made 3DS sell this numbers from 2014 on. It's not going to be hard to find a PS4 slim deal costing the same as a "weak tablet" Switch. (you know that a lot of people will see Switch as weak tablet).

3) Nintendo isn't making profit: 3DS hit 60m and has a very good list of Japanese franchises, it's brilliant but, Nintendo is still not making enough profit. So we have a successful 3DS, but Nintendo is in the red for half a decade. So, if Switch goes 3DS level of success, how can we be sure that Nintendo will make profit again? 3DS and their 1st and 2nd party content seems to be not enough and income numbers is the evidence.

PS: Doesn't Nintendo make any profit? Yes, they did last year for example, but it's little. We can't forget that Nintendo has been selling many assets in the last couple of years to make the tiny profit they're showing on the reports. A profit so tiny that Activision bought Candy Crush for a number bigger that 1 year of Nintendo profit. With all those franchises they own and they're still having a hard time.

4) Nintendo franchises are dwindling: Pokemon is the only Nintendo franchise that keeps selling 10-15m since the foundation. Mario Kart is doing great as well. However, Mario, Zelda and the others aren't selling as they used to back in the days of SNES, Wii and DS. Nintendo still makes million sellers, but it's clear that they're not the top of the industry any more. Nintendo audience are growing older. Nintendo is living a lot from nostalgia but it's not going to work forever.

5) Nintendo wants more 3rd party content: Nintendo fans don't care, but Nintendo cares. They're showing Skyrim and they're more and more (since Wii U) committing themselves to bring Westerner developers on board. So in this sense I think Nintendo agrees with me that they need a reasonable amount of 3rd party on the same level of 3DS, but hopefully much more. Nintendo just can't let games like CoD, Fifa and Minecraft out forever or Switch will be called niche like 3DS. Nintendo can't be niche. Being niche doesn't make enough money for a global conglomerate like Nintendo.

The thing is, you think that Switch just needs to be like 3DS and Nintendo will be fine, but 3DS is out there, sold 60m, and Nintendo is not fine. Plus, the challenges from 2017 on will be much more nasty than that world where 3DS was released.

Even though I have concerns about Switch, not only about its possible content but about other issues, I still think that Switch has everything to work out well. Don't get me wrong. I just don't share TNE's usual happiness about Switch and I'm not convinced that Nintendo doesn't need to be worried about the content that they've been providing since 2011.
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
How many here are planning to buy Switch:
A) On Launch Day
B) Launch Window
C) By Holiday 2017
D) Not at all

And how many will you have in your household?

We will be a 2 Switch household, buying on Launch Day.
E) After the first price-cut or the release of cheaper model and the Nintendo Switch Selects. Maybe by Holiday 2019.
 
Reasonable concerns, but I will be very angry if Nintendo can somehow spin a tablet that can play Zelda, Skyrim, Mario, Xenoblade, etc, in a way that doesnt make it sound like a high-end mobile device.

A lot of franchises are dwindling, but if we just touch just exclusives Nintendo still cleans up on the top of the charts on Wii U alone. If they can intelligently bring in most of the 3DS people that skipped the Wii U, those franchises wont seem so dwindling anymore.
 

sjmartin79

White Phoenix of the Crown
Reasonable concerns, but I will be very angry if Nintendo can somehow spin a tablet that can play Zelda, Skyrim, Mario, Xenoblade, etc, in a way that doesnt make it sound like a high-end mobile device.

A lot of franchises are dwindling, but if we just touch just exclusives Nintendo still cleans up on the top of the charts on Wii U alone. If they can intelligently bring in most of the 3DS people that skipped the Wii U, those franchises wont seem so dwindling anymore.
Excellent point.
If we use Mario Kart Wii as an example. It had a 36% attach rate (36.8 million copies and assuming 100 million consoles). Let's say Switch sells 60 million. That would be 21.6 million copies sold.
If we use Mario Kart 8, it had a 60% attach rate (8 million units sold). Let's say Switch sells 60 million. That would be 36 million copies sold.

If we use Mario 3D World. It had a 39% attach rate on the Wii U. Let's say Switch sells 60 million units. That would be 23.4 million copies sold.

Just a few examples, but it does show that if there are players, there are sales, and an argument can be made that if the Switch sells a good number of units, the First Party titles by Nintendo would have correspondingly good sales as well.
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
Excellent point.
If we use Mario Kart Wii as an example. It had a 36% attach rate (36.8 million copies and assuming 100 million consoles). Let's say Switch sells 60 million. That would be 21.6 million copies sold.
If we use Mario Kart 8, it had a 60% attach rate (8 million units sold). Let's say Switch sells 60 million. That would be 36 million copies sold.

If we use Mario 3D World. It had a 39% attach rate on the Wii U. Let's say Switch sells 60 million units. That would be 23.4 million copies sold.

Just a few examples, but it does show that if there are players, there are sales, and an argument can be made that if the Switch sells a good number of units, the First Party titles by Nintendo would have correspondingly good sales as well.
But, if Switch sells 60m, all the things I've posted today wouldn't be concern any more. Swich selling 60m, its attach rates wouldn't be a issue.

However, if Switch sells 15m, a 100% attach rate wouldn't help Nintendo at all.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
No one is arguing that Nintendo can be successful selling 15 million Switch units. I think the target performance for the hardware is 3DS levels of sales. Keep in mind that Nintendo was behind the curve with HD development, and thus had higher cost over the Wii U generation. All major publishers went through this process. Profits were very bad for publishers between 2006 and 2010 as they retooled and adapted to developing games in HD. Basically the Wii U flopping couldn't have been at a worse time for Nintendo. I believe a home run

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
No one is arguing that Nintendo can be successful selling 15 million Switch units. I think the target performance for the hardware is 3DS levels of sales. Keep in mind that Nintendo was behind the curve with HD development, and thus had higher cost over the Wii U generation. All major publishers went through this process. Profits were very bad for publishers between 2006 and 2010 as they retooled and adapted to developing games in HD. Basically the Wii U flopping couldn't have been at a worse time for Nintendo. I believe a home run

Sent from my SM-G360V using genital warts
I'm not arguing that either. I'm replying the argument of the high attach rates.

The developers in 2006 were pioneering HD development, Nintendo wasn't, HD was an old development process by Wii U time. Research cost is high for any new console and Wii U was high back in 2012 and 2013, but the problem is the low ROI after that time, even though they hadn't cut the price. After 2013, there's no excuse but low sales.
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
One thing to keep in mind when talking about the success of the 3DS, we all know it would be even more successful had it sold at a reasonable price point at launch, AND had games to back it up.

With the Switch, it does appear the price will be competitive from the start, and might also have a good deal of games. Time will tell of course, but I am cautiously optimistic of the Switch's first year on market.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
One thing to keep in mind when talking about the success of the 3DS, we all know it would be even more successful had it sold at a reasonable price point at launch, AND had games to back it up.

With the Switch, it does appear the price will be competitive from the start, and might also have a good deal of games. Time will tell of course, but I am cautiously optimistic of the Switch's first year on market.
Exactly. If the 3DS had been $199 at launch with Mario 3D Land, it would have gotten out of the gate so much quicker. Lets face it, even back in 2011, the 3DS was no technical marvel, which again points to the fact that having cutting edge hardware is not a key factor to success. Having a strong launch lineup of games with a competitive price coupled with strong marketing is a recipe for success. The fact that the 3DS is selling better this year than last has to be a noodle scratcher for a lot of people. The best seller version, by far, is the XL versions, which are the most expensive. 3DS isn't selling because its uber cheap, that just doesn't line up with what models sell the most. Its the games, and fills a market that Nintendo dominates. I can see how owning a 3DS and a PS4/X1/PC was more attractive than a 3DS Wii U combo for a lot of gamers. The Nintendo itch was scratched with the 3DS, and the other consoles offered a better spread of third party games.
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
We also have to keep in mind that the XL version sells significantly better because NoA pushed it with detriment to the normal one. Plus, there's Monster Hunter 4U and the Japanese who don't give two hoots about TV consoles and are buying tons of 3DS XL. (That's why I'm quite sure that Switch will be a leader in Japan, because it's mobile).

Still, 3DS XL is cheap comparing with the twins and usually families buy more than one 3DS. Pokemon is a franchise that makes you buy a 3DS for your, for you wife, for you children -- 2DS to everyone :) --

On the other hand, Switch will cost almost the same as a good deal on a PS4/X1 and so far I don't see Switch as console where you buy one for each your of your children. Switch is not as mobile and personal as a dedicated handheld console. Besides, 3DS is so cheap that makes you want to upgrade it (I have 3 DS units and 2 3DS units).

Is yet to be seen if Switch will have a "New Switch" in a few years. It's likely, but usually mid-generation upgrades don't help that much. I believe a "Mini Switch" (cheaper and mobile only) would, though, because that would make it the true 3DS successor -- A Mini Switch with Pokemon would do wonders for Nintendo.

In addition to that, Pokemon is one of the reasons of 3DS is doing so well this year. It's not really a combination of all franchises, but the success of one exceptional franchise. Pokemon Alpha Saphire and Sun/Moon keep selling tons while games released for 3DS several years ago aren't selling that good anymore (we don't see MK7 and others on the top charts any more, only the monster collecting titans Pokemon and Yokai Watch in Japan).

Pokemon is the only world-wide Nintendo franchise that keep conquering the world easily selling more than 10m. That's why I believe that the most important feature of Switch isn't the form factor, the controller, or the tablet, but the Pokemon Company wonderful baby on board.
 

tekshow

Active Member
I'm interested in seeing what the launch lineup really looks like. If there's two to three games I want on new hardware it'll definitely be a day one buy for me. Usually, like the PS4 and Wii U, I feel that owning the system for the first year is worth the general $50 price drop that usually follows. It's often time well spent, unless there's absolutely nothing to play, and for me personally that hasn't happened since N64 and Saturn.

Overall my hype level just keeps rising with all the good news. On J12 when we get s real taste for what it can do, the competency of the hardware and the games at launch I'll know if it's well deserved hype or not.

In regard to third party support mentioned earlier I think people tout that because they think of it as a selling point. It very well could be, but in my opinion it's Nintendo's lack of bragging and marketing that hurt them the most. Look at the differences in presentation between BotW and ME:Andromeda last night. Both games are epic in their scope and feel but EA went out of their way to TELL their audience how obviously epic the game will be. I'm excited to play both games, but then it's bemusing to see Nintendo kind of sit back and let Zelda present itself. While the game speaks volumes, the general public needs those marketing feels and annnouncer like voices to be told what to think.

Like how many people know how many exclusives are on the Wii U, or the 3ds for that mstter? Great, well received critical games. Yet they never bring it up. What happened to the "only" for Nintendo branding? In an era where people are racing to secure exclusive release windows and DLC Nintendo is the king of IP exclusivity. Oh Nintendo games right? A Wii U sizzle reel before it crashed would've been awesome. Xenobkade, Bayo, DK, 101, Pikmin, Kart, Splatoon all flying on screen... and then they could've brought in the VC.

It just never happens.. it's like they think putting it out here is the same as promoting and they're radically two different things.

So far with switch they seem to be shifting, building the excitement with the reveal, keeping the news going with BotW and maybe this January event will hit the home Run. My major point here was, if they just get better at messaging they really won't need third parties.
 

Koenig

The Architect
Since we finally have an idea of what the system looks like and what kind of games we might be getting, would guys mind if we turned our attention to what the OS/UI of the Switch might look like, and what we might want to see in it? IE how fast the OS/UI runs, its visual design, sounds, functionality (Netflix, E-shop, Media formats, etc) as well as any hidden features or touches you would want to see in it.

I would argue that the best OS/UI Nintendo has had in this regard was the Wii with it's simplisitc but unique channel theme, save sprites, channel intro's, music, etc. The Wii U and 3DS by comparison felt somewhat generic, not to mention axing some of those aspects altogether.
 
3DS bounced back a whole lot with themes (that also changed menu music and sounds) and badges, a lot of cute little customization could be done there. I suspect they'd fall more down this path than Wara Wara Plaza.
 
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