Official Super Mario Odyssey Thread - "Woohoo!"

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#52
Spoilers: This game will be more linear than you think.
Dont believe Nintendo's lies. I dont know what they mean when they say Sandbox, but y'all setting yourselves up for a grand slam of disappointment.
I don't really give a shit if it's a fucking sandbox, or a goddamn linear adventure. The only thing I want is a fucking 3D Mario game.

(sorry, I'm watching Reservoir Dogs right now, and all the fucking swearing is getting to my fucking head. At least I can still hear out of my left ear though, so that's good)
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
#53
Spoilers: This game will be more linear than you think.
Dont believe Nintendo's lies. I dont know what they mean when they say Sandbox, but y'all setting yourselves up for a grand slam of disappointment.
Sandbox for Nintendo could be anything. Zelda is Open Air and I don't have the faintest idea what on earth it is.
 

Koenig

The Architect
#61
Luigi is honestly just an all around better character IMO; Unless they are using him for the sake of the story (Though we won't find much of that outside the original Mario RPG's anymore) I would generally much rather play as Luigi in place of Mario.
 

Socar

Active Member
#62
Luigi is honestly just an all around better character IMO; Unless they are using him for the sake of the story (Though we won't find much of that outside the original Mario RPG's anymore) I would generally much rather play as Luigi in place of Mario.
Yeah...I mean, I love Mario and all...but green dude can jump higher. Infact, if I remember correctly, I played this galaxy using Mario to get this green star in SMG2 which took me nearly 3 HOURS to GET!!!!!!!

 

Socar

Active Member
#65
The game's amazing no doubt in that....I really wish I can get my hands on it as soon as possible........

Meanwhile I don't understand why Nintendo wants to take advantage of using licensed game engines when they can use custom engines. Yeah I get that in some cases, Licensed game engines can make games faster but research wise, its best to learn things on your own and do things on your own for that.

I'm starting to wonder if Nintendo will consider to stop using custom game engines infavor of using just licensed game engines.
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#66
The game's amazing no doubt in that....I really wish I can get my hands on it as soon as possible........

Meanwhile I don't understand why Nintendo wants to take advantage of using licensed game engines when they can use custom engines. Yeah I get that in some cases, Licensed game engines can make games faster but research wise, its best to learn things on your own and do things on your own for that.

I'm starting to wonder if Nintendo will consider to stop using custom game engines infavor of using just licensed game engines.
In simple terms, it takes a lot of the usual guesswork out of the equation. Rather than making something from scratch that might end up inferior anyway, you take something already existing, and modify it to your needs.

Now I'm curious, why does it concern you if Nintendo uses licensed game engines or not?
 

Socar

Active Member
#68
In simple terms, it takes a lot of the usual guesswork out of the equation. Rather than making something from scratch that might end up inferior anyway, you take something already existing, and modify it to your needs.

Now I'm curious, why does it concern you if Nintendo uses licensed game engines or not?
Generally, when you make a custom engine, you have to consider budget constraints, how the engine can handle stuff and how much you learn out of all this. Custom engines do more than licensed engines and the less they use custom engines, the more they will shift towards western based engines further reducing their knowledge of developing games and when you lose knowledge, you lack in creativity.

And while Super Mario Odyssey doesn't seem to have any lack of creativity, it does mean that this might give limits on why this feature was removed and all etc etc.

And then there's royalty issues. Now for Nintendo, its pretty cheap for them to keep paying royalties for using licensed game engines like Unity. But then that's where devs will take the advantage of this and two things can happen.

1. Devs like Epic can simply just quit making games and just only stick into making powerful game engines.

2. Royalties right now aren't expensive but this practice will most likely prompt licensed engines to be more expensive than custom game engines and soon devs like Nintendo will find them the same amount of cost that it takes to make a custom engine so they might as well use custom engines instead.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
#69
@Socar

Its pretty simple why so many developers are moving towards licensed game engines. Game development now works more like an assembly line. Asset creation is 90% of the workload these days. Its takes a massive amount of time and energy to create all the pieces. Here is a quote from Steve Jobs:

The difference between the best worker on computer hardware and the average may be 2 to 1, if you’re lucky. With automobiles, maybe 2 to 1. But in software, it’s at least 25 to 1. The difference between the average programmer and a great one is at least that.
Like a factory, developers need to get adequate productivity from their workforce, and very few of them are exceptional at their jobs. Programmers are just like any other profession, most people within the profession are not exceptional, and likely very average. Using game engines like Unreal 4 drastically cut down on the expertise needed to acquire good results. Its not that like when using Unreal 4 the developer is somehow unable to write custom code, they can, but instead of writing everything from scratch it can be done as required.

There will always be exceptional people, and Nintendo will continue to have inhouse high level programmers, but games now require so many people to be able to simultaneously work on a project, and using tools like Unreal 4 help to streamline development, increasing productivity, and game create time is reduced thus also reducing cost. The good thing about Nintendo working so close with Epic and Nvidia is that as programming challenges are presented within Nintendo first party game development, the improvements made can then be rolled out in an update to Unreal 4, benefiting all developers using the engine for the platform.

I remember Shin'en talking about their game engine and how its fairly easy for them to take ownership of their code because there is only a handful of people working there, but that would be near impossible for a modern AAA game in development because of how many people are working on the project at any given time.
 

Socar

Active Member
#70
@Socar

Its pretty simple why so many developers are moving towards licensed game engines. Game development now works more like an assembly line. Asset creation is 90% of the workload these days. Its takes a massive amount of time and energy to create all the pieces. Here is a quote from Steve Jobs:

Like a factory, developers need to get adequate productivity from their workforce, and very few of them are exceptional at their jobs. Programmers are just like any other profession, most people within the profession are not exceptional, and likely very average. Using game engines like Unreal 4 drastically cut down on the expertise needed to acquire good results. Its not that like when using Unreal 4 the developer is somehow unable to write custom code, they can, but instead of writing everything from scratch it can be done as required.

There will always be exceptional people, and Nintendo will continue to have inhouse high level programmers, but games now require so many people to be able to simultaneously work on a project, and using tools like Unreal 4 help to streamline development, increasing productivity, and game create time is reduced thus also reducing cost. The good thing about Nintendo working so close with Epic and Nvidia is that as programming challenges are presented within Nintendo first party game development, the improvements made can then be rolled out in an update to Unreal 4, benefiting all developers using the engine for the platform.

I remember Shin'en talking about their game engine and how its fairly easy for them to take ownership of their code because there is only a handful of people working there, but that would be near impossible for a modern AAA game in development because of how many people are working on the project at any given time.
Thing is that games have always been an assembly line. Again there are many benefits that custom engines have that licensed engines don't. The reason why licensed engines is a thing isn't because of how easy it is or how fast it is to make games. Its simply because of this mentality that using a licensed engine is the same as a custom engine and I don't really like that kind of statement.

Idk..maybe this is just me not fine with Nintendo trying licensed game engines for their games.
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
#71
Thing is that games have always been an assembly line. Again there are many benefits that custom engines have that licensed engines don't. The reason why licensed engines is a thing isn't because of how easy it is or how fast it is to make games. Its simply because of this mentality that using a licensed engine is the same as a custom engine and I don't really like that kind of statement.

Idk..maybe this is just me not fine with Nintendo trying licensed game engines for their games.
something begin something is different than something being more of something

my dad is a bit of a racist, he's old, almost 80, he isn't harmful to anyone, but there are moments that he will say something that makes the rest of my family's eyes bug out... but he isn't going to lynch his black neighbors... just because he is racist and Nazi Germany was racist.. does not mean they were the same thing

game development is MORE of an assembly line than ever before, and it will continue to progress in that direction

and so, middle-ware licensed game engines will become more and more common... and not even just the big full engines like unreal, but engines for specific things... Nintendo used havoc for physics, but then coded their own chemistry engine for breath of the wild... hell, if they wanted to... nintendo could license out that chemistry engine... but that added business isn't worth their time and the loss of industry secrets for them...

but there is another side to this... I believe it is the new yoshi game that is running unreal engine 4.... I think this has less to do with them not having an engine that would work for it.. and more for them to develop further their relationship with Epic Games.. it also gives them a chance to test out the middle-ware that 3rd parties might be using on their hardware... which is valuable data to have when communicating with 3rd parties.

I think that if you see nintendo using a licensed game engine it is more likely that they are doing so for the data and relationships than to save money and time... but that is because nintendo has numerous game engines that were internally developed, that they know every nook and cranny of... that they can get the most out of.. and they are already there because they made them for other games they already put out... so they don't really NEED the engines at this time
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#72
Thing is that games have always been an assembly line. Again there are many benefits that custom engines have that licensed engines don't. The reason why licensed engines is a thing isn't because of how easy it is or how fast it is to make games. Its simply because of this mentality that using a licensed engine is the same as a custom engine and I don't really like that kind of statement.

Idk..maybe this is just me not fine with Nintendo trying licensed game engines for their games.
Honestly, it probably is just you. If a licensed game engine is better, more efficient, and better suited for the hardware compared to their own in-house developed engines, it only makes perfect sense for Nintendo to go this route. And as far as what you were saying earlier, remember that Nintendo are a multi-billion dollar corporation, so they likely get incentives and deals from software developers such as Epic Games for something like UE4, so in the long run it might be cheaper for them to take the guesswork out. Rather than having to create the template themselves, the template is already given to them, and Nintendo can use that to their advantage, which also includes making development more streamlined, cutting down development cycles, and in the end, save them money. Also remember that most of their in-house engines were designed for a completely different architecture. This is probably the reason why BotW on Switch hasn't improved much over the Wii U version besides increased resolution, and a slightly more consistent framerate (that and time is a factor).

Not saying this is the real reason, but whatever the case may be, game development has become so much more involved, and requires so much more manpower than it ever used to. Iwata, when he was developing Ballon Fight, took him if I recall only a month to make. Back in the 1980s when computer graphics were a lot simpler, it required a lot less time and effort. Today though? If Ballon Fight were made today by Nintendo (always a possibility, but still unlikely), it would require dozens of programmers, producers, and other artists, and it would take 12-18 months to finish. This is all due to the complexity of computer graphics today.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
#73
When a game engine like Unreal 4 supports a platform, this means Epic did a lot of work to tailor the engine to that platform. Companies who create games engines so nice that other people are willing to pay to use them are typically pretty darn good at their craft. I remember members of Vigil talking about how they wished they had just licensed an engine when making Dark Siders. They spent tons of effort on their tech, and probably ended up with an inferior product in the end. Games are all developed on a PC, its the export function of the engine that customizes the code for the platform of choice. The developer is then free to customize code as they see fit. If a developer wanted to, they could use Unreal 4, and then create all their own custom shaders. Its all accessible to them.

Also, hardware has become far less custom over the past two generations. PS3 and 360 used pretty standard DX9 level programmable shaders. PS4 and X1 are even more PC'ish than ever before. Switch uses a stock Tegra X1 chip. There is nothing exotic about the hardware powering any console theses days. Gone are the days of the Emotion engine with PS2, or the TEV unit in the Gamecube.

Like @theMightyME was suggesting, because Nintendo is using Unreal 4 with some of their games, this will only help Epic continue to improve the engine for the platform. Making it even easier for third parties to get good results on Switch.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#74
Also, hardware has become far less custom over the past two generations. PS3 and 360 used pretty standard DX9 level programmable shaders. PS4 and X1 are even more PC'ish than ever before. Switch uses a stock Tegra X1 chip. There is nothing exotic about the hardware powering any console theses days. Gone are the days of the Emotion engine with PS2, or the TEV unit in the Gamecube.
Yeah, I think this is probably the bigger deal, honestly. We no longer live in a world where a Sega Saturn has a dual-CPU/8-processor setup versus the Playstation's R3000-based CPU (and no debugger) versus the N64's "64-but-mostly-32-bit CPU" and unified memory. People used to build custom engines because they absolutely had to. Now, there's more standardization and scalability than ever before. You don't spend a month trying to get a triangle to appear onscreen like programming for the PS2's 10 processors.

And where I used to argue "well still, better to go bespoke than pay licensing fees on every copy sold," now the royalty structure isn't terribly prohibitive. And when the hardware out there isn't that customized, you start losing the point of even needing highly customized software-framework. Really, that's probably where Nintendo finds themselves now. Even up to Wii U, they were probably carrying over a programming pipeline from the GC era-PPC (info on GC engines here, and N64 engines here, for reference). But for a Tegra X1 chip? They aren't going to squeeze special sauce out of that silicon.
 
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Koenig

The Architect
#75
Just gotta say, Super Mario is looking good. With MHXX no longer coming out this year, Odyssey is now my most anticipated game of 2017; shoutout to @FriedShoes for the copy, I can't wait to get my hands on it this October :mfancy:
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#81
I love and appreciate our forum community more than y’all know.

That being said I have been on blackout on this game since the very first trailer. Since then I know and have seen nothing.

If anyone feels the need to post anything even somewhat spoilers PLEASE put it in a spoilers tag.

I did the exact same thing with BotW and I believe it enhanced my enjoyment of it. Now I don’t worry about you guys I know your a respectful lot.

I would appreciate this a lot tho and thank you in advance.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#82
After an hour of play and only being exposed to the first trailer.

People should not be able to make games like this. My mind has been blown multiple times. I’m going to bed :mshock:
 

Koenig

The Architect
#83
I. Hate.All.Of.You.
I am very jealous of everyone who is playing the game right now. The wait is killing me. I am so eager to play the game and share my thoughts with y'all once I actually have it.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#84
I. Hate.All.Of.You.
I am very jealous of everyone who is playing the game right now. The wait is killing me. I am so eager to play the game and share my thoughts with y'all once I actually have it.
Now I hope you feel terrible for beating me by default for this game.

(Don’t worry tho I’m playing just to make sure it’s no good. And your not missing anything special :^) *face_ @FriedShoes *
 

simplyTravis

Lamer Gamers Podcast Co-Host
#86
I have been sort of excited for Mario but haven't really been all in just yet. After a couple hours of Mario Odyssey...

I'm all in.

This game is way more than I anticipated. The animations, the textural effects, the charm of the characters, the music, the backgrounds, the gameplay...it...its amazing. How can Nintendo put out two games this damn good in one year?!? I would not want to be the people voting on game of the year for an awards show because you know that can't be easy.

I saw the Gamexplain video about the graphics and saw some complaints online about it not being 1080p but...who cares? This game is drop dead gorgeous. It runs buttery smooth and really shines in a way few games do. I would dare say that I'm just as visually impressed by Destiny 2 as I am Mario Odyssey at this point. Both games are beautiful but Mario has just a tad bit more "life" to the animations.
 
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mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#87
I have been sort of excited for Mario but haven't really been all in just yet. After a couple hours of Mario Odyssey...

I'm all in.

This game is way more than I anticipated. The animations, the textural effects, the charm of the characters, the music, the backgrounds, the gameplay...it...its amazing. How can Nintendo put out two games this damn good in one year?!? I would not want to be the people voting on game of the year for an awards show because you know that can't be easy.

I saw the Gamexplain video about the graphics and saw some complaints online about it not being 1080p but...who cares? This game is drop dead gorgeous. It runs buttery smooth and really shines in a way few games do. I would dare say that I'm just as impressed by Destiny 2 as I am Mario Odyssey at this point. Both games are beautiful but Mario has just a tad bit more "life" to the animations.
Ooooooooooo Travis..........you had me totally till you put Destiny 2 and Mario Odyssey in the same sentence. :msick:
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#89
Ok so I went from the pro controller to the separated joycons pretty swiftly when I started the game.

After using the joycons I’m realizing I’m not using the motion control at all.

So for today’s experiment I’m goin back to the pro to see if I can execute these more difficult jumps to pull off.

For whatever reason I’m havin trouble with them outta the joycons. And if the motion isn’t helpin anyhow Ima try and go back to see if the bigger controller works.

I only switched to see what the hoopla was all about with the motion controls. Now the joycons separated feel awesome with the sliders on that’s how I played BotW and loved it. In this game tho I had rather feel more confident in my platforming ability than worry about the motion controls.

I’ll be back for results
 

simplyTravis

Lamer Gamers Podcast Co-Host
#91
Ok so I went from the pro controller to the separated joycons pretty swiftly when I started the game.

After using the joycons I’m realizing I’m not using the motion control at all.

So for today’s experiment I’m goin back to the pro to see if I can execute these more difficult jumps to pull off.

For whatever reason I’m havin trouble with them outta the joycons. And if the motion isn’t helpin anyhow Ima try and go back to see if the bigger controller works.

I only switched to see what the hoopla was all about with the motion controls. Now the joycons separated feel awesome with the sliders on that’s how I played BotW and loved it. In this game tho I had rather feel more confident in my platforming ability than worry about the motion controls.

I’ll be back for results
I am going back and forth at this moment. There are a few things in the game where I feel like the motion controls are worth it. Currently I'm running individual comfort grips and the sliders. It's helping some but it ain't great. Give me a joycon with button layouts and grip like the pro controller and I'd be happy. Idgaf if its not aesthetically pleasing with the console.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#94
Only thing that I like about motion controls is how easy it is to spin the cap around. Other than that, I'm doing the hard platforming just fine without the motions. The trickiest practical moves I can think of:
A) For vertical reach, do a backflip, throw the cap, after landing do another backflip to reach the cap, bounce off it, wall-jump, then throw the cap again to do the belly flop forward.
B) For long reach, do a long jump, throw the cap, belly flop into a bounce of the cap, throw the cap and another belly flop. I can do both moves just fine in handheld mode, without any motion controls.

By the way I feel like I have so much more freedom in this mario game than in any other. It's almost like being able to pull off the co-op moves of 3D World and NSMBW without needing the second player.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#95
Only thing that I like about motion controls is how easy it is to spin the cap around. Other than that, I'm doing the hard platforming just fine without the motions. The trickiest practical moves I can think of:
A) For vertical reach, do a backflip, throw the cap, after landing do another backflip to reach the cap, bounce off it, wall-jump, then throw the cap again to do the belly flop forward.
B) For long reach, do a long jump, throw the cap, belly flop into a bounce of the cap, throw the cap and another belly flop. I can do both moves just fine in handheld mode, without any motion controls.

By the way I feel like I have so much more freedom in this mario game than in any other. It's almost like being able to pull off the co-op moves of 3D World and NSMBW without needing the second player.
I need to figure out exactly how to do these.
 

simplyTravis

Lamer Gamers Podcast Co-Host
#96
I need to figure out exactly how to do these.
I've found these explanations on reddit:

Jump > Double Jump > Triple Jump > Throw Cappy > Ground Pound > Dive (Hit Y after Ground Pound, hold Y) into Cappy to jump again.

You can do this near a wall, then Wall Jump > Hold analog stick towards your original direction and hit Y to throw Cappy > Ground Pound into Dive into Cappy Jump.

When diving, it's important to use one of the Cappy buttons (X or Y) to hold Cappy in midair and use the other one to dive. This is where I got stuck for a long time!

You can ground pound then press Y in mid-air to do a forwards dive. If you press Y to throw cappy, then dive instantly after, you'll bounce off cappy and go further forwards. Unfortunately, this can only be done once before you land
And then Kotaku put out this:

 
#98
"Beat" the game.
This is my Game of the Year, easily, and that sounds early to say because I've spent way more time in Zelda, but thats just how I feel. Instant classic, I honestly think its a travesty its not at 99 on Metacritic right now. It is pure amazing, oh my god. I could not keep my emotions intact at the end there, I loved every second and after that am still really stunned at all this stuff after the fact.
 

Karkashan

Married to Chrom
#99
I love this game. It's just so charming.

I'm not gonna 100% it, I can already tell, because there are some coins/moons that just seem not worth it (anything with the Yaxi, anyone? I can't be the only one to feel this pain)

praisegrima
 

sjmartin79

White Phoenix of the Crown
My goal is to 100% the game. I keep hunting/collecting Moons in each area till I walk past Toad and he says "No more hints for this area", so I know that I've gotten as many as possible in that Kingdom before beating the game. I'm at 199 Moons and just arrived in Metro Kingdom.

I have a slower and more methodical play through than Steve2. I like to explore every nook and cranny. (I do the same in all Zelda games) Steve is more "go, go, go"!
 
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