Project CARS PS4 vs PC Maximum Settings Screenshot Comparison

Odo

Well-Known Member
#52
Wii U version update

...We could reach a fairly solid 30FPS [on Wii U] but it might take a hell of a lot of work. On the other hand, about halfway through us finishing, Nintendo might announce a new console (I have zero knowledge on this BTW but I've heard 'rumours'). Our work might just be the best thing that ever hit that new console in the driving sim genre.

So we're playing a waiting game at the moment and yes, economics do come in to it.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ping_for_nintendo_hardware_announcement_at_e3
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#53
Wii U version update

...We could reach a fairly solid 30FPS [on Wii U] but it might take a hell of a lot of work. On the other hand, about halfway through us finishing, Nintendo might announce a new console (I have zero knowledge on this BTW but I've heard 'rumours'). Our work might just be the best thing that ever hit that new console in the driving sim genre.

So we're playing a waiting game at the moment and yes, economics do come in to it.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ping_for_nintendo_hardware_announcement_at_e3
I think the more telling quote is the earlier one:

======================
"OK I'll come clean. At the moment we're running at about 23FPS [at 720p] on the WiiU.

We're awaiting/hoping for more of a hardware announcement at E3...

...Honestly, unless we really cut the looks back I think we're looking to Nintendo's next console.
...I suppose if they don't announce something at E3 or soon after we will have a go at it."
======================

Good grief.

I'm sure these fellows and ladies are fantastic developers and passionate about their work, but this is example A-Z of why it's so difficult to trust a dev interview pre-launch. You can't go from saying "it looks phenomenal"....to...."well, it's not running at an acceptable framerate, so we're either cutting way back or waiting for new hardware."

Seriously, guys. There's hype and then there's dishonesty. Don't say the game looks "phenomenal" and the hardware is "quite good" to saying the game is probably going into development hell because of hardware challenges.

I'd be fine with them dropping the resolution sub-720p. Put it at 640p or 600p and get it out the door. Most people will seriously not notice some blurriness after the scaler does its job. Delaying the game longer isn't going to do them any favors. They'll start running up against first-party releases. And as much as I want CARS, if it launches too close to XCX, Splatoon, Devil's Third, Zelda, SMTxFE? Those games come first.

[EDIT: Here is the dev's response on going sub-720p. Aaaaand...I kinda call shenanigans. I'm sorry, but if your tire physics are choking the entire CPU, seriously, what the hell are you doing with those tires?]
 
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EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#54
Wait, this is from later in that thread, the dev's most recent reply (as of my posting):

"Not too late and no final decision has been made, but at this point, we really are looking to new hardware."
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...ii-U-run-PCARS&p=945675&viewfull=1#post945675

This is why I don't do Kickstarter-like donations for games anymore.

If I were a Wii U owner who was a backer for this game? I'd be pissed.
 
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Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
#55
Yea, but was Wii U parts of their kickstarter? If not, why not go with a modest kickstarter for the Wii U build, and see what happens.

Sounds like its their physics engine that is the culprit, and it sounds like they have a less demanding physics engine that could be implemented, but they dont want to do it. Basically, dont be surprised one way or the other, I could them releasing it on Wii U later this year once they see that NX isnt coming any time soon.

I dont really care if they scrap the Wii U build, but it is annoying that these developers lie through their teeth. The Wii U build looks great and is very promising turns into, the Wii U is a turd that cant handle our menu screen. Dont lead people on, just make the call and stick to it. Your not doing Wii U owners any service by releasing it later on NX, it will be bargain bin PS4/X1 software by then. Heck, it will probably be bargain bin later this year even if they do release a Wii U build.
 

the_randomizer

Well-Known Member
#56
Wii U version update

...We could reach a fairly solid 30FPS [on Wii U] but it might take a hell of a lot of work. On the other hand, about halfway through us finishing, Nintendo might announce a new console (I have zero knowledge on this BTW but I've heard 'rumours'). Our work might just be the best thing that ever hit that new console in the driving sim genre.

So we're playing a waiting game at the moment and yes, economics do come in to it.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ping_for_nintendo_hardware_announcement_at_e3
That's the dumbest thing I've heard them say. The NX is NOT being revealed at E3, nor is it being launched in 2016. Top that off with the fact that, should they kill the port, a lot of Wii U owners will be screwed out of. This is why I never fund games. Bloody wankers.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#57
Yea, but was Wii U parts of their kickstarter? If not, why not go with a modest kickstarter for the Wii U build, and see what happens.

Sounds like its their physics engine that is the culprit, and it sounds like they have a less demanding physics engine that could be implemented, but they dont want to do it. Basically, dont be surprised one way or the other, I could them releasing it on Wii U later this year once they see that NX isnt coming any time soon.

I dont really care if they scrap the Wii U build, but it is annoying that these developers lie through their teeth. The Wii U build looks great and is very promising turns into, the Wii U is a turd that cant handle our menu screen. Dont lead people on, just make the call and stick to it. Your not doing Wii U owners any service by releasing it later on NX, it will be bargain bin PS4/X1 software by then. Heck, it will probably be bargain bin later this year even if they do release a Wii U build.
Unfortunately, we can't check. I searched Kickstarter, and there's no page. Maybe pages get taken down once they're fulfilled? But at one point, they were aiming for PS3 and 360, as well, so I'm pretty sure Wii U was there near the beginning. [EDIT: See majico's reply below on how they crowd-sourced.]

It must be one hell of a physics system. Even then, I'd wager a good chunk of people will do stuff like turn tire wear off (to simplify for the CPU, they could just set it at a particular lap with a random +/- for one to five laps for the whole field's grip...and you can just run a simplified grip +/- for wet conditions if the computational task is too taxing on the CPU - we're gamers, we aren't Senna in the wet, or Kimi Raikkonen preserving tires). If they can't dial something back, it makes me wonder what's going on with the programming of the game on Wii U. Maybe their code just doesn't play well with the U. I'm sure the reply would be "but this system is all about realism and we can't dial things like that," but making a game is about actually delivering a game. Compromises get made. This comment, in particular, makes me curious:

"We knew it wouldn't be feasible just a few weeks ago when none of our optimisations were working as we hoped they would. It's our fault, no one elses. Nintendo's CPU is actually very good. We just went nuts with the detail in the tyre model when we switched to next gen systems."

OK...sooooooooooo...why not go back to the pre-next gen detail of the tire model?

Seriously, I'd like an answer there. Or why lowering the native resolution won't free up some of the CPU or the like.

[Just saw the "sense of entitlement" comment from them. I mean, I get that there's frustration, but sheesh. You can't crowdsource, then act like the crowd is "acting entitled" if they want to see what they put their money toward. Again, it gets off on a tangent, but this is why I'm really not big on crowdsourcing games - you do not get to have people donate to you and then act affronted when people ask what they paid for.]
That's the dumbest thing I've heard them say. The NX is NOT being revealed at E3, nor is it being launched in 2016.
It's kinda making it sound like the Wii U version became an afterthought. If they're just now getting around to realizing there won't be new hardware at E3 (and, that being the case, the earliest likely NX date would be holiday 2016)? Unless, of course, they know some peeps at Nintendo who have hipped them to a big surprise. Unlikely, but hey, I like being an optimist.
 
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Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#58
Unfortunately, we can't check. I searched Kickstarter, and there's no page. Maybe pages get taken down once they're fulfilled? But at one point, they were aiming for PS3 and 360, as well, so I'm pretty sure Wii U was there near the beginning.
It seems it was funded through "World of Mass Development", a different crowdfunding service.
http://www.wmdportal.com/projects/cars/
 

nerdman

pig's gotta fly
#59
They seem shady. They take money for PS3, 360, and Wii U, but cancel the first two (Wii U will surely follow). People who put money expecting to play on those platforms didn't get refunds.

OK...sooooooooooo...why not go back to the pre-next gen detail of the tire model?

Seriously, I'd like an answer there.
Because that means redoing the asset.

I think a functional port is possible, but I can't blame them for not wanting to put a ton of effort on a venture that is guaranteed to lose them money.
 

nerdman

pig's gotta fly
#60
PROJECT CARS DEV RESPONDS TO CRITICISM OVER WII U VERSION

It was always a "maybe".LUKE KARMALIThe studio head of Project Cars developer Slightly Mad Studios has released a statement addressing criticisms about the Wii U version of the game.

Speaking to Nintendo Life, Ian Bell explained that a Wii U version was never guaranteed, and the team would much rather wait for Nintendo's next console rather than compromise on their vision and deliver a product that doesn't live up to expectations.

Making The Most Out of Project CARS
02:09

"Project Cars/Weapons of Mass Development opened funding initially as a free-to-play PC only racing game," Bell explained. "This is when the bulk of the funding arrived. Funding was closed late 2013. By vote of the members, it changed to a boxed product PC/Xbox 360/PS3 and 'maybe Wii U' game. It was always 'maybe' as we had no knowledge of the system.

"It was again changed, by vote of the members, to a PC/Xbox One/PS4 next-gen game with still 'maybe Wii U' and Steam OS. The funding, as I said above, was closed long before this. We still haven't given up on Wii U 100 per cent but if we can't make it work we will move to the next Nintendo machine."
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#61
When they say "members", from what I understand of that website they used to crowdfund the project, they mean "backers". So if it came to a majority vote for the backers, and the backers always pushed the Wii U version off to a "maybe", there isn't all that much to do about it, I think.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#62
It seems it was funded through "World of Mass Development", a different crowdfunding service.
http://www.wmdportal.com/projects/cars/
My bad. Edited a bit above for clarity.
They seem shady. They take money for PS3, 360, and Wii U, but cancel the first two (Wii U will surely follow). People who put money expecting to play on those platforms didn't get refunds.


Because that means redoing the asset.

I think a functional port is possible, but I can't blame them for not wanting to put a ton of effort on a venture that is guaranteed to lose them money.
I'd be pretty surprised if the code base they built for physics didn't have some sort of historical benchmark listing and backup, though ("on such and such a date, this is what changed"). If they had to re-write the entire car physics code from scratch, then yeah, I'd understand.
PROJECT CARS DEV RESPONDS TO CRITICISM OVER WII U VERSION

It was always a "maybe".LUKE KARMALIThe studio head of Project Cars developer Slightly Mad Studios has released a statement addressing criticisms about the Wii U version of the game.

Speaking to Nintendo Life, Ian Bell explained that a Wii U version was never guaranteed, and the team would much rather wait for Nintendo's next console rather than compromise on their vision and deliver a product that doesn't live up to expectations.

Making The Most Out of Project CARS
02:09

"Project Cars/Weapons of Mass Development opened funding initially as a free-to-play PC only racing game," Bell explained. "This is when the bulk of the funding arrived. Funding was closed late 2013. By vote of the members, it changed to a boxed product PC/Xbox 360/PS3 and 'maybe Wii U' game. It was always 'maybe' as we had no knowledge of the system.

"It was again changed, by vote of the members, to a PC/Xbox One/PS4 next-gen game with still 'maybe Wii U' and Steam OS. The funding, as I said above, was closed long before this. We still haven't given up on Wii U 100 per cent but if we can't make it work we will move to the next Nintendo machine."
I respect these guys as developers, but c'mon, this is nonsense. Look at our own interview with 'em. The Wii U build existed, they said it looked great, and they didn't give any indication that the game was some "maybe" or hypothetical build.

They announced the game was coming for Wii U. Not "maybe coming." They did press saying the game existed. They talked about how well the game was doing on the hardware. They even pushed back the release date for this specific version. You can't say a game was "always a maybe" when you had a release date you moved for it.

Pretty shaky PR. Just tell the truth - SMS tricked out the game for the PS4 and One, the Wii U build would take a bit more work, but the audience just isn't there for the game to justify it. Disappointing for a petrolsexual like me, but hey, I grok the economics of the biz.
 
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nerdman

pig's gotta fly
#64
My bad. Edited a bit above for clarity.

I'd be pretty surprised if the code base they built for physics didn't have some sort of historical benchmark listing and backup, though ("on such and such a date, this is what changed"). If they had to re-write the entire car physics code from scratch, then yeah, I'd understand.
It might. That doesn't mean that old code is compatible with the new code.
 

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
#65
Just buy this on PC if you want it that bad.... Though, on PC, badass racing games like project cars are a dime a dozen.... On Wii U this game would have stood out.... as it stands now, it's just another racing game that I will probably never play....

I say good ridence.... I hope it fails....
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
#66
Just buy this on PC if you want it that bad.... Though, on PC, badass racing games like project cars are a dime a dozen.... On Wii U this game would have stood out.... as it stands now, it's just another racing game that I will probably never play....

I say good ridence.... I hope it fails....
For the most part I very much agree with this.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#67
It might. That doesn't mean that old code is compatible with the new code.
Sure, but the code running on Wii U has to be a bit different, anyways. It's running on a different CPU (RISC/Espresso versus CISC/Jag) with fewer cores. It was always going to need tuning (and if there was a great looking version running on Wii U separate from the PS4/One build, then release that old build). Then again, I suppose I'm still taken aback by the "it's the tire physics" thing. If your tire physics are what's choking the CPU...well, I dunno. I'll leave it to those more technically inclined than me.
Just buy this on PC if you want it that bad.... Though, on PC, badass racing games like project cars are a dime a dozen.... On Wii U this game would have stood out.... as it stands now, it's just another racing game that I will probably never play....

I say good ridence.... I hope it fails....
I don't hope it fails (SMS proved their chops on NFS, and I want as many good devs in business as the industry can support), but I certainly agree with you on the PC thing. Great racing games are only really hard to come by on Wii U. That's why the loss of the only sim that was going to be available for us sucks.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#68
I think the more telling quote is the earlier one:

======================
"OK I'll come clean. At the moment we're running at about 23FPS [at 720p] on the WiiU.

We're awaiting/hoping for more of a hardware announcement at E3...

...Honestly, unless we really cut the looks back I think we're looking to Nintendo's next console.
...I suppose if they don't announce something at E3 or soon after we will have a go at it."
======================

Good grief.

I'm sure these fellows and ladies are fantastic developers and passionate about their work, but this is example A-Z of why it's so difficult to trust a dev interview pre-launch. You can't go from saying "it looks phenomenal"....to...."well, it's not running at an acceptable framerate, so we're either cutting way back or waiting for new hardware."

Seriously, guys. There's hype and then there's dishonesty. Don't say the game looks "phenomenal" and the hardware is "quite good" to saying the game is probably going into development hell because of hardware challenges.

I'd be fine with them dropping the resolution sub-720p. Put it at 640p or 600p and get it out the door. Most people will seriously not notice some blurriness after the scaler does its job. Delaying the game longer isn't going to do them any favors. They'll start running up against first-party releases. And as much as I want CARS, if it launches too close to XCX, Splatoon, Devil's Third, Zelda, SMTxFE? Those games come first.

[EDIT: Here is the dev's response on going sub-720p. Aaaaand...I kinda call shenanigans. I'm sorry, but if your tire physics are choking the entire CPU, seriously, what the hell are you doing with those tires?]
They were probably doing fine with the game until they started inserting the more hardcore stuff (i.e. tire physics, 45 cars w/ rain, etc.). It happens in development a lot. Also, it's not shenanigans. The AI calculations in cars are simulated to insane levels, and to do that, you need a good CPU or at least a lot of cores. The Wii U only has 3 cores despite being similar to the Jaguar.

As for lowering the resolution, I've been saying this a lot: lowering the resolution doesn't take off CPU load. It's why, for example, Final Fantasy XIV Online performs similarly on PS4 in the 720p and 1080p modes. It's why Ubisoft's response to the Assassin's Creed: Unity 900p fiasco was bullshit when they said it was due to the game being CPU bound.

To be honest, I don't even know why anyone would get it on Wii U considering it was gonna be capped at 30 FPS. I said it on IGN, but framerate importance becomes amplified in racing sims the same way it does in character action games.
 
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GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#69
Just buy this on PC if you want it that bad.... Though, on PC, badass racing games like project cars are a dime a dozen.... On Wii U this game would have stood out.... as it stands now, it's just another racing game that I will probably never play....

I say good ridence.... I hope it fails....
Good news, it's doing anything but failing! Content and graphics wise, it's anything but "another racing game", it's way ahead to the point where Turn 10 needs to seriously look into it for Forza 6. It also stands out on PS4 since it's the only 60 FPS racer on the system as of now.
 

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
#70
Good news, it's doing anything but failing! Content and graphics wise, it's anything but "another racing game", it's way ahead to the point where Turn 10 needs to seriously look into it for Forza 6. It also stands out on PS4 since it's the only 60 FPS racer on the system as of now.
Until the new Gran Turismo I imagine.... Which I doubt anyone will be skipping in favor of Project Cars....
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#71
Until the new Gran Turismo I imagine.... Which I doubt anyone will be skipping in favor of Project Cars....
In my opinion, Project C.A.R.S. set a new standard for handling content, and yes, graphics. Forza's pre-baked lights, lack of cars and tracks in comparison, microtransactions, and lack of night time and weather isn't going to cut it. That said, I don't think Polyphony is gonna slack off in terms of pushing the PS4 considering how hard they pushed the PS3 (GT6 ran at 1440x1080p with MLAA and is the only PS3 game to use adaptive tessellation; it also had real time lighting). I can see them looking at Project C.A.R.S. and optimizing to outdo it visually while still keeping 60 FPS as the target. That said, they need to unfuck the AI as soon as possible. Forza Horizon 2 set a new standard there.

Edit: Forza 6 is pretty fucking sweet. If they just introduced a day/night cycle, dynamic rain that features accumulation, and real time lighting, they'd be set.
 
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EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#72
"45 cars with rain"? For heaven's sake, I really hope "45 cars with rain" isn't what is holding them back. Cut the field to 30 and you've freed up CPU usage by ditching something most people aren't gonna really care too much about. If the tire physics for 45 cars is too much, use less. They even talked specifically about tailoring the experience for each console:

But I can tell you that we're making all the versions at the same time, so it's not like we're making the PC version and then we port it to consoles afterwards. But obviously, each console has its strengths and weaknesses, so the code team will have to make compromises and work out what suits each platform's strengths better.

Simplified tire physics would certainly count as a compromise. How that would break the game beyond all recognition has yet to be disclosed.

Also, should go without saying, but if they were making all versions at the same time, the Wii U wasn't a "maybe." I wish they'd simply come out and say the return on investment isn't there, and their time is better spent doing PS4/XB1/PC patches and updates.

[And chip performance doesn't happen in a vacuum. There are always corners cut to hit a target. You're utilizing CPU everytime you call up an API to tell the GPU what to render; reduce and simplify what the GPU needs to be told to render, free up CPU. OTOH, do some crude GPU compute to help the CPU, and lose GPU performance. No free computational lunch. After a generation with many sub-HD games, I'm not surprised in the slightest to see devs clawing their way to eek out what they can. These are the tradeoffs consoles live with, and we'll probably see more sub-1080p, sub-60 fps games because of it.]
Until the new Gran Turismo I imagine.... Which I doubt anyone will be skipping in favor of Project Cars....
Well sure, but GT has a built-in audience and prestige. It's as close to royalty as sims come.

Plus, CARS was weird in that they wanted to be a "AAA" production bankrolled through working as much as they could as an indie.
 
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