Should NX run Windows 10?

[Super Virtual Boy Show]

Here's a crazy question for everyone: Should NX use some version of Windows 10 as its operating system?

The obvious knee-jerk response is no, of course not. However, there could be some great benefits to Nintendo making use of a Windows OS on their next platform, the biggest of which being the ease with which third-party developers could port games to the NX from PC and/or Xbox One.

There are some obvious concerns too: Would Microsoft license the OS to Nintendo at a reasonable rate? Would Nintendo/Microsoft be able to optimize the OS to meet the needs and/or architecture of the NX? Would Nintendo fans be put off by such a partnership? All of this is assuming Nintendo would even be willing to consider the idea themselves.

I know almost nothing about programing and less than nothing about business, but I think this idea has some great potential. Of course, I can't take any credit for it, since it wasn't my idea at all, and I probably haven't even done it justice.

If you want more thorough explanation, try watching this video by ZyroXZ2:

If you have time, please try voting in the poll so we can get a sense of how the community feels about this idea.

 

[mattavelle1]

Hell naw! I wish I could elaborate more but hell naw should state plenty.

 

[FriedShoes]

check it out, Zyro!
I know they wont, but whether they should I'm not sure. I think Windows 10 is a trash environment, but if it indeed does provide 3rd parties an easier way to port, by all means. I dont think thats the case though, since PS4 doesnt run 10 and they get ports just fine.

 

[Koenig]

For a multitude of reasons, No.

 

[Super Virtual Boy Show]

check it out, Zyro!
I know they wont, but whether they should I'm not sure. I think Windows 10 is a trash environment, but if it indeed does provide 3rd parties an easier way to port, by all means. I dont think thats the case though, since PS4 doesnt run 10 and they get ports just fine.

I think the best way to get more ports is by having the largest install base, regardless of OS or architecture. I think the Wii proved that fairly well, and as you mentioned the PS4 is proving again. However, simply having a lot of ports doesn't necessarily mean a console is easy to port to. Correlation does not always equal causation.

 

[Odo]

Nope. Even if that plan works out, still it'd be wrong way to get 3rd party.

 

[Super Virtual Boy Show]

Nope. Even if that plan works out, still it'd be wrong way to get 3rd party.

That's an interesting point. What would you say are the wrong ways to get third-party support and what would you say are the right ways to get third-party support?

 

[EvilTw1n]

The obvious knee-jerk response is no, of course not. However, there could be some great benefits to Nintendo making use of a Windows OS on their next platform, the biggest of which being the ease with which third-party developers could port games to the NX from PC and/or Xbox One.

Windows Phone was supposed to be easy for developers; they all undoubtedly had Windows PCs and WP was supposed to be slick and easy to toss apps on. But that didn't happen. All of the money is on iOS and Android. It doesn't matter how easy something is to develop for if the money is elsewhere.

If you're a third party making home console videogames and you're considering Nintendo? The money is elsewhere.

Presently, at least. But it'd take a lot more to change the environment than Win10 on a Nintendo device.

 

[Super Virtual Boy Show]

Windows Phone was supposed to be easy for developers; they all undoubtedly had Windows PCs and WP was supposed to be slick and easy to toss apps on. But that didn't happen. All of the money is on iOS and Android. It doesn't matter how easy something is to develop for if the money is elsewhere.

If you're a third party making home console videogames and you're considering Nintendo? The money is elsewhere.

Presently, at least. But it'd take a lot more to change the environment than Win10 on a Nintendo device.

You're right. I agree that ease of development/porting isn't the main factor in driving third-party support. I think the main factor in third-party support is the size of the install base — the more units sold the more likely the third-party support.

I'm glad you mentioned Windows phone too. While not directly analogous, that's still a good example that I hadn't even considered.

 

[Odo]

That's an interesting point. What would you say are the wrong ways to get third-party support and what would you say are the right ways to get third-party support?

Yes, there are many ways to do all sorts of things. Right ways and wrong ways.

 

[mattavelle1]

Yes, there are many ways to do all sorts of things. Right ways and wrong ways.

I was looking forward to your views on the question aswell just because it could be a different perspective.

 

[theMightyME]

no, if anything it should be a linux variant...

linux runs better, and is 100% free for them to use... it is also the base of FAR more operating systems than windows...

Mac OS, iOS, Android, Chrome, Steam OS, and countless varieties of Linux itself are all linux variants... hell, I think the ps3 and ps4 were both linux based as well... so pretty much every advantage you state (citing the xbone) would transfer over to linux as well.... except linux holds the advantage by being free, infinitely salable (far far less of a resource hog), and just far better in terms of code itself...

all of this being said.. I really do not care if the NX has 3rd party parity on multiplats, and having 3rd party parity will not help it IMO... Nintendo needs exclusives, they are late to the party so nobody is going to buy the system for CoD or Mass Effect.... not that they would have if the NX released alongside the xbone and ps4 anyways.... just that it is even less reasonable now....

I think Nintendo should use android as a base... but not full on android... rather, a heavily modified version ala Amazon's fire devices... my reasoning has nothing to do with porting android games btw... though that could also be a benefit.... my reasoning is that android has great communication coding.... it is really really really good at many of the thigns Nintendo ahs been historically bad at... like networking

nintendo can base on android and pay google NOTHING, but reep all of the benefits of great networking code

 

[theMightyME]

That's an interesting point. What would you say are the wrong ways to get third-party support and what would you say are the right ways to get third-party support?

bellow I defined what I consider the arithmetic of 3rd party support ... but here lets look at those through the lens of Nintendo
install base, and attach rate can't really be argued at this point so lets skip them for now
Ease of Development - Nintendo has been doing this since the Gamecube, they did NOTHINGF wrong on this front with the Wii U
Demographics - This is Nintendo's biggest struggle... CoD will never sell as well on a Nintendo system as it would on a sony or MS system, this is due to the demographics of the core owners of these devices.... even if the NX has the largest install base, consumers wont think about as their go to CoD box.
Publisher faith - this is all but eroded, in the west, with the exception of ubisoft and indy devs.... this is why I think Nintendo should double down on Japan and exclusives.the eye of Sonyn is on the west... time to pouch the big Japanese franchsies... the ones that work to nintendo's demographics atleast
Hardware compatibility - This is argued over a lot, if the other factors were in Nintendo's favor (they are not) then this would be the last hold out... personaly I think nintendo should give up on this one as supporting it is costly and goes outside of Nintendo's business methodology, it also isn't a sound business strategy for a company that gets the vast majority of their income from only 1 field.

You're right. I agree that ease of development/porting isn't the main factor in driving third-party support. I think the main factor in third-party support is the size of the install base — the more units sold the more likely the third-party support.

I'm glad you mentioned Windows phone too. While not directly analogous, that's still a good example that I hadn't even considered.

I would say install base is PART of the equation but doesn't stand alone... the wii proved that.... I would say the ideal arithmetic is some combination of these factors: Install base, Attach rate, EXPECTED install base and attach rate (remember development is not instantaneous), Ease of development (as this eventually becomes cost of development), demographics, publisher faith in the product, compatibility with other existing HARDWARE (software is being coded closer and closer to the metal, so OS is mattering less and less in this way)

-----------

so the answer.... fuck multiplats, be the exclusives box

 

[MANGANian]

If it gets Nintendo to partner with Microsoft, then absolutely. Otherwise, I'm not fond of the idea unless the OS is custom-built with lots of input design and aesthetics from Nintendo, and Microsoft helps support the system.

 

[Odo]

I was looking forward to your views on the question aswell just because it could be a different perspective.

I'm among those who believe that Nintendo needs third party for keeping itself on business since I don't believe Mario and Co will keep Nintendo profitable (as it didn't for Wii U) in the long term, but this is not news, right.

Although third party would be great for Nintendo in my opinion, I don't believe that just changing the OS is the right solution, because:

1) If Nintendo just install Windows 10 on their devices, they'd be delivering an OS that didn't make windows phones better nor Xbox. So why it would make Nintendo better? Making apps for Windows 10 means that your app will run on windows phones, xbox and pcs, but devs don't give a damm, Money is on ios/android.

2) OS is not everything when you're trying to deploy an app. You can't port an app just because it runs certain OS. Wii U running Win 10 wouldn't make it getting third party content, because it's still a deprecated hardware for today's console games. Win 10 running on 3DS wouldn't make any difference, since it doesn't help windows phones and 3DS is doing all right. The same logic applies for NX. Nintendo will not change their strategy and deliver a scorpio-like console to put win 10 on it and make it a PC. Unless it's the new Nintendo strategy in the first place.

3) Playstation has its own OS and it's got all games. You don't need to use a third party OS to make your console get all the games. OS is very crucial for mobile, because you develop an app for that OS. The OS provides you tons of tools to make development easier for everyone, including inexperienced coders. That's not the same about games and consoles. Games aren't mobile apps. Games are high profile software that are much more connected to the hardware and game frameworks/engines than the OS. A console OS is more a user stuff tool than developer's.

4) Nintendo will have to pay for the Win 10 licenses or the users will have to or Nintendo would have to make a deal with Microsoft to make it cheaper or to create a Win 10 version for Nintendo. This compromise a lot of the Nintendo strategy and the way of doing business. It could work, but it would be another Nintendo and not the Nintendo we know today. Meaning, installing Win 10 on Nintendo devices is big change of business strategy. Nintendo requires total control of its OS/hardware. So going this way with a deal with Microsoft is just a wrong way to achieve third party, since it's too risky, costly and don't fix other problems (read 1, 2 and 3).

5) One of the things that makes Nintendo devices so secure is the fact that Nintendo doesn't outsource its OS. It's hard to unlock Nintendo devices ans pirate their content. Win 10 would make Nintendo console very unsafe for Nintendo standards.

6) Windows is not a good OS. The idea of Windows 10 running everywhere sounded brilliant two years ago, but now, it seems to be a big mistake. Microsoft would be better off if their windows phones run Android. Developers are not translating their android/ios apps for Windows 10 like they predicted, because in the end it doesn't make sense. Win 10 is fine on PCs, but lots of people (including me) regretted upgrading. Microsoft itself doesn't believe that Win 10 will be installed in billions of machines any more. Win 10 is now just a new cheap and basic PC OS like it has always been. So asking why Nintendo doesn't run Win 10 is the same as asking why Nintendo doesn't run Win 7.

7) Xbox runs Win 10 because it's practical for Microsoft, because that thing is almost a PC. Plus, releasing a Xbox game on Xbox and Win 10 isn't the same as releasing the game everywhere. Microsoft only does that because the game will be also on Win 10 Store so they make money there too. It makes total sense for them to release a game on Xbox and windows store, but it doesn't mean that Win 10 is now a universal OS that can make any hardware in the world greater and easier to get premium content. It doesn't make sense to other hardware manufacturers to just install Win 10 to get all the games.

8) There are many other ways to make your console getting third parties. Nintendo doesn't get them because it doesn't want them. Going through all the 7 points that I wrote and install Win 10 believing that it would make Nintendo get third party content is insane. It might work, but even if it works, that'd be wrong and totally unnecessary.

 

[Super Virtual Boy Show]

no, if anything it should be a linux variant...

linux runs better, and is 100% free for them to use... it is also the base of FAR more operating systems than windows...

Mac OS, iOS, Android, Chrome, Steam OS, and countless varieties of Linux itself are all linux variants... hell, I think the ps3 and ps4 were both linux based as well... so pretty much every advantage you state (citing the xbone) would transfer over to linux as well.... except linux holds the advantage by being free, infinitely salable (far far less of a resource hog), and just far better in terms of code itself...

This is a great point not only because so many different devices run Linux, but because many (though not all) of the games being released for Windows (especially those being released through Steam) also seem to be compatible with Linux.
Of course, you're also right that Linux is very customizable and free to use, so in that regard it greatly trumps Windows 10.

I would say install base is PART of the equation but doesn't stand alone... the wii proved that.... I would say the ideal arithmetic is some combination of these factors: Install base, Attach rate, EXPECTED install base and attach rate (remember development is not instantaneous), Ease of development (as this eventually becomes cost of development), demographics, publisher faith in the product, compatibility with other existing HARDWARE (software is being coded closer and closer to the metal, so OS is mattering less and less in this way)

This is definitely a more thoughtful way of considering the likelihood of third-party support. I think you really hit the nail on the head by including expected install base and expected attach rate.
The lack of marketing and hype surrounding the Wii U seems like it was one of the biggest deterrents for third parties. The worse off the sales forecasts and the less engaged the consumer base, the less likely the third-party support.

I'm among those who believe that Nintendo needs third party for keeping itself on business since I don't believe Mario and Co will keep Nintendo profitable (as it didn't for Wii U) in the long term, but this is not news, right.

Although third party would be great for Nintendo in my opinion, I don't believe that just changing the OS is the right solution, because:

...

5) One of the things that makes Nintendo devices so secure is the fact that Nintendo doesn't outsource its OS. It's hard to unlock Nintendo devices ans pirate their content. Win 10 would make Nintendo console very unsafe for Nintendo standards.

...

Going through all the 7 points that I wrote and install Win 10 believing that it would make Nintendo get third party content is insane. It might work, but even if it works, that'd be wrong and totally unnecessary.

I could be misinterpreting the video, but I don't think the idea of changing the OS was intended to be a one-stop solution for attracting third parties. I don't think the video was suggesting that "just changing the OS" would generate abundant third-party support for Nintendo, but that it would help Nintendo attract third-party support. Try to think of it as one piece of an over-all strategy.
Again, I could be misinterpreting the video, but it feels like you might be polarizing the subject by over-looking the middle ground and maybe taking this bit too seriously by calling anyone insane (though I've never actually had a psych eval).
The video seems as though it was intended as a hypothetical. I doubt that any of us, nor even the presenter of the video would ever expect Nintendo to actually use Windows 10, but it makes for an interesting what if.

All that said, I think your point about security was absolutely spot on! I'm sure Windows has becomes more stable and more secure since the 90s, but that doesn't change the fact that by its very nature Windows is still going to be far more easily hacked than a proprietary OS.
Even when it comes to the dedicated community creating and supporting Homebrew, Nintendo seems to be very quick in patching/preventing exploits in their systems, which (as you mention) would likely be difficult to accomplish as efficiently while running Windows 10.

Thanks to everyone throwing out constructive criticisms. It's not even my idea, but I'm really enjoying seeing what everyone thinks of it. So far it sounds like we're slowly coming to the conclusion that (hypothetically) Nintendo should make use of proprietary OS which is heavily Linux based and capable of running Linux compatible titles (or at least that's what I'm getting from it).

 

[Odo]

Try to think of it as one piece of an over-all strategy.

No over-all strategy need to add a "changing to Win 10" to work for third-parties.

Again, I could be misinterpreting the video, but it feels like you might be polarizing the subject by over-looking the middle ground and maybe taking this bit too seriously by calling anyone insane (though I've never actually had a psych eval).

I'm not taking this thread really serious. My reply to the thread was sort of "nope, it's wrong", but @mattavelle1 said that he'd like to read my thoughts. I wrote that for him.

Apologies if you got that I called you insane, it's just a misunderstanding. I'm not polarising anything and I'm not calling anyone insane. The idea itself is insane and if Nintendo ever decided to do that, I'd call them insane. In fact I call Nintendo owners insane all the time since I've been disagreeing with them often. Not that I really believe that Kimishima has any mental issues, it's just my way to express deep disbelief (AKA figurative language).

 

[Super Virtual Boy Show]

No over-all strategy need to add a "changing to Win 10" to work for third-parties.



I'm not taking this thread really serious. My reply to the thread was sort of "nope, it's wrong", but @mattavelle1 said that he'd like to read my thoughts. I wrote that for him.

Apologies if you got that I called you insane, it's just a misunderstanding. I'm not polarising anything and I'm not calling anyone insane. The idea itself is insane and if Nintendo ever decided to do that, I'd call them insane. In fact I call Nintendo owners insane all the time since I've been disagreeing with them often. Not that I really believe that Kimishima has any mental issues, it's just my way to express deep disbelief (AKA figurative language).

My bad. I interpreted what you wrote much too literally. Sorry about that. I agree that (IMHO) no strategy should need include a Nintendo console running Windows 10, but it was really cool to see what everyone thought of the idea.

Personally, I don't think Nintendo is likely to create such a partnership with their rivals because Nintendo has such a tendency to do their own thing which is entirely theirs and to be just that little bit different — and most of the time, I love them for it.

... Also, I'd hate for the NX to be the next Nintendo Playstation leading to the next Phillips CD-i, ha ha ha!

 

[Odo]

My bad. I interpreted what you wrote much too literally. Sorry about that. I agree that (IMHO) no strategy should need include a Nintendo console running Windows 10, but it was really cool to see what everyone thought of the idea.

Personally, I don't think Nintendo is likely to create such a partnership with their rivals because Nintendo has such a tendency to do their own thing which is entirely theirs and to be just that little bit different — and most of the time, I love them for it.

... Also, I'd hate for the NX to be the next Nintendo Playstation leading to the next Phillips CD-i, ha ha ha!

I love to think how everything would've been different if Nintendo Playstation had came out.