Star Fox Zero: Black & White....

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
#1


One last time....

I thought we would take one last look at Star Fox Zero before we all get to play it in terms of reviews and what is being said about the game....

I read somewhere that Star Fox Zero getting a better Metacrtic rating than Star Fox Assualt was like, good for Nintendo fans or something....

http://nintendoenthusiast.com/news/star-fox-zero-has-surpassed-star-fox-assaults-review-scores/

But is this the low bar Nintendo fans should be setting their sights on in terms of quality...?

Is this comparison Nintendo fans trying to make themselves feel better about how good Star Fox Zero really is compared to past games...?

That's comparing an average Gamecube game to what seems to be an average Wii U game, at least if most of these reviews are to be trusted....

The Wii U Star Fox is just a little bit less average than the last Gamecube Star Fox....

Somehow this doesn't make me feel any better as a Nintendo fan....

And anyone heralding this as some sort of victory is, quite frankly, a fucking numbskull....


Reviews....

Let's take a look at two reviews of this game....

To give two opposite perspectives, I've chosen the Nintendo Enthusiast Review by Jason Lepine, which give the game a pretty good review, vs the Polygon review by Arthur Gies, which is the worst I could find....

http://nintendoenthusiast.com/review/star-fox-zero-review-for-wii-u/

http://www.polygon.com/2016/4/20/11466308/not-a-review-star-fox-zero

These two opinions about this new Star Fox couldn't be more different....

Let's start with the openers....


Jason said....

"What is a Star Fox game? Looking back on the franchise, there’s only 5 titles prior to Star Fox Zero and they all play quite differently: from the classic Star Fox 64, to the land based Star Fox Adventures, to the land/space hybrid that is Star Fox: Assault. While the franchise seems to suffer from a bit of an identity crisis, to me Star Fox at its core is simply about piloting an Arwing and taking down enemies while pulling off some tight maneuvers. By that definition I can say without a doubt that Star Fox Zero is the best in the franchise, so if you’re a Star Fox fan this is a game for you, if you’re not then read on as we dissect the experience that is Star Fox Zero."


And now Arthur....

"Star Fox Zero is something of a reimagining/reboot of the series, as it takes story elements from the original SNES game and mixes it with events and ideas from each subsequent title — including a few bits that seem directly borrowed from the unreleased Star Fox 2. It stars the titular pilot, Fox McCloud, and his animal friends as they battle the evil Andross and his efforts to take over the galaxy.

There are things that I don't hate about Star Fox Zero. It's not a terrible-looking game, and it evokes the simplified, polygonal origins of the series in a way that makes sense. It's clear and easy to read, and the talking heads that have always featured prominently in previous games have been lovingly recreated in the most anachronistic way by new series stewards PlatinumGames — Platinum even included the badly digitized "good luck" sound bite from the original game before each mission begins. In the beginning, it's charming in its own way."


So clearly, one of these guys is a fan of the franchise, while the other is attempting to give the game a fair chance, even if he doesn't really seem to be a huge fan of games about flying foxes....

But one thing about Jason's opener, it sounds like a closer, basically giving the game a pass before you are even done with the first paragraph, assuming that the reader doesn't plan to even read the rest of his review....

Not only that, but his definition of what a SF game is, is way off imo....

So far, what I have gathered from these two opening paragraphs is, Nintendo fans will find something to like in SFZ, while everybody else will be a big maybe....

Let's continiue shall we....

Jason said....

"Since its debut Star Fox Zero‘s controls have been the largest point of discussion, so let’s get that out of the way. The game offers a unique control scheme that would be impossible without the architecture of the Wii U. On the TV screen you have the traditional third person view of the Arwing flying through the level, while on the GamePad you have a cockpit view that allows you to look around by using motion controls. Most of the time you’ll be watching the TV screen, focusing on flying your ship and avoiding obstacles while you move the GamePad to shoot at ships. This control scheme isn’t anything new as we’ve seen something similar in Zelda games where you use a joystick to control Epona while using motion controls for Link to shoot enemies with his bow. It’s a very similar feeling that will grow onto you quick. Likewise, we also see this sort of control setup in Splatoon where you move the GamePad around to shoot, hitting the Y button to readjust as needed.

So if we can play on the TV, why even bother looking down at the GamePad, you may wonder? The GamePad offers more precision for your shots, so if you’re taking strafe runs on capital ships it’s a great way to focus on taking out turrets and missile launchers. The new control scheme essentially separates the controls of the lasers from the controls of the ship, and this is a great step forward for the franchise. Previously in say Star Fox or Star Fox 64, if you had to fly up and to the right it would be impossible to aim down and to the left. Well thanks to the new controls you can now do this and not hinder your shooting capabilities. This allows for a much more controlled play style and a more satisfying experience. I absolutely love the new controls. Additionally, it’s sometimes easier to navigate through say a debris field by looking at the GamePad since the Arwing on the TV does block some of your view while the cockpit view does not.

The controls aren’t perfect however, and they do have quite a lengthy learning curve before you master them. After a few hours in I was absolutely frustrated with boss battles as the target-reticle on the TV is removed for a more cinematic experience. On top of that, you have to use the ZL button to lock onto your enemy which locks the viewpoint and makes maneuvering your vehicle very confusing at first. I dreaded boss battles because of this, but now that I’ve settled in with the controls I wouldn’t change a thing. While I’ve come to love this, players shouldn’t feel as though the controls are a barrier to the game, especially after putting some hours in. In fact, I had made it to the final boss and was baffled at how terrible the controls were in that fight. Turns out I just hadn’t learned how to use them properly yet and it was that battle that taught me how to use them through its brilliant design. But again, a player shouldn’t have to make it to the final boss to learn how to play the game properly, so for this I have to dock the game."


And Arthur....

"That charm doesn't last, however. Star Fox Zero feels like every muddled, unsuccessful experiment with the Wii U was stuffed into a single game. By default, aiming in this mostly on-rails shooter is handled via motion controls, though unlike in some other Wii U titles, you can't use a Wii Remote and Nunchuk peripheral. This means aiming with the GamePad, which would be bad enough on its own. But there are also extended, often arbitrary seeming sequences where camera control on your television is taken away, locking the view to a fixed position, at which point Star Fox Zero forces you to use the screen on the GamePad to play the game from a constricted "cockpit view."

While in cockpit view, you'll still need to fly your Arwing like normal, which requires both analog sticks on the GamePad. In effect, Star Fox Zero often wants you to manage the equivalent of three analog sticks to play the game, which is ridiculous — the game isn't doing anything other space combat games haven't achieved using fewer inputs, and more effectively than Platinum manages here to boot.

Star Fox Zero suggests that you can disable motion controls, but that isn't actually the case. They can be disabled during default Arwing combat, but there are numerous points where motion controls are the only available aiming option. This includes during ground-based segments using the walker, helicopter or tank vehicles. And to add insult to injury, even when some motion controls are disabled, your in-game companions will drone on and on about using them for greater accuracy.

Did I mention that some mission-critical audio is only available through the GamePad's speakers?"


These two opinions about the new control scheme in SFZ couldn't be more different....

While it sounds like even though for most of the game, Jason didn't understand how the controls worked, he still embraced the new control scheme....

He mentioned docking the game for not teaching him how to truly play it until the very end boss battle....

I don't know about you guys, but that sounds like terrible design all around....

What kind of fucking game waits until the very end to teach you the nuances of its controls...?

For that matter, it sounds like the only Boss that uses this feature well enough for it even to be noticed is the very last one....

So they built the game around this new control scheme, but only implinted it well enough in one boss fight for it to make you understand how to use this new feature well...?

And it was the last boss to boot...?

smh....
 
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TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
#2
The GYRO is a LIE....

Meanwhile, we have a very good point that is completely ignored in Jason's review, about the fact that the new cockpit gamepad controls can in fact not be completely removed from the experience, and in fact are forced upon the player in multiple sections of the game....

For a three hour game, I would say that is a significant detail to leave out of your review, especially considering how much fans have been crying fowl over wanting the option to turn the gamepad stuff off completely....

AND WHAT ABOUT NINTENDO BASICALLY LYING TO FANS ABOUT BEING ABLE TO TURN IT OFF AND PLAY IT OLD SCHOOL WITHOUT THE MOTION CONTROLS...?

Apparently that is not the case, even if you can turn it off for some of the game, you can't for all of it.... This was one of the biggest things for me when it came to buying this game....

I was ready to dive right in until I realized I would be forced to use the Gamepad to play this game with Gyroscope aiming....

I think it's a HUGE deciding factor for people that want to play this game, especially old school SF vets like me, who turn their Splatoon Gyros the fuck off just so I can enjoy the damn game....

So Jason talks about the different vehicles and shit, and how their is this huge misconception that SFZ is simply SF64 HD.... I don't care for filler, and I surely know that these were not misconceptions about the game, but simply critisisms about it's very dated look....

So let's jump right to the end shall we....


CLOSING STATEMENTS....

Jason's closer....

"Overall, I loved the experience Star Fox Zero provided. I felt my skills improve every time I ran a new mission and I still get cravings to just go back into the game for the feeling it offers of flying and shooting down enemies. It’s extremely disappointing that there isn’t more content to offer above its 20 levels as the Gameplay is incredibly fun for those who take the time to master it. I truly believe this could have been regarded as one of the Wii Us must-have titles, but unfortunately, the limited content and unintuitive controls hold the game back from its potential. Still Star Fox Zero is a great step forward for the franchise and I hope we’ll see it continue down this path."


And Arthur....

"I've made it through a little more than half of the game, and thus far, Star Fox Zero isn't just a collection of mechanical problems. Levels are extremely simple, lacking any real sense of spectacle or, well, adventure. Combat moves in fits and starts, and levels are very short, often ending just as they find any sense of rhythm or satisfaction.

It's not that Star Fox Zero is hard, really. It's often bizarrely easy, until it suddenly isn't, in part because twitch shooting or action is so dependent on motion control with the GamePad. It is, to be blunt, a miserable experience, and the idea of playing more fills me with the kind of deep, existential dread I can't really justify. The game itself actually seems fairly short, but it has the standard Platinum complement of challenges within each mission, collectibles to find, and more to pad out its length. There's also a co-op mode that allows two players to share control of an Arwing, before, I assume, they commit intense physical violence against each other.

In many ways, Star Fox Zero actually feels like a launch title for the Wii U console, full of half-fleshed-out ideas that don't quite stick. But the Wii U has been out for almost four years now, and I can't help but wonder what happened.

This isn't a review of Star Fox Zero. Save for very rare, extreme circumstances, Polygon reviews require that a game be completed, or at least a good-faith effort be made to complete it.

I am not playing any more Star Fox Zero."


My Closer....

Jason apparently loved it....

While Arthur didn't even want to continue playing to finish this review....

That is very telling for me in that, on Nintendo fan sites, SFZ has seen its best reviews, while the rest haven't been as kind, even if not overly bashing it....

So what we have here is a case of, who is to be believed...?

I've been sitting here contemplating this and imo, listen to Jason's review if you were ready to give SFZ a pass before you even played it....

Cause it sounds like no matter how much the game fought with him on the control side of things, he always blamed himself for the controls not working as they should, rather than the game for not teaching him how they should work in the first place....

For me, Arthurs review is more telling simply because it focuses on a huge factor about the controls in this game....

Something most of these reviews are seemingly, just leaving out....

Or at least not making it a point to explain in detail that yes, you in fact will be using these awful Gyro controls in SFZ, whether you like it or not....

So what do you think...?

Who is right...?

Are they both right...?

Are they both wrong...?

Guess you can find out for yourself as Star Fox Zero releases in NA tomorrow....

Good Luck!

 
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#3
Hey LSB!

Really appreciate you chose my review for comparison. It was quite a challenge to keep my review under 1,500 words as there was just so much I could say about the game. I tried to touch on all the points I felt were important while keeping it brief.

I don't want to defend my review here as it should be able to stand on its own. Ultimately I'm looking forward to hearing what you all think about the game once you get a chance to play it.
 

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
#4
Hey LSB!

Really appreciate you chose my review for comparison. It was quite a challenge to keep my review under 1,500 words as there was just so much I could say about the game. I tried to touch on all the points I felt were important while keeping it brief.

I don't want to defend my review here as it should be able to stand on its own. Ultimately I'm looking forward to hearing what you all think about the game once you get a chance to play it.
I honestly thought it was a good comparison for people to see since you guys saw the game in two completey different ways....

And yes, no need to defend your review, let the people decide for themselves....

There may be a lot of folks that ultimately agree with you....

Hell, after I finally play it, I may be one of them.... Who knows....


 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#5
I first didn't think I'd want to buy this game right now, because I'd be so busy with Dark Souls 3. But I've beaten DS3 twice now and don't really feel like playing it much anymore (for now), and I'm getting really curious about this game.

Hearing bad things about the controls doesn't really faze me, I seem to do well with control schemes that others think are terrible (SF:Assault, Splatoon, Wiimote aiming, etc). But I haven't heard anything about a Hard Mode, and I can't find any info about it. So I'm going to have to wait until others have completed it to find out if there's a Hard Mode that makes it more fun to replay the levels, because otherwise I don't know how I feel about spending $50 on something I'll play for about 10 hours and forget forever.
 

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
#6
I was probably the most hyped person on these boards for a new Star Fox....

But my hype diminished when I found out about the Gyro's as I would much prefer a true , 3D cockpit more, like in SF64....

Then my hype returned when I found out I could turn the Gyro's off....

Now my Hype has all but faded when faced with the fact that now, I have to play this game using this stupid control scheme at least some of the time....

IDK... Maybe I'm just so nostalgic about Star Fox that I'm unwilling to budge on how I enjoy playing it....

Or maybe I'm just not convinced this new control scheme adds anything to the game....

In fact, I'm pretty sure it takes something away from it by causing you to constantly look away from the TV during heated action....

Causing you to miss the visuals on the screen in favor of getting off a shot to left while I'm banking right....

To me, that doesn't sound like a good enough trade off to be forcing this crap on SF fans....

I imagine this will be the part of the game that is make or break for me....
 
#7
I first didn't think I'd want to buy this game right now, because I'd be so busy with Dark Souls 3. But I've beaten DS3 twice now and don't really feel like playing it much anymore (for now), and I'm getting really curious about this game.

Hearing bad things about the controls doesn't really faze me, I seem to do well with control schemes that others think are terrible (SF:Assault, Splatoon, Wiimote aiming, etc). But I haven't heard anything about a Hard Mode, and I can't find any info about it. So I'm going to have to wait until others have completed it to find out if there's a Hard Mode that makes it more fun to replay the levels, because otherwise I don't know how I feel about spending $50 on something I'll play for about 10 hours and forget forever.

Forbes had an interesting write up on Star Fox and the controls

I don't agree with everything but when he quoted someone saying the following, it made sense to me

"Gyro controls worked better in Splatoon because the concept of the game was simpler. The gyro is your aim, the stick moves your feet. It wasn’t intuitive to me, but it was at least workable. In Star Fox Zero, gyro controls are much harder, as gyro aims, one stick turns, one stick brakes and boosts and leans. And the game switches between “on the rails” mode in which these controls function one way and “all-range” mode where you have complete freedom to fly around anywhere, where things get even more complicated with the control scheme. Oh, and there are at four other vehicles in the game besides the normal Arwing, all of which will use these controls differently."


Looks like we have another Kid Icarus Uprising on our hands.
 

BobSilencieux

Well-Known Member
#8
I won't comment on Jason's review, but over the last few weeks, I've been more and more convinced that TNE has been "heavily incentivised" to praise the ever-lovin shit out of Star Fox Zero. Everywhere I look, there has been tons of poorly disguised marketing speak and shameless hype mongering, the likes of which I've never seen on TNE before. Not that I read the front page very often, though.
 

FriedShoes

MLG
Moderator
#9
Anyone who pans gyro controls for aiming should have taken Prince's place.

Sorry, I'm still hurting.
I think Gies is a hack but I am inclined to side with him more on this point, partly because I already wasnt looking forward to SF0, but also because he went a bit more indepth into the control scheme and it really does sound a bit convoluted and complicated. He does seem readily dismissive of the function though, hmm.
I really like the idea of 3 analog sticks though, if this was some other kind of game and that was the full focus it might have worked. I recall old IGN "Wii 2" controller concepts that were 2 Wiimotes, each with an analog stick on them. That sounds awesome to me, but the implementation here sounds more reductive.

I would have to try it for myself to truly know and decide who is correct in this argument but theres no demo.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#10
I've tried to use the gyro in Splatoon several times. And I have decided that I don't like it several times.

I'll probably give SF a shot, but at a later date, hopefully when I've got like a $10 discount at GS or something.
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#11
Well, look on the bright side, because it's a short game, it gives you plenty of opportunities to hone your skills and get better at the controls. At first, I hated the controls of Wonderful 101, but once I got the hang of it and rest of the mechanics, the game was very good as I've mentioned plenty times before.

But Platinum's games have never been about simplistic control schemes really anyway, so I'm not surprised if there's a learning curve with the controls.
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#13
idk, I feel like the gyro aiming might have been a Miyamoto direction.
Well, if you think about it, Nintendo loves to design the mechanics of the game first, and then tack on one of their IPs that fits it the best. Miyamoto likely thought SF was the best fit, and realizing he could not do it alone, he enlisted the help of Platinum games to help finish it.
 

MANGANian

Megalomaniacal Robo-Zombie
#14
The gyro is definitely a Miyamoto thing, and again something I hoped Miyamoto considered not basing the entire game upon. Personally from all the videos and reviews I've read, and I've read every single one I can find, the only one I have an issue with is the one Polygon made. Really and truly, Polygon's isn't a review at all like they said, but more of an impression.

IGN's review was another one I had an issue with, but only a certain sentence made in it.

Like this one:
"However, it takes the retro look a little too far in places, with a lot of plain-looking enemy ships and tall tanks made of simple geometry and dull textures that looks out of place in an otherwise-modern 2016 game. "- Jose Otero- IGN​

I personally thought the retro look was another one of Nintendo's mistakes with Starfox as well, but this line needs every bit of re-working because it sounded like he didn't want to straight up admit the polygonal N64 look felt like a mistake, like he should've. Otherwise every other review, including this one, felt very reasonable.

Starfox Zero is a game I would've bought regardless because I wanted to believe. But actually seeing the gameplay for myself, there's still enough reason for me to add to my checklist. And I do hope to see a sequel happen sometime in the future.
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
#15
I'm not a Star Fox fan.

I usually dislike Platinum games. (Most of things Platinum delivers that people consider genius stuff I consider weird and complicated)

People are saying controls are nuts.

Someone mentioned "Kid Icarus: Uprising".


Well, I'm not going to pay full price on this game at all. I might not even paying half price.

Skipping it right now.
 
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