Star Wars: The Force Awakens / Countdown

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#1
http://www.tickcounter.com/countdown/20151218120100am/w2320/0/Star_Wars:_The_Force_Awakens

I didn't think we'd get another Star Wars, not after George Lucas spent so many hours of his second trilogy on Anakin's teenage angst and the lead-up to Palpatine becoming Emperor. But here we are.



J.J. looks like he's going to cure many of the Lucas-isms that, well, y'know.


So we've got that going for us, at least.

But you know why you're really here. Lightsaber duels. Glorious lightsaber duels.

 
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TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
#3
I'll be taking Brat to see all of them.... And re-watching the rest of the old ones on netflix soon enough....

http://www.wsj.com/articles/disney-...-films-to-netflix-in-latin-america-1442506385

I don't go to movies often....

But Star Wars is one of those experiences I never miss in theaters....

My dad took me to see my first Star Wars movie when I was just a baby.... Like 2....

Empire Strike Back....

He said Yoda scared the living shit out of me....
 
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EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#5
I like Star Wars, but I'm not really that excited for episode 7. I'll see it I'm sure, but I honestly keep forgetting this is a thing that's happening.
I can't help but let the hype get to me. I wasn't even a huge Star Wars fan when I was younger, but the originals grew on me.
I'll be taking Brat to see all of them.... And re-watching the rest of the old ones on netflix soon enough....
Huh, only in Latin America so far. It'd make sense for them to toss all of the others on Netflix for a brief run before Ep. 7 drops.

But yeah, I'll be re-watching all of them. Yes, even the prequels.
And LOL at that George Lucas trailer.
The best part of Lucas selling off to Disney? Hopefully he'll never get a chance to dick with finished products again.
 

NES_Dreams

Active Member
#16
Can't wait for this! Will be the first SW film that I see in the theatre since Jedi!

The trailer alone is much cooler than those 'prequel' messes!

Disclaimer: Not to say that I hate the prequels, I just find them very lackluster. If you trim/edit the fluff, overuse of animation, and general corniness, I'm sure that one good film could be made by editing the three together!
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
#17
Did George Lucas work on it? How's his involvement?

I read he kind gave away Star Wars driver's seat.
 

Ex-Actarus

Well-Known Member
#18
I'm VERY excited for this Star Wars. I'm in the minority as I really enjoyed the last trilogy. That said, Episode 7 really bring back feelings that we haven't felt in 3 decades !

I'm trying to lower my hype to avoid being disappointed, but I can't. That said I'm putting an embargo on ANY Star Wars news now, I don't want any spoilers.
 
#19
I'm pretty much a ticking time bomb when it comes to Star Wars: Force Awakens and Battlefront, waiting to explode with judgement whenever new info about each releases.

I've already accepted that the later of the two cannot be compared to it's predecessor because it'll hurt too much and I'm afraid I might have to discount the former if it tarnishes a classic.
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#20
If any of you feel compelled to watch the prequels...for whatever reason, then might I suggest watching this two-hour cut of all three movies put together? Honestly, it does make the prequels a lot better (better pacing and continuity), but they are still the prequels.

 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#25
Tonight it begins. Going to see some friends, and we'll start re-watching the first six movies.

...well, maybe all six. I think we're all a touch skittish on Phantom Menace. Not like skipping it for Attack of the Clones would be a step up, though. Perhaps starting with Episode IV would be a better idea...
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#26
Tonight it begins. Going to see some friends, and we'll start re-watching the first six movies.

...well, maybe all six. I think we're all a touch skittish on Phantom Menace. Not like skipping it for Attack of the Clones would be a step up, though. Perhaps starting with Episode IV would be a better idea...
Just watch the Phantom edit I posted above, and it'll condense the prequels into one two-hour long movie. Perhaps you're friends will dig it. :mthumb:
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#29
Yesterday, I reserved my ticket for a Sunday morning matinee showing. I figured if I had the time (since I'll be quite busy this weekend), I'll go and see Star Wars as soon as I could.

Unlike the star wars prequels though, I do not have a bad feeling about this.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#34
Won't load here at work, but that's a really cool idea.
I wonder how many developers right now are going like: "why didn't we do that when the Wii was selling truckloads?
"
That we never got our proper lightsaber game is the biggest crime of the Wii years (I'm half temped to go buy The Force Unleashed for Wii, since I never got around to it).

Help us, Suda51. You're our only hope.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#35
http://www.avclub.com/article/star-wars-prequels-dont-deserve-your-hatred-226732

Y'know, they're at least half right. It's not like there wasn't silliness, bad acting, and annoying characters in Ep. IV, V and, VI (I remember always ragging on 3P0 when I was younger). But the flip side of the coin is that Lucas might have been an even worse writer by the time the prequels came out, and it seems like he was hell-bent on not allowing his actors room to act (Natalie Portman and Hayden Christensen obviously aren't bad actors). Harrison Ford and Alec Guinness both ironed out clunky dialog; by the time of the prequels, Lucas didn't have to answer to anyone (and it showed).
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#36
http://www.avclub.com/article/star-wars-prequels-dont-deserve-your-hatred-226732

Y'know, they're at least half right. It's not like there wasn't silliness, bad acting, and annoying characters in Ep. IV, V and, VI (I remember always ragging on 3P0 when I was younger). But the flip side of the coin is that Lucas might have been an even worse writer by the time the prequels came out, and it seems like he was hell-bent on not allowing his actors room to act (Natalie Portman and Hayden Christensen obviously aren't bad actors). Harrison Ford and Alec Guinness both ironed out clunky dialog; by the time of the prequels, Lucas didn't have to answer to anyone (and it showed).
Yeah, you could argue that Lucas back in the day was more restrained, but by the time the prequels came out, most never questioned him because he was George Lucas. It is interesting though when you compare the original theatrical releases of the original trilogy and how it has molded into what it is today with the recent Blu-Ray releases.

Simply put, way too many changes that serve no purpose really. I mean, I get it. It's his movie, and he can do whatever he wants with it. But the Greedo shooting before Han does, all this unnecessary CGI in certain scenes, Vader shouting "Nooooo!" when he kills the Emperor? That latter one REALLY irks me because I get the impression he thought that audiences would not understand. I mean, COME ON! The camera work when Vader's face is looking at Luke. It is clear that he is realizing something. He realizes that there is still good in him (as told by Luke earlier in the movie), and then kills the emperor as a result. That scene needs NO dialogue whatsoever. None at all.

He did however give all the money he was given from Disney for selling the franchise to charity, so I cannot really hate the guy much. He has a good heart when it counts. I just wish he didn't ruin my childhood with all those freaking changes. Here's hoping Disney can launch a fully remastered theatrical edition (which supposedly is still possible despite the original negative being all but destroyed at this point)
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#37
Simply put, way too many changes that serve no purpose really. I mean, I get it. It's his movie, and he can do whatever he wants with it. But the Greedo shooting before Han does, all this unnecessary CGI in certain scenes, Vader shouting "Nooooo!" when he kills the Emperor? That latter one REALLY irks me because I get the impression he thought that audiences would not understand. I mean, COME ON! The camera work when Vader's face is looking at Luke. It is clear that he is realizing something. He realizes that there is still good in him (as told by Luke earlier in the movie), and then kills the emperor as a result. That scene needs NO dialogue whatsoever. None at all.
I didn't know I loved dialogue-less scenes until recently. This Japanese anime movie that's based off a novel did it during a pretty big expository scene. All you know immediately before this scene is that the blonde guy is the blue-haired guy's best friend, and asked him for his blessing to propose to the blonde girl, to which the blue-haired guy told him to be happy.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#38
So who has braved the early crowds to see it? I went last night (alone, which effects my perception of the movie because I hate going to the theater alone).

The good:
-More nostalgia than you can shake a stick at. I regularly got kicked square in the feels. "There's the Millennium Falcon! Han and Chewie! 3PO and Leia! R2!"
-The acting was spectacular across the board.
-The scene between Han and Kylo Ren/Ben is the sort of thing George Lucas sacrificed in the prequels, and it was the real heart of the movie here.
-Fin and Rey are spectacular, without a bum note to be found between them. As new leads, the series will be in really good hands.
-The visual aesthetic was nearly perfect. Like the originals, it's a special effects movie, but not the distracting CG-fest that the prequels were.
-I had already figured out Rey was more Jedi-y than Fin, but his story arc is a really good idea, and its execution is great. Again, it's a matter of heart, and it's earned in the writing. In the prequels, it's a given that we care about Obi Wan and Anakin and Yoda, but that's basically due to to the goodwill of the originals. With Fin, it's all earned. There's more heart to him than nearly anything in the prequels.
-The same goes for Rey. I only single out Fin because we've already seen the "young adult goes on a quest to become a Jedi" story before. Storm Trooper with a heart of gold is new. But just because we've seen Rey's type of story doesn't mean it isn't worth telling, and like Fin, she earns our admiration.
-At first I wasn't sure about Kylo Ren's narrative, but it makes perfect sense, really. We've had six movies of Light Side Force users being tempted by the Dark Side. Flipping that script is clever. Instead of a hero always in danger of giving in to evil, we have a villain in danger of giving in to good. And it's not like with Vader in RotJ. Vader was basically philosophical; he went too far down the Dark road to turn back. Anakin was quasi-tricked and twisted by the Dark Side. Kylo Ren, OTOH, is on a mission to extinguish all good from his heart. He wants to be evil.
-It's fun. This is an event movie, and it doesn't spend two hours on boring politics.

The bad:
-Pacing. The plot felt disjointed, which was to be expected with all that needed to be pulled together, but it's still worth noting. The scene with Han and the rival smugglers was pretty much superfluous and could've been left on the cutting room floor.
-In the first half of the movie, Kylo Ren is revealed to be a pretty damn capable Force user (he's doing some stuff beyond Vader, even). And his temper is truly intimidating. Then he has trouble with Fin and Rey in a duel, because...reasons? You can't build up your villain to showcase that much power and then have him flop so spectacularly. It'd be like if Luke overpowered Vader in Empire. I think there might be a rationale for it, though...
-Some camera work here and there was a bit too "look at me!" The director's job is to make you forget you're viewing through a lens, not to call attention to it.
-There's nostalgia, and then there's being derivative. The plot is basically a rebooted Ep. IV. You get your farmhand in a desert with Force potential, your droid with a message to deliver, your intergalactic bar scene, the good mentor being sacrificed, your Death Star stand-in, etc. This is basically an homage to the original, which isn't a terrible thing, but by the final act you already know what's going to happen.

Moving forward:
-I had guessed that Luke was Kylo Ren's master (who else would train him?), but I'm really glad that the whole "Luke might have gone to the Dark Side" angle wasn't taken. Better for Ben to be a former pupil, echoing Obi Wan losing Anakin rather than Luke becoming like his father. Luke communing with Obi Wan about their shared failures seems like something that should happen in the next movie.
-It doesn't make sense for Rey to have all of this Force power without training. It seems pretty obvious that she is either Luke's daughter, or was Luke's padawan before Ben's betrayal. The lightsaber duel makes little sense until you remember how adept she was at defending herself earlier in the movie.
-It's possible that Kylo Ren was just rusty at lightsaber combat. It's not like there were many Jedi for him to fight in this movie.
-I really hope they've thought Snoke out, because in this movie, he seems to sorta be there for no other reason than to be vaguely evil. Kylo Ren could be downright frightening with that temper, but Snoke seemed boring.
-It's kinda unclear if Fin is Force sensitive. He's got decent aim. He had some facility with a lightsaber, but that's because he was trained in melee combat as a Storm Trooper. It'll be really interesting to see what they do with him. He could either be Chewie's new compatriot, or train with Luke.
-Leia will be crucial in the next movie. If the new Senate was fried by the Star Killer, she's probably the biggest authority figure left.

More after the second viewing. Perhaps I'll be a bit more charitable seeing it with friends next time.
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#39
@EvilTw1n Couple of things from your "bad" section:

With regards to Ren not fending off Rey or Finn during the lightsaber battle, it was clear from the beginning that Kylo is not like Vader. If nothing else, he's a poser, trying to become like Vader. He's a worshipper, and Snoke basically took him onto that route of going to the dark side. If he wants to become a Sith Lord, he is not there just yet. I don't doubt he'll likely make it there by EP8, possibly 9. Also, and I noticed a lot of people never mentioning this, Ren was shot by Chewie by his blaster bow, which if you saw from earlier has tremendous power behind it (killed three stormtroopers earlier, and Han took a serious liking to it). Kylo Ren was wounded before the duel even started, and he was constantly holding himself because of getting shot by Chewie.

It was clear early on that Kylo Ren has some emotional issues as well, trying to deal with coping to the dark side. He loses his temper very quickly (as you saw with him sabering up the controls). Also, he wears a mask not because of some injury like Vader, he's doing it more to be more like Vader was. And the fact he took off his Mask showed how much of a poser he really was. He whines and gets angry a lot, and when Rey was able to resist his Force mind, and the exact opposite happened, that didn't settle so well. He was so wrapped up in emotion and overconfidence because he can use the force in clever ways (such as stopping a blaster bolt which I thought was pretty cool). He has some fancy stuff, but when it comes to actual fighting, he falls short.

It is also possible that because Rey knows the ways of the force (and didn't ven realize it), she had a better ability to read Kylo Ren's moves before he could, despite her lack of training. But also, keep in mind that she would use that staff of hers a lot, so switching from a staff to a lightsaber doesn't exactly require completely different skills. And Finn was/is a stormtrooper, so he would have melee combat abilities (as evidenced from the duel he had with that other stormtrooper with that melee weapon. Finn likely has experience with that exact weapon, so using a lightsaber would not be complete foreign).

And one last thing: JJ Abrams intentionally shot the lightsaber battle the way he did (without much flashiness for example) because they were both inexperienced, so everything in my mind felt more real and brutal (some of the choreography was also done by those two guys from The Raid, as I noticed during the credits) . I don't for a second feel it is impossible for a Jedi with some experience using a lightsaber having difficulty fending off someone who has never used one, but also has force abilities. Ren clearly was not in his right mind, and he was wounded from the start. In EP3 during the climatic duel, Vader is clearly more powerful than Obi-Wan, and is the better Jedi, but he was so wrapped up emotion and rage that he was ultimately his downfall in the battle and why he lost.

Just my thoughts... :mthumb:
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#40
@Shoulder - To the spoiler tags we go!
Couple of things from your "bad" section:

With regards to Ren not fending off Rey or Finn during the lightsaber battle, it was clear from the beginning that Kylo is not like Vader. If nothing else, he's a poser, trying to become like Vader. He's a worshipper, and Snoke basically took him onto that route of going to the dark side. If he wants to become a Sith Lord, he is not there just yet. I don't doubt he'll likely make it there by EP8, possibly 9. Also, and I noticed a lot of people never mentioning this, Ren was shot by Chewie by his blaster bow, which if you saw from earlier has tremendous power behind it (killed three stormtroopers earlier, and Han took a serious liking to it). Kylo Ren was wounded before the duel even started, and he was constantly holding himself because of getting shot by Chewie.

It was clear early on that Kylo Ren has some emotional issues as well, trying to deal with coping to the dark side. He loses his temper very quickly (as you saw with him sabering up the controls). Also, he wears a mask not because of some injury like Vader, he's doing it more to be more like Vader was. And the fact he took off his Mask showed how much of a poser he really was. He whines and gets angry a lot, and when Rey was able to resist his Force mind, and the exact opposite happened, that didn't settle so well. He was so wrapped up in emotion and overconfidence because he can use the force in clever ways (such as stopping a blaster bolt which I thought was pretty cool). He has some fancy stuff, but when it comes to actual fighting, he falls short.
Kylo/Ben is definitely not like Vader, but they show him doing some fancy Force stuff that was even beyond Vader (the blaster freezing when he's not even looking, the Force torture and plucking out information from Poe, Force fainting on command, not just choking but full-on controlled telekinesis movement with it, etc.). And they showed him being pretty adept with his crossguard lightsaber before, deflecting Rey's blaster fire with ease. Sure, Chewie shot him, but that's another weird directorial choice - dude has no problem deflecting blaster fire except then. And even if injured, it just doesn't seem like a dude that adept at those Force powers should have trouble with a guy who was basically a janitor Storm Trooper.

He definitely has a whining streak, but I think the anger is supposed to make him somewhat unpredictable. Vader was very calm and collected. You never know when Ren is going to go Supernova. That's why his intro was so effective, and why it fails to match the character later revealed.

All IMO, of course.
It is also possible that because Rey knows the ways of the force (and didn't ven realize it), she had a better ability to read Kylo Ren's moves before he could, despite her lack of training. But also, keep in mind that she would use that staff of hers a lot, so switching from a staff to a lightsaber doesn't exactly require completely different skills. And Finn was/is a stormtrooper, so he would have melee combat abilities (as evidenced from the duel he had with that other stormtrooper with that melee weapon. Finn likely has experience with that exact weapon, so using a lightsaber would not be complete foreign).
Finn makes some sense, but as mentioned above, I still don't think Ren should have too much trouble with what was basically a garden variety Storm Trooper. Rey is a little different; she's quite handy with that staff early on. I think they'll explain her skills in the next one - that she was one of Luke's apprentices, perhaps.
And one last thing: JJ Abrams intentionally shot the lightsaber battle the way he did (without much flashiness for example) because they were both inexperienced, so everything in my mind felt more real and brutal (some of the choreography was also done by those two guys from The Raid, as I noticed during the credits) . I don't for a second feel it is impossible for a Jedi with some experience using a lightsaber having difficulty fending off someone who has never used one, but also has force abilities. Ren clearly was not in his right mind, and he was wounded from the start. In EP3 during the climatic duel, Vader is clearly more powerful than Obi-Wan, and is the better Jedi, but he was so wrapped up emotion and rage that he was ultimately his downfall in the battle and why he lost.

Just my thoughts... :mthumb:
Vader's potential was greater than Obi-Wan, certainly. But there's a reason Obi-Wan was the Master Jedi and Anakin was not. It's gone over somewhere in EU stuff about Obi-Wan being the master of Soresu (not just a master, the master of Form III). Even if it's not entirely canon, it works in Ep. III. Obi-Wan uses a very defensive style, wears Anakin out, then takes the high ground. He out-thought his pupil there, and used years of his experience as a Master.

But in TFA, I think it might end up making more sense, if the hunch on Rey is right.
All IMO, of course. I can't wait to go see it again. I think I'll be a bit more charitable about it with another viewing or two.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#41
The Kylo Ren and Rey scene didn't bother me because of Ren seeming weak. Being distraught at having killed his father, he was then unable to react to
Chewie's shot, compounding the problem. But it did bother me how strong Rey was. Even if she was fighting off bandits back in Jakku, that's no preparation for combat against someone adept in the use of the force. It wouldn't be preparation for fighting anyone that can fight back, period. I understood Rey was meant to become stronger when she understood the force, but that was so hamfisted I just could not believe she could be half decent at fighting. Maybe if she had fought Captain Phasma with the force and won I would believe her strength made sense.

At any rate, right now she makes for a terribly boring character. She's a perfect young Mary Sue who never screws up and can win in a fair fight against one of the strongest men in the galaxy. She can pilot, can fix complex electronics, and she can fight excellently. At this rate, in the sequels she'll have pretty much everything except character development. But I subscribe to my brother's theory, which says that she's actually being played up to be this infallible badass just so she can get knocked down later. It's not hard for me to believe that, as otherwise Kylo Ren will be the only one with a great character arc in front of him, and it would be unbalanced for this to not be the case with Rey as well.

Anyway, excellently made movie otherwise, but it does suck that it's basically a remake of A New Hope.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#42
The Kylo Ren and Rey scene didn't bother me because of Ren seeming weak. Being distraught at having killed his father, he was then unable to react to Chewie's shot, compounding the problem. But it did bother me how strong Rey was. Even if she was fighting off bandits back in Jakku, that's no preparation for combat against someone adept in the use of the force. It wouldn't be preparation for fighting anyone that can fight back, period. I understood Rey was meant to become stronger when she understood the force, but that was so hamfisted I just could not believe she could be half decent at fighting. Maybe if she had fought Captain Phasma with the force and won I would believe her strength made sense.

At any rate, right now she makes for a terribly boring character. She's a perfect young Mary Sue who never screws up and can win in a fair fight against one of the strongest men in the galaxy. She can pilot, can fix complex electronics, and she can fight excellently. At this rate, in the sequels she'll have pretty much everything except character development. But I subscribe to my brother's theory, which says that she's actually being played up to be this infallible badass just so she can get knocked down later. It's not hard for me to believe that, as otherwise Kylo Ren will be the only one with a great character arc in front of him, and it would be unbalanced for this to not be the case with Rey as well.

Anyway, excellently made movie otherwise, but it does suck that it's basically a remake of A New Hope.
Eh, I don't see Rey as a boring or perfect character. She's a scavenger who is good with machines and piloting, which is pretty much Luke from Ep. IV (farm boy one day, X-wing pilot destroying the Death Star the next). She's an orphan who had to learn to take care of herself, so being adept* with that staff makes sense. She's un-perfect enough to get kidnapped by Kylo Ren** and Force-shoved against a tree into unconsciousness. The Mary Sue trope is also about wish fulfillment and having a character proxy for the author/reader; to me, Fin actually fits that bill. He's easily the character we can most sympathize with (and I think he'll have a great character arc, too; I really appreciate them putting so much emphasis on a character that simply has a good heart - not every hero needs to be a tortured genius or a precocious talent).

To me, the only thing that doesn't work is the lightsaber duel, because Rey is fighting someone who is, at worst, the third most powerful Force sensitive in the galaxy (behind Snoke and Luke). And it's true that he's injured, but I wouldn't put being distraught about Han's death as a reason; he killed his father so that he could become stronger with the Dark Side of the Force (he should actually be more powerful at that point, from a Force connection standpoint). But...I guess it's not much more unrealistic than Obi-Wan taking down Darth Maul when he was an inexperienced padawan.

*She's quite adept, though, which is why I'd still wager that she was a very young student of Luke's or something (perhaps the only padawan to escape the Knights of Ren).

**You can make the argument that Kylo Ren is actually Rey's teacher in the movie. In a perverse way, he ends up teaching her about the Force. At first, it's only her seeing its power. But when he tries to mind trick her, she feels the Force up close and personal, and learns that her will is enough to tap into the Force itself.

Other stuff:
-Maybe the Han/smuggler scene would've been better if it didn't have the most obvious special effects. Most of the movie looks fantastic, except for the monsters there. They scream CG.
-Maz Kanata kinda sucked. Obvious mo-cap is obvious, but the bigger sin is that she exists for no other reason than to be convenient to the plot. "Here's a convenient Yoda stand in to explain more of the Force and, what the hell, she has Anakin's old lightsaber, too." The writers even realized how useless they made the character; they cut a later scene where she hands the lightsaber to Leia after the attack because Maz had nothing else to do with the plot.
-Would have been far more powerful if Kylo Ren didn't remove his helmet until the confrontation with Han.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#43
OK, spoilers obviously, but some interesting ideas:
http://www.bustle.com/articles/1309...star-wars-the-force-awakens-these-plot-points

I think you might be able to go even further: perhaps Rey is actually Kylo Ren's daughter. What if Ben Skywalker is Luke's prized pupil, but has a daughter who is also entering into Jedi training at a young age? Ben becomes Kylo Ren and slaughters all of the Jedi, save for Luke (too powerful to take on) and his own daughter. Ren then hides his daughter away on Jakku, where Luke won't finder her, and where she won't have anyone to train her in the ways of the Force. Alternately, Luke could save her and try to hide her on Jakku away from Ren.
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#44
OK, spoilers obviously, but some interesting ideas:
http://www.bustle.com/articles/1309...star-wars-the-force-awakens-these-plot-points

I think you might be able to go even further: perhaps Rey is actually Kylo Ren's daughter. What if Ben Skywalker is Luke's prized pupil, but has a daughter who is also entering into Jedi training at a young age? Ben becomes Kylo Ren and slaughters all of the Jedi, save for Luke (too powerful to take on) and his own daughter. Ren then hides his daughter away on Jakku, where Luke won't finder her, and where she won't have anyone to train her in the ways of the Force. Alternately, Luke could save her and try to hide her on Jakku away from Ren.
My only issue with this is...

I think Kylo Ren is too young to be Rey's father for the simple reason that only 30 years have passed since EP6, so even if Ren were born 9 months after EP6, he'd still be only close to 30. Rey is too old to be Ren's daughter. But I also wonder if Rey is even related to Ren. I honestly am not sure what to think though of the idea that maybe Rey is Luke's daughter. I suppose it's possible, but then who is the mother? Unless Ren killed Luke's wife (whoever that could be), and Luke feels guilty of that, hence why he went into exile.

I'm just not feeling the idea that they are related. I mean, if that were the case, why doesn't anyone even take notice of it? If Rey is Leia's daughter for example, why didn't either of them acknowledge that? I suppose it's possible Rey lost her memory at a young age or something, and Leia knows this, hence why she went in to comfort and hug her even though those two had supposedly never met. Hell, Leia went in to hug Rey and not Chewie which could lead to some creedence to that.

As far as the article goes, I just don't see it. The Luke-is-the-father-of-Rey idea to me sounds more plausible than Rey and Ren as siblings. Besides, we've already seen this story-arc in the original trilogy with Leia and Luke, although that wasn't a major secret like Vader and Luke.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#45
I did a hostile takeover of Film Enthusiast to post a review.
http://film-enthusiast.com/review/review-star-wars-the-force-awakens/

If anyone wants to do a roundtable discussion (or two, or three), lemme know.
My only issue with this is...

I think Kylo Ren is too young to be Rey's father for the simple reason that only 30 years have passed since EP6, so even if Ren were born 9 months after EP6, he'd still be only close to 30. Rey is too old to be Ren's daughter. But I also wonder if Rey is even related to Ren. I honestly am not sure what to think though of the idea that maybe Rey is Luke's daughter. I suppose it's possible, but then who is the mother? Unless Ren killed Luke's wife (whoever that could be), and Luke feels guilty of that, hence why he went into exile.

I'm just not feeling the idea that they are related. I mean, if that were the case, why doesn't anyone even take notice of it? If Rey is Leia's daughter for example, why didn't either of them acknowledge that? I suppose it's possible Rey lost her memory at a young age or something, and Leia knows this, hence why she went in to comfort and hug her even though those two had supposedly never met. Hell, Leia went in to hug Rey and not Chewie which could lead to some creedence to that.

As far as the article goes, I just don't see it. The Luke-is-the-father-of-Rey idea to me sounds more plausible than Rey and Ren as siblings. Besides, we've already seen this story-arc in the original trilogy with Leia and Luke, although that wasn't a major secret like Vader and Luke.
True, true. I hadn't fully thought through the timeline yet. That would leave Rey as either Luke's daughter, Han/Leia's daughter, or someone else completely removed from the Skywalker bloodline. I'd prefer the latter. The idea of Luke as the dad just seems a bit meh to me. Jedi aren't supposed to have kids, and Luke has obviously been trying to stay on the straight and narrow when reestablishing a Jedi order.

Also, went to see the movie again:
-The pacing that seemed a bit all over the place before is far more grounded when you take away the nostalgia buzz.
-They actually do show off Starkiller Base earlier. They don't explain it early enough, but it does improve on a second viewing.
-Likewise, the end duel works way better the second time. Kylo Ren is actually dominating poor Fin, fucking around with him until he gets tagged, and then he takes Fin out in short order because he's pissed for having let him do any damage at all. When Rey picks up the lighstaber, she's mostly running through the first 3/4 of the duel. That makes more sense. She gets pushed around, literally to the edge, and she's only able to retaliate fully when she follows Max Kunata's advice - she closes her eyes and feels the Force around her.
-Everything works better on the second try, I think. You can't relive that first burst of nostalgia, but there's a better movie in its place.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#47
So...saw it for a third time.

I've read some critics talk about how their opinions have gotten a bit more mixed and negative after seeing the movie again.

I'm the opposite. It's better each time, IMO.
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#48
So...saw it for a third time.

I've read some critics talk about how their opinions have gotten a bit more mixed and negative after seeing the movie again.

I'm the opposite. It's better each time, IMO.
Im going to see it again tonight, so I'll let you know what I discover this time.
 
#49
On Rey
I really hope she isn't related to any of the main cast. Can we have a character that's not X's son or Y's nephew or anything? I'd prefer Rey not be tied to any other character. The whole "you're related to me thing" is kinda overplayed and done at this point.

I'd much prefer if she was originally suppose to be trained but upon arrival Rylo killed all the youngsters and then her parents hid her on Jakku to protect her.

I look forward to finding out Finn is really Poe's lost brother and the Supreme Leader is the Emperor's son, and Han Solo was actually Luke's second cousin twice removed.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
#50
Im going to see it again tonight, so I'll let you know what I discover this time.
Good stuff, I look forward to your thoughts.
On Rey
I really hope she isn't related to any of the main cast. Can we have a character that's not X's son or Y's nephew or anything? I'd prefer Rey not be tied to any other character. The whole "you're related to me thing" is kinda overplayed and done at this point.

I'd much prefer if she was originally suppose to be trained but upon arrival Rylo killed all the youngsters and then her parents hid her on Jakku to protect her.

I look forward to finding out Finn is really Poe's lost brother and the Supreme Leader is the Emperor's son, and Han Solo was actually Luke's second cousin twice removed.
Yeah, the more I think on it, the less I want Rey as some sort of twice-removed Skywalker. Maybe a padawan of Luke's that escaped, but nothing more. The same way that I kinda hope that Fin doesn't end up Force-sensitive, y'know? We don't need everyone to be a Jedi, and we don't need everyone to be a Skywalker-Organa-Solo.
 
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