TALES FROM TEH VAULT! Does this Nintendo exist anymore...?

[TheAmazingLSB]

I would like to share an interview with you about Nintendo....

This one is from NEXTGEN Magazine Aug 2001....

This Nintendo cared about making the Holiday Season....

This Nintendo cared about listening to Nintendo of America....

This Nintendo shared information with the press....

This Nintendo didn't ignore the third party problem and even tried to address it....

This Nintendo understood that it needed a variety of software from third parties to help it succeed....

This Nintendo wasn't affraid to take more chances on the buisness side of things....

This Nintendo wasn't afraid to take a loss to get their console down to a reasonable price for the consumer....

This Nintendo understood its audience much better and listened to them....

This Nintendo focused on family friendly, but also understood the importance of the more mature market....

This Nintendo....

Just read the interview and weep.... The sorrow fills me deeply simply because, look at how much of a better NOA president Peter Main was....

Look at how Yamauchi himself was willing to take a loss to get the console out there in peoples homes....

I mean, just look at how they honestly cared enough to address the third party issue....

Something current Nintendo has ignored for years....

Behold and despair....

So I ask you....

Does this Nintendo exist anymore...?

If it does, explain....

If you are like me and think it doesn't....

Fill me in....

Could this Nintendo ever return...?

Or am I'm just asking too much...?

What say you...?

 

[thekiller7]

Thread title made me think of this classic....

I'll read this while I'm at work. And have a response typed up for you later. Nice work on the OP @TheAmazingLSB

 

[Koenig]

Nintendo really has changed for the worse IMO.

 

[mattavelle1]

No this Nintendo dosent exist anymore as far as home consoles are concerned. Now on the handheld side of the business I think this model has worked well for them. They have packed for the most part there handhelds with a more core experience, 3rd parties, good enough tech in the portables, and willing to do whatever to make sure they are a success (see 3DS ambassador program as the latest jump start after a rough launch).

Now on the home console side I don't think you will see them return to form in this article. They have been burned not only by GC, but they gave 3rd parties at very most the launch to the WiiU and they just couldn't carry it. Why? It's simple, Xbox and PS own this articles space now on the home console side of things, it's that simple really. Nintendo will get 3rd party like W101 and MH things like that but the annual CoD, Assassins Creed things of that nature PS and Xbox own those now.

Now the best we can hope for from here on out. If the NX is a hybrid of sorts. You could take the axing of the final year of WiiU as a f-u to the home console Nintendo gamers, there is only 13 mill of us so why not. And we can hope that the plans for NX are much more in line with the way they run the portable business. I mean 3DS is somewhere around 50 mill I believe, maybe the NX takes more of the portable side of the business and makes it work for the whole of the NX. If that happens then you could some of these old Nintendo things happening again, because the portable side is much more inline with this article.

All this is just how I'm thinkin about it. Possibility I reckon is how I feel.

 

[SkywardCrowbar]

I answered "Kinda" in the poll, and I don't think that's automatically a bad thing...

I'll put my 2 cents in on a few points...

1. "This Nintendo cared about making the Holiday Season...."

I've gone on record in a few threads and in the chat saying that Nintendo skipping this holiday season is actually the best course of action for both gamers and the company itself. You'll get an NX launch with more games and better more polished games. NX will also not be launching right up against PS4K, and will have a marketing advantage.

2. "This Nintendo cared about listening to Nintendo of America...."

This is very true. Nintendo doesn't market games effectively for NA at all. Perhaps it's time for a change at the top of NA to someone who's more capable of getting a word in edge wise with the big wigs in Japan?

3. "This Nintendo wasn't afraid to take a loss to get their console down to a reasonable price for the consumer...."

Nintendo took a loss with Wii U at launch and it helped them none. I'd rather them sell the NX at a profit. I'm looking at this from a holistic perspective; both as a gamer and from the business side of things.

4. "Does this Nintendo exist anymore...?"

Like I said above, I said "kinda." Ultimately I do think Nintendo has made some poor decisions the last couple of years, but I actually loved the Wii era of games, so I don't think I'm as down as the company as many are because I've been enjoying the bulk of their output for longer.

I also think that the video game market has changed since 2001. Things aren't as static, and I applaud Nintendo for not jumping into the entire pissing contest over processing power and graphics.

I think that there is somewhat of a NewTendo arising right now. I personally am highly optimistic about its future, though I do understand to an extent why others might be. I'm not upset that Nintendo of the past isn't exactly what Nintendo of the present is trying to make Nintendo of the future.

 

[TheAmazingLSB]

I suppose I'm not equating how great the Gamecube was in terms of its sales, but more in terms of just Nintendo as a company in general during that time....

DVD and MS helped put Nintendo in third place that gen no doubt....

But you could see Nintendo was trying to play on equal footing with the big boys in terms of priorities.....

I don't deny that the Gamecube ultimately lost out to PS2 and XBOX for a lot of different reasons....

But I also acknowledge the fact that Nintendo at that time was doing a lot of things right....

And I honestly don't think they lost that gen from lack of trying....

Which is what I think happened with the Wii U....

Nintendo poured everything into the Gamecube at that time, even knowing they were losing the race....

They didn't abandon it in favor of diverting resources to their next console, perfectly content to watch it die a slow painful death, like they are with teh Wii U....

I think we need this Nintendo back is all....

The one that cares about the consumer enough to support a system they know is in distant third....

I want that Nintendo back....

The Nintendo that was willing to take a loss for the sake of the brand and the consumer....

I want that Nintendo back....

 

[SkywardCrowbar]

I think Nintendo put a lot into the Wii U for the first few years, but they were woefully unprepared for the challenges of higher level game development. That problem was exacerbated by the Wii U being odd to dev for considering the two screens.

I don't think that if Nintendo went all in this Christmas with Wii U that it would really turn anything around. Very likely Wii U still wouldn't manage lifetime sales of the Gamecube, which was a sales flop itself...

I do understand wanting Nintendo to be able to take a loss for the brand and the consumer, but you can only take a loss for so long... At the end of the day, the business must thrive and must be making money in order for the games to continue to flow.

 

[TheAmazingLSB]

I think Nintendo put a lot into the Wii U for the first few years, but they were woefully unprepared for the challenges of higher level game development. That problem was exacerbated by the Wii U being odd to dev for considering the two screens.

I don't think that if Nintendo went all in this Christmas with Wii U that it would really turn anything around. Very likely Wii U still wouldn't manage lifetime sales of the Gamecube, which was a sales flop itself...

But Wii U owners wouldn't have been left high and dry.... Something that is more important to me than sales or profit....

Nintendo is losing a lot of trust with the consumer by abandoning the Wii U, whether it was a failure in terms of sales or not imo....

It means something that they were so quick to turn tail and run on the Wii U....

At least to me it does....

And it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence and consumer trust that they wouldn't do the same with the NX if a similar situation arises....

I don't care how much the NX launch will benefit from it, abandoning the Wii U was dirty pool ol man....

 

[SkywardCrowbar]

I think Nintendo is banking on (and rightfully so) that consumer trust will be won back with a great machine in the NX that has plenty of great software to play on it.

I also doubt that if the NX bombs the way Wii U did that Nintendo will pull the plug so abruptly... I think it's all or nothing with NX. Could very well be a turning point for the entire company.

 

[thekiller7]

Old Nintendo was magical and treated it's consumers, fans, and customers like kings.
New modern Nintendo sucks fucking balls. Major balls.

 

[FriedShoes]

Its PR speak. Reggie talks like this in every interview he gives.
Did you actually buy that, because the reality of the Gamecube showed otherwise in every possible way.
Nintendo tried very similar things to the actions mentioned in the interview, yes even the mature audience, and similarly it all failed again, but just much quicker.

 

[TheAmazingLSB]

Did you actually buy that, because the reality of the Gamecube showed otherwise in every possible way.

Explain.... How did the reality of the Gamecube contradict what Peter Main said here...?

 

[FriedShoes]

Explain.... How did the reality of the Gamecube contradict what Peter Main said here...?

None of it came to fruition. 3rd parties never stayed, they instead had to rely on cross-deals and developing. Thats all I got though, everything else he said was basic fact, even if they failed to achieve anything.

This Nintendo cared about making the Holiday Season....
When havent they? Just because this one year is bare doesnt mean they dont care about it, its just that they screwed themselves over and cant do anything about it except take the damn blow.

This Nintendo cared about listening to Nintendo of America....
This has never been true more so than it is today. There's a reason there are a lot of games being left over in Japan since the Wii days, and why there's so many localization news as of late; its because they have free reign over deciding what come over, whats changed, and how its marketed. They never had a say in what gets developed, not then and not now, but everything else is in their hands.
A purely speculative aside, I'm also pretty sure NoA helped brainstorm the final name for Wii U.

This Nintendo shared information with the press....
This type of interview existed pre-Wii launch, pre-Wii U launch, and pre-NX launch. This is only 3 months before launch, of course he's an open (if somewhat fabricated) book with the press.
Otherwise, stuff like that has always been kept close to their chest. Wii U was actually different, with the reveal being almost a full year before launch.

This Nintendo didn't ignore the third party problem and even tried to address it....
This Nintendo understood that it needed a variety of software from third parties to help it succeed....
UNPRECEDENTED PARTNERSHIP WITH EA

NX will probably be the only time this will be tested, because I'm certain they will straight out ignore western 3rd parties they dont create partnerships with. With Wii U, they so tried to mend the third party problem. Look at that Wii U reveal and it becomes very apparent. All for naught, because they didnt forsee the success of the PS4, the power-gap (lol), their sales failures, and the lackluster reception the gamepad got (which was just a scapegoat). Their architecture, pre x86 trash everyone else pushed, was meant to ease ports. This can be seen in the 3rd party launch titles, where devs stated it was as simple as changing some lines of code and optimizing.
When that failed, they began to keep the bridges intact by forging partnerships and relationships with 3rd parties, whether it was by sharing IPs or co-developing games.

Their indie game push is also emblematic of this shift. I guess they dont really count as the third parties you are insinuating though. Its still a massive step-up from how they treated these developers before, its incredibly welcoming to the devs and has become a great place for them to successfully sell their wares. I think the only company Shovel Knight thanked was Nintendo when they won that Game Award. This openness will continue going forward, and will surely be how Nintendo hopes to keep that variety, alongside partnerships, until they succeed beyond the point of being ignored by other 3rd parties.

This Nintendo wasn't affraid to take more chances on the buisness side of things....
I'm not too clear on this point. I mean, abandoning Wii U for NX and the future is a pretty big chance on the business side of things.

This Nintendo wasn't afraid to take a loss to get their console down to a reasonable price for the consumer....
They did take a loss, it just wasnt a big enough one when it came too Wii U, compacted with the terrible marketing it just screamed confusion. 3DS kinda counts as well, that early emergency price cut put that at a loss and it took a while for them to begin making a profit with that.

It does hint at them possibly being not confident in NX's sales that they dont plan on selling it at a loss, doing so with Wii U hurt them plenty. There a reasons why MS and Sony can take a loss leader and why Nintendo cant, unless they plan on changing up services like free online. Or increasing amiibo importance. Oh joy.

This Nintendo understood its audience much better and listened to them....
Probably. That's all subjective though. I see no real evidence of "they did this because of us" besides stuff that happened recently. I wasnt around much in the N64/GC era, sue me.

This Nintendo focused on family friendly, but also understood the importance of the more mature market....
I think they understood that this time around too, but the 3rd parties which provided those experiences werent there after launch and oddly their more mature titles head to 3DS, where they are more successful. NoA has been sugarcoating the rest a bit. Funding the ports and creation of Ninja Gaiden, Bayonettas and pushing skus with games like ZombiU of all things are examples, they just stopped because fuck man it didnt work.
I do agree with the sentiment that they should send some more resources out to develop those games, and maybe that will happen on NX, since they will be going it alone for the long road.

 

[TheAmazingLSB]

None of it came to fruition. 3rd parties never stayed, they instead had to rely on cross-deals and developing. Thats all I got though, everything else he said was basic fact, even if they failed to achieve anything.

This Nintendo cared about making the Holiday Season....
When havent they? Just because this one year is bare doesnt mean they dont care about it, its just that they screwed themselves over and cant do anything about it except take the damn blow.

This Nintendo cared about listening to Nintendo of America....
This has never been true more so than it is today. There's a reason there are a lot of games being left over in Japan since the Wii days, and why there's so many localization news as of late; its because they have free reign over deciding what come over, whats changed, and how its marketed. They never had a say in what gets developed, not then and not now, but everything else is in their hands.
A purely speculative aside, I'm also pretty sure NoA helped brainstorm the final name for Wii U.

This Nintendo shared information with the press....
This type of interview existed pre-Wii launch, pre-Wii U launch, and pre-NX launch. This is only 3 months before launch, of course he's an open (if somewhat fabricated) book with the press.
Otherwise, stuff like that has always been kept close to their chest. Wii U was actually different, with the reveal being almost a full year before launch.
This Nintendo didn't ignore the third party problem and even tried to address it....
This Nintendo understood that it needed a variety of software from third parties to help it succeed....
UNPRECEDENTED PARTNERSHIP WITH EA

NX will probably be the only time this will be tested, because I'm certain they will straight out ignore western 3rd parties they dont create partnerships with. With Wii U, they so tried to mend the third party problem. Look at that Wii U reveal and it becomes very apparent. All for naught, because they didnt forsee the success of the PS4, the power-gap (lol), their sales failures, and the lackluster reception the gamepad got (which was just a scapegoat). Their architecture, pre x86 trash everyone else pushed, was meant to ease ports. This can be seen in the 3rd party launch titles, where devs stated it was as simple as changing some lines of code and optimizing.
When that failed, they began to keep the bridges intact by forging partnerships and relationships with 3rd parties, whether it was by sharing IPs or co-developing games.

Their indie game push is also emblematic of this shift. I guess they dont really count as the third parties you are insinuating though. Its still a massive step-up from how they treated these developers before, its incredibly welcoming to the devs and has become a great place for them to successfully sell their wares. I think the only company Shovel Knight thanked was Nintendo when they won that Game Award. This openness will continue going forward, and will surely be how Nintendo hopes to keep that variety, alongside partnerships, until they succeed beyond the point of being ignored by other 3rd parties.

This Nintendo wasn't affraid to take more chances on the buisness side of things....
I'm not too clear on this point. I mean, abandoning Wii U for NX and the future is a pretty big chance on the business side of things.

This Nintendo wasn't afraid to take a loss to get their console down to a reasonable price for the consumer....
They did take a loss, it just wasnt a big enough one when it came too Wii U, compacted with the terrible marketing it just screamed confusion. 3DS kinda counts as well, that early emergency price cut put that at a loss and it took a while for them to begin making a profit with that.

It does hint at them possibly being not confident in NX's sales that they dont plan on selling it at a loss, doing so with Wii U hurt them plenty. There a reasons why MS and Sony can take a loss leader and why Nintendo cant, unless they plan on changing up services like free online. Or increasing amiibo importance. Oh joy.

This Nintendo understood its audience much better and listened to them....
Probably. That's all subjective though. I see no real evidence of "they did this because of us" besides stuff that happened recently. I wasnt around much in the N64/GC era, sue me.

This Nintendo focused on family friendly, but also understood the importance of the more mature market....
I think they understood that this time around too, but the 3rd parties which provided those experiences werent there after launch and oddly their more mature titles head to 3DS, where they are more successful. NoA has been sugarcoating the rest a bit. Funding the ports and creation of Ninja Gaiden, Bayonettas and pushing skus with games like ZombiU of all things are examples, they just stopped because fuck man it didnt work.
I do agree with the sentiment that they should send some more resources out to develop those games, and maybe that will happen on NX, since they will be going it alone for the long road.

Longest post I've ever been able to get out of Fried....

Good stuff....

 

[TheAmazingLSB]

Ultimately, this strategy worked better for than Gamecube than the current startegy did for Wii U....

I'm saying that, if Nintendo were going to go back to a certain philosophy in terms of how it made decisions and what it prioretized, I would want it to return to this era of thought....

I mean, some would say it should be more like the N64 era train of thought, or the Wii, but anything would be better than the current Wii U strategy imo....

Yes, even the Gamecube strategy that was ultimately unsuccessful, but at least attempted to go head on with SONY and MS on equal footing....

Something you will likely never see from Nintendo again....

But that doesn't stop me from believing Nintendo would be better off going back to this strategy at this point....

Even if it will never happen....

This Nintendo, no matter how great it was in my eyes, will never return....

For better or worse....

 

[TheAmazingLSB]

Every Nintendo console failed badly compared to the previous gen that came before....

Except for the Wii, but when compared to the past history of Nintendo consoles as a whole, you can't judge the success of Nintendo consoles based on the Wii's success....

After the abismal state of things with the Wii U, we should really start to rethink what we consider to be failure in terms of past Nintendo consoles....

Gamecube might have failed sales wise, but did it fail in all the other areas that Nintendo came up short on with the Wii and Wii U...?

Third party ports on par with other consoles - check....

Exclusives that made you want to buy the damn thing - check....

Third party support that was better than the previous generation - check....

Graphics on par with or better than the competition - check....

On a level playing ground in terms of technology with its competitors - check....

Not affraid to admit they were in direct competition with rivals - check....

A reasonable price point - check

A more mature advertising campain that focused on a larger demographic than just the family oriented one - check....

I mean, I could go on....

These are all things fans have been screaming about wanting back from Nintendo for years, regardless of how much it helped or didn't help Gamecube sales....

Don't you get what I'm saying here...?

It might not have been the best route for Nintendo in terms of substantial profit gain, but it did benefit us, the consumer....

That is the important part of all this....

You would have to be a person who literally puts Nintendo before themself as a consumer to not want this kind of thing from them imo....

Why...?

Because this strategy benefited gamers....

Even if it didn't always pay off for Nintendo....

And that used to matter to Nintendo....

You know, gamers....

And I'm telling you this right now, I was much happier with teh Gamecube and the Nintendo of that era in terms of how they did things than I was ever with the Wii or Wii U era Nintendo....

Just one man's opinion of corse....

 

[mattavelle1]

I personally do put Nintendo health as a business before my needs and wants as a consumer. The main reason being I want them to stay in business on there own terms so I can keep playing there games they are free to create on there own terms.

If there not healthy as a business then we all lose Nintendo, so I'll let them walk there own way and make a small profit with WiiU. If not for it there are many games I would not have been turned onto.

And at anytime I can buy another console if I feel the need to.

 

[TheAmazingLSB]

I personally do put Nintendo health as a business before my needs and wants as a consumer. The main reason being I want them to stay in business on there own terms so I can keep playing there games they are free to create on there own terms.

If there not healthy as a business then we all lose Nintendo, so I'll let them walk there own way and make a small profit with WiiU. If not for it there are many games I would not have been turned onto.

And at anytime I can buy another console if I feel the need to.

I can't approve of this philosophy....

But more power to ya....

If it works for ya, it works for ya....

I kinda see things the complete opposite myself....

 

[EvilTw1n]

Interesting stuff. I grok LSB's view. But...

Their architecture, pre x86 trash everyone else pushed, was meant to ease ports. This can be seen in the 3rd party launch titles, where devs stated it was as simple as changing some lines of code and optimizing.

Posting in a cybers--oh wait.

Just wanted to reiterate this point. Because it bleeds into why I think Nintendo did try to exist exactly how some folks want them to. They didn't with the Wii; that was a disruption. The Wii U, on the other hand, was battening down the freak flag and being way, way more conventional - AMD GPU, pooled memory, allegedly getting EA's help on online infrastructure, cozying up to Ubi (like they did with Capcom back in the GC days), the GamePad is just a conventional dual analog controller with a big touch screen, and they sold it at a loss. So I don't weep, because Nintendo basically tossed up their hands with the Wii U, gave third parties pretty much exactly what they said they wanted, and this is where it's gotten them. Nowhere.

 

[Koenig]

Interesting stuff. I grok LSB's view. But...

Posting in a cybers--oh wait.

Just wanted to reiterate this point. Because it bleeds into why I think Nintendo did try to exist exactly how some folks want them to. They didn't with the Wii; that was a disruption. The Wii U, on the other hand, was battening down the freak flag and being way, way more conventional - AMD GPU, pooled memory, allegedly getting EA's help on online infrastructure, cozying up to Ubi (like they did with Capcom back in the GC days), the GamePad is just a conventional dual analog controller with a big touch screen, and they sold it at a loss. So I don't weep, because Nintendo basically tossed up their hands with the Wii U, gave third parties pretty much exactly what they said they wanted, and this is where it's gotten them. Nowhere.

It gave third parties what they wanted, barring for consumers; and the gamepad gave (most) consumers nothing that they wanted.

 

[Odo]

Nintendo poured everything into the Gamecube at that time, even knowing they were losing the race....

They didn't abandon it in favor of diverting resources to their next console, perfectly content to watch it die a slow painful death, like they are with teh Wii U....

I think we need this Nintendo back is all....

The one that cares about the consumer enough to support a system they know is in distant third....

I want that Nintendo back....

The Nintendo that was willing to take a loss for the sake of the brand and the consumer....

I want that Nintendo back....

THIS!

 

[Odo]

Nintendo is losing a lot of trust with the consumer by abandoning the Wii U, whether it was a failure in terms of sales or not imo....

It means something that they were so quick to turn tail and run on the Wii U....

At least to me it does....

And it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence and consumer trust that they wouldn't do the same with the NX if a similar situation arises....

I don't care how much the NX launch will benefit from it, abandoning the Wii U was dirty pool ol man....

THIS too!

After all the things Nintendo have done since 2015, like Federation Force dog poo, I can say that the Nintendo of Metroid Prime, Wind Waker and Mario Galaxy has bitten the dust.

NX has to be extraordinary to sell more than Wii U.

 

[Superfakerbros]

None of it came to fruition. 3rd parties never stayed, they instead had to rely on cross-deals and developing. Thats all I got though, everything else he said was basic fact, even if they failed to achieve anything.

This Nintendo cared about making the Holiday Season....
When havent they? Just because this one year is bare doesnt mean they dont care about it, its just that they screwed themselves over and cant do anything about it except take the damn blow.

This Nintendo cared about listening to Nintendo of America....
This has never been true more so than it is today. There's a reason there are a lot of games being left over in Japan since the Wii days, and why there's so many localization news as of late; its because they have free reign over deciding what come over, whats changed, and how its marketed. They never had a say in what gets developed, not then and not now, but everything else is in their hands.
A purely speculative aside, I'm also pretty sure NoA helped brainstorm the final name for Wii U.

This Nintendo shared information with the press....
This type of interview existed pre-Wii launch, pre-Wii U launch, and pre-NX launch. This is only 3 months before launch, of course he's an open (if somewhat fabricated) book with the press.
Otherwise, stuff like that has always been kept close to their chest. Wii U was actually different, with the reveal being almost a full year before launch.
This Nintendo didn't ignore the third party problem and even tried to address it....
This Nintendo understood that it needed a variety of software from third parties to help it succeed....
UNPRECEDENTED PARTNERSHIP WITH EA

NX will probably be the only time this will be tested, because I'm certain they will straight out ignore western 3rd parties they dont create partnerships with. With Wii U, they so tried to mend the third party problem. Look at that Wii U reveal and it becomes very apparent. All for naught, because they didnt forsee the success of the PS4, the power-gap (lol), their sales failures, and the lackluster reception the gamepad got (which was just a scapegoat). Their architecture, pre x86 trash everyone else pushed, was meant to ease ports. This can be seen in the 3rd party launch titles, where devs stated it was as simple as changing some lines of code and optimizing.
When that failed, they began to keep the bridges intact by forging partnerships and relationships with 3rd parties, whether it was by sharing IPs or co-developing games.

Their indie game push is also emblematic of this shift. I guess they dont really count as the third parties you are insinuating though. Its still a massive step-up from how they treated these developers before, its incredibly welcoming to the devs and has become a great place for them to successfully sell their wares. I think the only company Shovel Knight thanked was Nintendo when they won that Game Award. This openness will continue going forward, and will surely be how Nintendo hopes to keep that variety, alongside partnerships, until they succeed beyond the point of being ignored by other 3rd parties.

This Nintendo wasn't affraid to take more chances on the buisness side of things....
I'm not too clear on this point. I mean, abandoning Wii U for NX and the future is a pretty big chance on the business side of things.

This Nintendo wasn't afraid to take a loss to get their console down to a reasonable price for the consumer....
They did take a loss, it just wasnt a big enough one when it came too Wii U, compacted with the terrible marketing it just screamed confusion. 3DS kinda counts as well, that early emergency price cut put that at a loss and it took a while for them to begin making a profit with that.

It does hint at them possibly being not confident in NX's sales that they dont plan on selling it at a loss, doing so with Wii U hurt them plenty. There a reasons why MS and Sony can take a loss leader and why Nintendo cant, unless they plan on changing up services like free online. Or increasing amiibo importance. Oh joy.

This Nintendo understood its audience much better and listened to them....
Probably. That's all subjective though. I see no real evidence of "they did this because of us" besides stuff that happened recently. I wasnt around much in the N64/GC era, sue me.

This Nintendo focused on family friendly, but also understood the importance of the more mature market....
I think they understood that this time around too, but the 3rd parties which provided those experiences werent there after launch and oddly their more mature titles head to 3DS, where they are more successful. NoA has been sugarcoating the rest a bit. Funding the ports and creation of Ninja Gaiden, Bayonettas and pushing skus with games like ZombiU of all things are examples, they just stopped because fuck man it didnt work.
I do agree with the sentiment that they should send some more resources out to develop those games, and maybe that will happen on NX, since they will be going it alone for the long road.

I was gonna more or less say the same but you hit the nail on the head. Great post, man

 

[SkywardCrowbar]

THIS too!

After all the things Nintendo have done since 2015, like Federation Force dog poo, I can say that the Nintendo of Metroid Prime, Wind Waker and Mario Galaxy has bitten the dust.

NX has to be extraordinary to sell more than Wii U.

I want a new Metroid Prime as much as anyone I promise you, but calling Federation Force dog poo before its even been released is weak.

Don't judge a book by its cover.

 

[Odo]

I want a new Metroid Prime as much as anyone I promise you, but calling Federation Force dog poo before its even been released is weak.

Don't judge a book by its cover.

Dog poo may be too much, right?

Do you think that game looks nice? I don't know about Metroid fans here, but I found nobody putting this game on their wishlists to try out. In my case I wouldn't pay full price on that game.

I don't know you but I usually do judge games by trailers and gameplay videos. Trailers and videos are meant to be judged and analysed. People say "this game looks rubbish or looks good" based on trailers and gameplay videos. In my case I say it's dog poo. Of course it's entirely my opinion. MFF looks so cheap and generic like a cheap indie FPS.

If I'm wrong and Federation Force is a high quality FPS game that will sell good and be high praised and I end up trying it out, I'll say "yeah it's in fact brilliant", but for now, I believe it's dog poo and a huge let down. I didn't like what I saw from the gameplay videos. Zero interest in play that.

 

[simplyTravis]

I think Nintendo is starting to slowly go back this way. I feel like they are just staying more tight lipped at this moment to avoid being copied (as they have been many times in the past.)

What's interesting is I remember reading that interview waaaaaay back in the day! Nice find!

 

[Koenig]

Dog poo may be too much, right?

Do you think that game looks nice? I don't know about Metroid fans here, but I found nobody putting this game on their wishlists to try out. In my case I wouldn't pay full price on that game.

I don't know you but I usually do judge games by trailers and gameplay videos. Trailers and videos are meant to be judged and analysed. People say "this game looks rubbish or looks good" based on trailers and gameplay videos. In my case I say it's dog poo. Of course it's entirely my opinion. MFF looks so cheap and generic like a cheap indie FPS.

If I'm wrong and Federation Force is a high quality FPS game that will sell good and be high praised and I end up trying it out, I'll say "yeah it's in fact brilliant", but for now, I believe it's dog poo and a huge let down. I didn't like what I saw from the gameplay videos. Zero interest in play that.

I do think it will be a good game, and it is one of the only games coming out a Nintendo ystem this year that I am even interested in. The problem is that with the exception of Nintendo, no one, especially Metroid fans, actually consider it a Metroid game. It is a slap to the face.

 

[FriedShoes]

Metroid fans is an anagram for entitled

 

[SkywardCrowbar]

I do think Federation Force looks like a good game. I've watched all the content thus far for it. The end product might not be good, but I am optimistic about it.

And as far as it being a slap in the face? It's better than no Metroid game at all!

 

[mattavelle1]

I don't know how many people played Metroid Hunters, but the single player in that game reminds me of MP:FF. Just by looks alone hunters kinda had that type of look.

 

[JungianNightmare]

Ouch, my soul needs a band aid. The Nintendo that can make the legendary games is still in there somewhere... But it is very easy to see they are not in control. And this is purely from a game design standpoint. I stopped caring about hardware a while ago. Its been more than ehough for me for a while now. Its the games of the past Xdecade that have been, by and large, coming up short for me.

Metroid fans is an anagram for entitled

Whoa. Whoa. Seriously?

The most vocal reaction to federation force was embarrassing. Cringe worthy. Especially for metroid fans to see. Completely unconstructive, vulgar bile being spewed everywhere, the personification of the 'gamer' personality type that comprises the vast majority of the worst generation, the very things I want as much distance from legends like metroid as possible... Representing us with a deafening roar.

But that doesnt mean the other side of the coin isnt the same exact thing. And thats what this post looks like to me.

I AM entitled, because I spend money. These games arent being given out for free. I spend money on the games I want to see, the design philosophies I want to put my money down to pave a future for what I enjoy. I have spent over a thousand dollars between games and systems, investing in the metroid design philosophy. I AM entitled to express disaproval at the abandonment of that design philosophy, which is by far and away among the rarest in video games (Do NOT try to bring up indie attempts at metroid likes), in exchange for a mediocre design change clearly handed down from the marketing department. Not only is federation forces an entry in design I have plenty of, its not even a good example of a co-op objective based arena shooter. It is in every way shape and form a barely mediocre one. And yes, I have seen more than enough raw footage to come to that conclusion. The mechanics are servicable despite some poor choices (the snail speed jump hover is cringe inducing and im not even playing) but the progression design is awful.

I don't know how many people played Metroid Hunters, but the single player in that game reminds me of MP:FF. Just by looks alone hunters kinda had that type of look.

I don't see it. Not even remotely. Unless thats a dig at the graphics... in which I still dont see it. Not even as a joke. No matter how bad ff looks for a 3ds game, and how good hunters looked for a ds game... The difference in sysem power is a chasm.


Assuming its not... These games are so far apart. Despite how flawed hunters is, as a single player metroid game... Its still amazing to me. Not the game itself, but how it came to be.

Now, before hunters was delayed, I could agree with this. Back then the game was a multiplayer arena shooter only. That was it. Upon finding this out, there was a public outcry about wanting hunters to have a metroid adventure as well... And here is what happened:

The game was delayed, but only by about 6 scant months... And Gunpei bless that team, the crunch hell they must have gone through.

They added a full metroid prime adventure. Now it was far from a great metroid entry. It only had two bosses, which were repeated ad nasuem until the final boss, and the only powerups were weapons, which meant the only manner of progression design was hard locks via color coded doors (as opposed to a soft lock like jumping higher, which could have a great variety to designs for gating progress)...

But the game looked great for the DS, easily a system showcase, (for whatever thats worth on ds...) and the world and level design was just top notch. From the platforming, the changes in gravity, the verticality, hunters was a 3d wonderland to traverse... And they even used that to bolster the multi.

The multi arenas were almost all taken from the singleplayer game, and man that verticality and platforming design made for fantastic arenas, the shenanigans that went on with just the power of the games traversal mechanics... Well, until the hackers took over.

Hunters was a technical marvel, a damn fine piece of level design prowess, and despite its shortcomings, proof that nintendo actually gave a crap.

FF on the other hand, is bottom tier for what the system is capable of, has the most pathetic mundane design I have seen in a nintendo product since the days Old Man Murray terrorized complacent design staff into a renaissance with StC... Sadly outside nintendo in the western 'AAA' world... Things had arrived to this point much sooner... But thats a different subject.

Oh, and a massive helping of constant gas lighting from nintendo PR. As if this game was a straight up metroid design: a level 4 open world with power up based progression design, and we were just so blind and stupid we mistook it for a multi player objective based arena shooter.

'Now now metroid fans, this really is a metroid game, it will have Samus inthe story, just trust us. It will have a metroid story!!!'

What? OH BOY!!! A metroid story! The very founding thing that made the game iconic! I see now! Now that I know Samus will have an appearence, and there will be a metroidstory, the design choices I previousy saw have magically transformed into being metroid style design!!! How did I ever see it any other way? Oh man, I am so stupid and unperceptive, thank Kaz Nintendo pr is there to think for me! Why did I ever doubt you Regge!!!??

 

[Super Virtual Boy Show]

I'm late to the party, so I'll just leave my two cents here: "This Nintendo" seems to have done everything right, and yet the GameCube was a commercial failure anyways. Even if "this Nintendo" does still exist, that wouldn't necessarily be a good thing — for us or for them.
Although for the record, I loved the GameCube and thought it had an amazing library of both first and third-party games. Then again, I feel similarly about the Wii U (where most third-party support is from indies), so maybe I'm just a delusional fanboy.

 

[mattavelle1]

I'm late to the party, so I'll just leave my two cents here: "This Nintendo" seems to have done everything right, and yet the GameCube was a commercial failure anyways. Even if "this Nintendo" does still exist, that wouldn't necessarily be a good thing — for us or for them.
Although for the record, I loved the GameCube and thought it had an amazing library of both first and third-party games. Then again, I feel similarly about the Wii U (where most third-party support is from indies), so maybe I'm just a delusional fanboy.

Do you precieve yourself as a "delusional fanboy"? Or how do you view yourself in your gaming with Nintendo?

Don't let the Internet tell you what you are because you already know what you are. So how do you precieve yourself?

 

[Super Virtual Boy Show]

Do you precieve yourself as a "delusional fanboy"? Or how do you view yourself in your gaming with Nintendo?

Don't let the Internet tell you what you are because you already know what you are. So how do you precieve yourself?

I'm just some dude who really enjoys the majority of Nintendo's first-party games and would like to see their systems become successful in the marketplace (so there'd be more people with which to play said games).
To be honest, I probably enjoy Nintendo games more than I should, but they just feel so fun, adventurous and earnest. There's something endearing about them that keeps me coming back time and time again.
I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm blindly loyal to Nintendo, but I definitely have a natural affinity for the types of games they create, and as a result I'm probably more likely to overlook the flaws of Nintendo and its works. Some might consider that delusional.

 

[mattavelle1]

I'm just some dude who really enjoys the majority of Nintendo's first-party games and would like to see their systems become successful in the marketplace (so there'd be more people with which to play said games).
To be honest, I probably enjoy Nintendo games more than I should, but they just feel so fun, adventurous and earnest. There's something endearing about them that keeps me coming back time and time again.
I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm blindly loyal to Nintendo, but I definitely have a natural affinity for the types of games they create, and as a result I'm probably more likely to overlook the flaws of Nintendo and its works. Some might consider that delusional.

Sounds like pretty much all of us here aswell, a very well grounded sense of yourself as a Nintendo fan. Nothing delusional at all