"Testing the waters" is a stupid strategy for third party publishers

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#1
Imagine going to a restaurant but they tell you that they won't make you a steak unless you eat a turd first.

Or, to be more pleasant, imagine you go to a nice Burger place called Cap Combo Burgers and Shakes or something, and ask for a delicious double cheeseburger with bacon and avocado. But they say, "hey buddy, I know we're known for our cheeseburgers, but we're not making those at this location. We only make veggie burgers here. But how about you hit that veggie burger first, and if you and your friends buy enough of them, maybe we'll consider bringing our delicious double cheeseburger with bacon and avocado. Let the fans know that we're listening."

But you don't like veggie burgers. So you walk across the street to Ramentendo, and buy a nice bowl of delicious ramen. Or maybe you hit up the Taqueria "Betesda" taco truck right around the corner. You always get the shits when you eat there, but lately they've been putting out some new items on their menu that just keep you coming back. You go back home satisfied, and find a letter waiting for you in the mailbox. You open it, and it says:

"Esteemed Cap Combo clients,

We regret to inform you that our neighborhood locale will be shutting down next week due to low profits. It's such a shame that you didn't support us when we were open. I guess not many of you wanted to eat our burgers despite all of our calls for your support.

With regret,
- Cap Combo management"

-

That's what I feel like every time I hear another one of these dumb third party reps say they won't bring the game that fans actually want until they buy the one nobody wants. Just recently, the producer of Dragon Ball FighterZ - which looks amazing - said that they wanted to see the fans support for Xenoverse 2 - which looks like trash - before bringing the former to the Switch.

Capcom, of course, is the king of this kind of idiocy: DmC was a test, REvelaitons 1 and 2 for Switch are a test, even the freaking Mega Man Legends 3 message boards were a test.

Do you want to play GTA V, a fun game, on the Switch? Or hope that RDR 2, which looks great, can eventually make it? Pay up first, sucker. It'll be $49.99 to buy, install, and uninstall L.A. Noire. Then we'll talk.

Right now, Bethesda seem to be the only ones who understand how to test a market: you bring your quality games, and market them so that people know they can buy them. Then you just have faith in the quality of your product, and let the market speak with clarity. If it fails, well too bad. At least now you really know that games like DOOM, Wolfenstein 2, and Skyrim can't thrive on a Nintendo marketplace. But you can't succeed unless you try.

And if you don't try your best, you can't blame your failure on anything but yourself.
 
Last edited:
#5
Testing the waters with old ports is dumb, but I don't necessarily agree with your metaphor. You're buying the "Nintendo" Switch, not the "Capcom" Switch. If you bought a Capcom Switch then it would be on point. You walk into that Nintendo restaurant and you get Nintendo stuff and maybe they sell burgers too, but if you want burgers, perhaps it's best to go elsewhere (another platform).

Pretty much how it's been since the Wii, maybe n64 in a way.
 

FriedShoes

MLG
Moderator
#6
Testing the waters with old ports is dumb, but I don't necessarily agree with your metaphor. You're buying the "Nintendo" Switch, not the "Capcom" Switch. If you bought a Capcom Switch then it would be on point. You walk into that Nintendo restaurant and you get Nintendo stuff and maybe they sell burgers too, but if you want burgers, perhaps it's best to go elsewhere (another platform).

Pretty much how it's been since the Wii, maybe n64 in a way.
I would be inclined to take this stance as well if those specific publishers havent directly said they would offer these burgers to us if we bought the anchovy pizza.
 

Koenig

The Architect
#7
Although I agree, the underlying problem is that most 3rd party publishers are inherently "stupid" and will as such always use such strategies; forever oblivious to their inherent flaws and subsequently forever unwilling to amend them.

(Don't mind me, I am just bitter)
 
#8
I would be inclined to take this stance as well if those specific publishers havent directly said they would offer these burgers to us if we bought the anchovy pizza.
Maybe I'm just immune. Same company who said RE4 was Gamecube exclusive until just before release announcing a PS2 port.

Pretty much the way it's been ever since the n64, You're essentially buying Nintendo systems for Nintendo games with 3rd parties a distant second with some exceptions. Handhelds seem to be better.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
#9
I am cool with testing the waters so long as expectations are reasonable. Fifa 18 for example is a good toe in the water, and results will give some feedback on how much demand there is on the platform for those types of games. If expectations are unrealistic, then there is little to gain by testing the waters. If the milestone is a million sold, then don't bother, most multi platform games won't sniff that goal on Switch, but perhaps a goal of 250k is perfectly reasonable, and greatly exceeding it would make a statement.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#10
If L.A. Noire runs at a solid framerate with visuals mostly equivalent to the PS4 and Xbox One versions, then it should be supported. Also, L.A. Noire is an amazing game and is anything but a turd.

The Resident Evil example is a head scratching one too. It includes both games with support for local and online co-op, motion controls, and all of the DLC.

If they're sloppy ports with poor framerates, severely downgraded visuals, and missing content, then I'd get your example. However, considering the Switch is selling well, they have no incentive to do that. You also have to think about this: in the past, Nintendo was either neutral (post N64) or hostile (N64 and prior) to the idea of games made for adults. This is why even GREAT games from 3rd parties such as the Prince of Persia trilogy, Eternal Darkness, and the Resident Evil GameCube titles didn't sell well; Nintendo didn't want to use their marketing budget for Mature rated titles since that would have tarnished their reputation (that almost killed their home console market). This is why 3rd party developers are skeptical, they're now just coming around from Nintendo arrogantly saying "we don't need you." Now they actually encourage those games to come to their systems, hence why Rockstar is even supporting the system in the first place.

Also, Capcom is currently porting the RE Engine to the Switch. They actually worked with Nintendo to make sure the console had the minimum specs to meet the engine's requirements.

I am cool with testing the waters so long as expectations are reasonable. Fifa 18 for example is a good toe in the water, and results will give some feedback on how much demand there is on the platform for those types of games. If expectations are unrealistic, then there is little to gain by testing the waters. If the milestone is a million sold, then don't bother, most multi platform games won't sniff that goal on Switch, but perhaps a goal of 250k is perfectly reasonable, and greatly exceeding it would make a statement.

Sent from my SM-G360V using genital warts
FIFA 18 is one of the prime examples of what Jueg is talking about. It's not even the same game as its PS4 and Xbox One counterparts and it got slammed by reviews, deservedly so, as a result.
 
Last edited:

Karkashan

Married to Chrom
#12
Xenoverse 2 is fun. I wouldn't say it then makes your argument invalid or anything, as the games are in different genres. Some pubs don't realize just because there is a shared IP, doesn't mean that if you change game genres people will still love it.

praisegrima
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#13
If L.A. Noire runs at a solid framerate with visuals mostly equivalent to the PS4 and Xbox One versions, then it should be supported. Also, L.A. Noire is an amazing game and is anything but a turd.

The Resident Evil example is a head scratching one too. It includes both games with support for local and online co-op, motion controls, and all of the DLC.

If they're sloppy ports with poor framerates, severely downgraded visuals, and missing content, then I'd get your example. However, considering the Switch is selling well, they have no incentive to do that. You also have to think about this: in the past, Nintendo was either neutral (post N64) or hostile (N64 and prior) to the idea of games made for adults. This is why even GREAT games from 3rd parties such as the Prince of Persia trilogy, Eternal Darkness, and the Resident Evil GameCube titles didn't sell well; Nintendo didn't want to use their marketing budget for Mature rated titles since that would have tarnished their reputation (that almost killed their home console market). This is why 3rd party developers are skeptical, they're now just coming around from Nintendo arrogantly saying "we don't need you." Now they actually encourage those games to come to their systems, hence why Rockstar is even supporting the system in the first place.

Also, Capcom is currently porting the RE Engine to the Switch. They actually worked with Nintendo to make sure the console had the minimum specs to meet the engine's requirements.


FIFA 18 is one of the prime examples of what Jueg is talking about. It's not even the same game as its PS4 and Xbox One counterparts and it got slammed by reviews, deservedly so, as a result.
What I'm getting at is different, though. It's not about the quality of the port, the optimization of the code, or even whether the game in question is good. It's about using one game as a test for another that has nothing to do with it. REvelaitons 1 and 2 are not a good test for whether RE7 would sell well on the Switch, because RE7 is the game it is precisely in reaction to people's criticisms of the Resident Evil franchise up until that point. DmC's poor sales were not evidence that the DMC franchise didn't have a future because it was a departure from what the fans liked about DMC. L.A. Noire is not a good test for GTA because it's nothing like GTA. Same deal with Xenoverse 2: it's nothing like a traditional 2D fighting game, which is what Dragon Ball FighterZ will be.

Basically, whoever is making the decision of asking people to buy a "chocolate" game before bringing the "vanilla" one has tasted neither chocolate nor vanilla and doesn't understand that people liking one has no bearing on people liking the other.

That said, FIFA 18, in my opinion, is a good test. It's basically the same game as any other FIFA, minus some of the quirks that I assume Frostbite's physics added to the game. It should be a good indication of whether Switch gamers want to play a realistic-ish soccer game.

Xenoverse 2 is fun. I wouldn't say it then makes your argument invalid or anything, as the games are in different genres. Some pubs don't realize just because there is a shared IP, doesn't mean that if you change game genres people will still love it.

praisegrima
I bet it is pretty decent, I'm just really unfair with games that I have no personal interest in.
 
#14
What I'm getting at is different, though. It's not about the quality of the port, the optimization of the code, or even whether the game in question is good. It's about using one game as a test for another that has nothing to do with it. REvelaitons 1 and 2 are not a good test for whether RE7 would sell well on the Switch, because RE7 is the game it is precisely in reaction to people's criticisms of the Resident Evil franchise up until that point. DmC's poor sales were not evidence that the DMC franchise didn't have a future because it was a departure from what the fans liked about DMC. L.A. Noire is not a good test for GTA because it's nothing like GTA. Same deal with Xenoverse 2: it's nothing like a traditional 2D fighting game, which is what Dragon Ball FighterZ will be.

Basically, whoever is making the decision of asking people to buy a "chocolate" game before bringing the "vanilla" one has tasted neither chocolate nor vanilla and doesn't understand that people liking one has no bearing on people liking the other.

That said, FIFA 18, in my opinion, is a good test. It's basically the same game as any other FIFA, minus some of the quirks that I assume Frostbite's physics added to the game. It should be a good indication of whether Switch gamers want to play a realistic-ish soccer game.


I bet it is pretty decent, I'm just really unfair with games that I have no personal interest in.
I wouldnt say FIFA is quite a good test either. Not knocking the quality of the game, which is whatever (. If it was being used as solely a barometer for whether FIFA has any staying power on Switch, then it would be fine. But from the sounds of it, its very much a test for whether any sports game will be worth porting over on Switch. Hell, maybe any EA game. Hard to say.
Not sure the game's existence entirely counts either, since its like by contract with FIFA that a FIFA game has to exist on every device imaginable. So idk if EA is even paying attention.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#15
What I'm getting at is different, though. It's not about the quality of the port, the optimization of the code, or even whether the game in question is good. It's about using one game as a test for another that has nothing to do with it. REvelaitons 1 and 2 are not a good test for whether RE7 would sell well on the Switch, because RE7 is the game it is precisely in reaction to people's criticisms of the Resident Evil franchise up until that point. DmC's poor sales were not evidence that the DMC franchise didn't have a future because it was a departure from what the fans liked about DMC. L.A. Noire is not a good test for GTA because it's nothing like GTA. Same deal with Xenoverse 2: it's nothing like a traditional 2D fighting game, which is what Dragon Ball FighterZ will be.

Basically, whoever is making the decision of asking people to buy a "chocolate" game before bringing the "vanilla" one has tasted neither chocolate nor vanilla and doesn't understand that people liking one has no bearing on people liking the other.

That said, FIFA 18, in my opinion, is a good test. It's basically the same game as any other FIFA, minus some of the quirks that I assume Frostbite's physics added to the game. It should be a good indication of whether Switch gamers want to play a realistic-ish soccer game.


I bet it is pretty decent, I'm just really unfair with games that I have no personal interest in.
LA Noire is basically a point and click adventure game (without the pointing and clicking), which seem to have a cult following on Nintendo systems. I do hope Rockstar optimized it to be equivalent to the current gen remaster, and if they do that, I hope it does well.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
#16
LA Noire is basically a point and click adventure game (without the pointing and clicking), which seem to have a cult following on Nintendo systems. I do hope Rockstar optimized it to be equivalent to the current gen remaster, and if they do that, I hope it does well.

Sent from my SM-G950U using genital warts
So...it's just an Adventure game then.
 

GaemzDood

Well-Known Member
#17
So...it's just an Adventure game then.
Adventure titles like Heavy Rain don't really have that much in common with point and click adventure games like Police Quest and Gabriel Knight. LA Noire actually has quite a bit in common with them aside from the shooting sections.
 
Top