The Great CT - Community Thread

Majorbuddah

My real name is Dolemite
if all it was , was the console itself, and with the ps4 being old enough to be priced reasonably, I would agree with you.... but that isn't the issue at all.. the issue is that nintendo has 2 game markets, handheld and console... and combining those means a larger library on a single device, which makes a lot of sense... combining those 2 machines also means making a less powerful machine, but the fact that nintendo games are all but fully realized on wii u spec makes that a mostly insignificant sacrifice....

hybrid aside, I would chose a cheaper system over a mroe expensive one with excessive power that goes beyond nintendo's needs....

it is like buying an f1 car to pick up your groceries with.... the car itself is too pricey, the gas is too pricey, and it offers you no real benefit for its intended use

nintendo games don't look like reality, they look like cartoons, and wii u spec already produces cg cartoon tier graphics

for a NINTENDO system, power is just super low priority at this point.... so long as it is even a slight improvement of the wii u it is fine for their needs

the idea that nintendo has to compete with the ps4 and xbone in power to bring us nintendo games is f'n silly.
Nintendo's games were "fully realized" on SNES. What's silly is the idea that there's some ceiling that Nintendo IP can't elevate beyond.
 

MANGANian

Megalomaniacal Robo-Zombie
Yeah man, what took ya so long. Darn, now I forgot what I wanted to say to @DarkDepths. But yeah, totally just angry that indie devs can make what they want yet limiting their audience while staff at other companies try to appeal games to all ages and yet are forced to do whatever is needed to make that a reality.
La Mulana (a fantastic game btw.... and the music *foams*) was already released for the Wii during its last legs. It can still be bought via the emulator on the Wii U on the Eshop, if I recall correctly. They're the last set of devs you can justify being angry at. Generally most indie devs publish on Nintendo consoles due to being a fan rather than thinking long and hard about business decisions. Others just assign Nintendo platforms as an afterthought or a marketing pitch which they can use to buy kickstarter donations and then change their tune and cancel.

Because Nintendo makes games and when they do something different, people rant a lot that Nintendo isn't innovative an all but when indies do the same, people praise the hell out of them.
Remember my previous post? "You can't please everyone". A lot of what I cut out from that post would've addressed the other arguments you're posting now. Nintendo has a history in gaming. Generally speaking, they're going to be criticised based on the games they develop and the actions they take, whether they deserved it or not. Indie developers are fairly new to the game. They have no history in which they'll be judged, and no one expects anything great from them in the first outing (unless you're Inafune or the Castlevania crew, then you're definitely gonna be destroyed if you fail), so anything that resembles an enjoyable game from a budget they can barely afford would be appreciated as long as it's fun. You don't need a AAA budget to create an amazing game.

I saw you mentioned Fire Emblem: Awakening. While others like to think the game got "casualised", in truth, the game just got streamlined with added mechanics to spice it up. It turned out be a success, but I also believe this had to do with the status of the 3DS at the time and fact that Nintendo actually bothered to market the series.


New Metal Gear co-op where you fight zombies after you get sucked into a worm hole. Wow, those dislikes.

I blame Nintendo
*watches* PFFT, BWAHAHAHHAHAHA! Oh, Konami. I'm more bothered by the trailer using almost every single overused editing that pisses me off to no end. Whoever made this trailer should feel bad. Also for a game like this they should've shown gameplay. Kinda sad, really.
 

Socar

Active Member
La Mulana (a fantastic game btw.... and the music *foams*) was already released for the Wii during its last legs. It can still be bought via the emulator on the Wii U on the Eshop, if I recall correctly. They're the last set of devs you can justify being angry at. Generally most indie devs publish on Nintendo consoles due to being a fan rather than thinking long and hard about business decisions. Others just assign Nintendo platforms as an afterthought or a marketing pitch which they can use to buy kickstarter donations and then change their tune and cancel.


Remember my previous post? "You can't please everyone". A lot of what I cut out from that post would've addressed the other arguments you're posting now. Nintendo has a history in gaming. Generally speaking, they're going to be criticised based on the games they develop and the actions they take, whether they deserved it or not. Indie developers are fairly new to the game. They have no history in which they'll be judged, and no one expects anything great from them in the first outing (unless you're Inafune or the Castlevania crew, then you're definitely gonna be destroyed if you fail), so anything that resembles an enjoyable game from a budget they can barely afford would be appreciated as long as it's fun. You don't need a AAA budget to create an amazing game.

I saw you mentioned Fire Emblem: Awakening. While others like to think the game got "casualised", in truth, the game just got streamlined with added mechanics to spice it up. It turned out be a success, but I also believe this had to do with the status of the 3DS at the time and fact that Nintendo actually bothered to market the series.
You praise La-mulana as a fantastic game, you realize that game has serious flaws right particularly in the controls section? If indie devs are Nintendo fans and not thinking a lot as you say, then why are their games multiplat? Why is it that certain indie devs are still loyal to the PS Vita when the thing is literally dead (atleast outside of Japan?)

And while I agree that you can't please everyone, you still sympathize Indie devs like they are the least problem in the industry while their design decisions such as having poor controls to make the game hard (La Mulana) purposefully killing the player for no reason ( La Mulana) and then making it look like its a masterpiece because of its beautiful graphics when it just doesn't have any fun gameplay whatsoever (Teslagrad, Mechanarium etc). Defending them is one thing but when you encourage them to do whatever they want to do whether it be bad game design fundamentals or good ones (like Cave Story a BETTER game than La Mulana) Is fine for an Indie dev to do that but not fine for some one working on a company (like Tanabe-San for Nintendo for Federation Force).

I love Fire Emblem Awakening and that is the game that got me into the series but Nintendo did try to make FE as global as possible unlike before where FE was originally a niche series for Nintendo. Indies on the other hand are trying to make games but have some.....stubborn attitude that's far worse than any corporate you can think of and expect people to accept them as games? Where's the fun gameplay in Bastion? How the hell Super Meat Boy sold well if the game itself is NOT for everyone? I just feel people are sympathizing Indie devs because they are weak minded than many professionals out there.

Honestly, Kickstarter made the indie scene even worse than before now thanks to Mighty No.9. People will be more cautious over kickstarter games and the ones that aren't hyped much are just gonna fail reaching their goals.
 
You praise La-mulana as a fantastic game, you realize that game has serious flaws right particularly in the controls section? If indie devs are Nintendo fans and not thinking a lot as you say, then why are their games multiplat? Why is it that certain indie devs are still loyal to the PS Vita when the thing is literally dead (atleast outside of Japan?)

And while I agree that you can't please everyone, you still sympathize Indie devs like they are the least problem in the industry while their design decisions such as having poor controls to make the game hard (La Mulana) purposefully killing the player for no reason ( La Mulana) and then making it look like its a masterpiece because of its beautiful graphics when it just doesn't have any fun gameplay whatsoever (Teslagrad, Mechanarium etc). Defending them is one thing but when you encourage them to do whatever they want to do whether it be bad game design fundamentals or good ones (like Cave Story a BETTER game than La Mulana) Is fine for an Indie dev to do that but not fine for some one working on a company (like Tanabe-San for Nintendo for Federation Force).

I love Fire Emblem Awakening and that is the game that got me into the series but Nintendo did try to make FE as global as possible unlike before where FE was originally a niche series for Nintendo. Indies on the other hand are trying to make games but have some.....stubborn attitude that's far worse than any corporate you can think of and expect people to accept them as games? Where's the fun gameplay in Bastion? How the hell Super Meat Boy sold well if the game itself is NOT for everyone? I just feel people are sympathizing Indie devs because they are weak minded than many professionals out there.

Honestly, Kickstarter made the indie scene even worse than before now thanks to Mighty No.9. People will be more cautious over kickstarter games and the ones that aren't hyped much are just gonna fail reaching their goals.
So its wrong that these people are finding success because you, specifically you, don't find their games fun? La Mulana plays fine. Bastion is all voice-over but it also works well and Super Meat Boy is pretty fun too. These games are not influencing the mass videogame industry, especially not Nintendo.

I'm still a bit confused on your stance on Federation Force, are you saying its a badly designed game thats being appropriately shit on or a good designed game thats being shit on for no reason? Either case, does it matter?
 

Socar

Active Member
So its wrong that these people are finding success because you, specifically you, don't find their games fun? La Mulana plays fine. Bastion is all voice-over but it also works well and Super Meat Boy is pretty fun too. These games are not influencing the mass videogame industry, especially not Nintendo.

I'm still a bit confused on your stance on Federation Force, are you saying its a badly designed game thats being appropriately shit on or a good designed game thats being shit on for no reason? Either case, does it matter?
They may not influence the mass media but it DOES encourage indies to follow their own path and do things that ruin the main fun of their games. And no, La Mulana doesn't play fine because if it did something like Cave Story which plays fine, It wouldn't be in my hate list now would it?

As for Federation force, I meant the latter and it would matter because how will the next Metroid end up after this one? People ranted towards Star Fox Zero and that game didn't do well despite it playing well so this game may be an end for the series itself.

Metroid could also come to an end like this as well. All because of the fanbase not being optimistic enough about the game.
 
So two years ago I "lost" my two best friends. One left town and I haven't seen him since, none of my friends have spoke/seen him either. He lives with his parents but he doesn't answer or anything. My other one went to South Korea to teach. For the longest time his plan was to finish up teaching this month and travel a bit before coming back for Christmas.

Now I just learned he took a teaching job in Vietnam in January. I'm happy for him and all that, but shit, I waited two years to see him and now I might have to wait longer. I hate being selfish like this, but when I lost them two boys that's around the time anxiety started and other shit that I may not have said here yet happened. Blah.

Like I said, I'm happy for the guy. I can't think of anything else I know who deserves this more and growing up with him, this is probably the most perfect life he could have asked for.

I'm buying a couch tomorrow, I can see myself just lying there playing Pokemon or Tomb Raider in a trance on it.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
They may not influence the mass media but it DOES encourage indies to follow their own path and do things that ruin the main fun of their games. And no, La Mulana doesn't play fine because if it did something like Cave Story which plays fine, It wouldn't be in my hate list now would it?

As for Federation force, I meant the latter and it would matter because how will the next Metroid end up after this one? People ranted towards Star Fox Zero and that game didn't do well despite it playing well so this game may be an end for the series itself.

Metroid could also come to an end like this as well. All because of the fanbase not being optimistic enough about the game.
For indie devs to feel encouraged to follow their path means that people actually wanted and bought what they made, so what's the harm there? When you talk about these things ruining the fun of their games, you're only talking about your personal taste and experience. For people like me, who love challenging 2D Metroidvanias with large and complex maps, games like La Mulana are a damn miracle (yes, even more than Cave Story, which is not a Metroidvania but a linear shooter-platformer). The part that is fun for me might not be something that you ever thought much about, because that's the nature of subjective tastes, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist for me and the many others that praise that game. The same goes for other games like Machinarium, or The Witness, or whatever: they offer things that are appealing to a niche demographic, and therefore are not easily found in games with larger budgets or from larger companies.

It's a very simple concept. Metroid Prime: Federation Forces may turn out to be appealing to a large number of people, and it may be quite polished in various ways due to the large amount of resources and talent that have gone into creating it, but it does not offer anything I want, so I won't be buying it. Instead, La Mulana 2 was guaranteed from day 1 to offer more of the kind of stuff I love and can't find in many games, so I was happy to back it on Kickstarter.

It's a very large industry with a lot of customers. Games, and developers, can be successful whether they are addressing a large mainstream demographic or a small niche demographic, keeping in mind that the small niche demographic has different desires than a larger meainstream one.
 

Socar

Active Member
So two years ago I "lost" my two best friends. One left town and I haven't seen him since, none of my friends have spoke/seen him either. He lives with his parents but he doesn't answer or anything. My other one went to South Korea to teach. For the longest time his plan was to finish up teaching this month and travel a bit before coming back for Christmas.

Now I just learned he took a teaching job in Vietnam in January. I'm happy for him and all that, but shit, I waited two years to see him and now I might have to wait longer. I hate being selfish like this, but when I lost them two boys that's around the time anxiety started and other shit that I may not have said here yet happened. Blah.

Like I said, I'm happy for the guy. I can't think of anything else I know who deserves this more and growing up with him, this is probably the most perfect life he could have asked for.

I'm buying a couch tomorrow, I can see myself just lying there playing Pokemon or Tomb Raider in a trance on it.
Take my advice, friends are just enemies that don't want to kill you. I mean really, friends get you into trouble, they don't help you as often as you think they are suppose to and frankly, some will just use you for their own benefit.

I don't get why my mom wants me to socialize and just be friends with others when she literally knows that I'm mentally disabled and just can't do it (and if you're wondering what disorder I have, I got autism).

Friends as just as worse as your spouse who will really depend on what sort of attitude he/she is and just how it all turns out.

Yeah its a lack of trust I got, sue me.
 

MANGANian

Megalomaniacal Robo-Zombie
If indie devs are Nintendo fans and not thinking a lot as you say, then why are their games multiplat? Why is it that certain indie devs are still loyal to the PS Vita when the thing is literally dead (atleast outside of Japan?)
You might want to carefully reread what I posted earlier.

You praise La-mulana as a fantastic game, you realize that game has serious flaws right particularly in the controls section?And while I agree that you can't please everyone, you still sympathize Indie devs like they are the least problem in the industry while their design decisions such as having poor controls to make the game hard (La Mulana) purposefully killing the player for no reason ( La Mulana) and then making it look like its a masterpiece because of its beautiful graphics when it just doesn't have any fun gameplay whatsoever (Teslagrad, Mechanarium etc).

Defending them is one thing but when you encourage them to do whatever they want to do whether it be bad game design fundamentals or good ones (like Cave Story a BETTER game than La Mulana) Is fine for an Indie dev to do that but not fine for some one working on a company (like Tanabe-San for Nintendo for Federation Force).
"Serious flaws"? Huh, they could've fooled me. I had no issues with the game control-wise and it was marketed from the start to go out of its way to kill you, and even then I fail to see where those unfair mechanics begin. Cave Story plays differently from La Mulana.

I love Fire Emblem Awakening and that is the game that got me into the series but Nintendo did try to make FE as global as possible unlike before where FE was originally a niche series for Nintendo.

Honestly, Kickstarter made the indie scene even worse than before now thanks to Mighty No.9. People will be more cautious over kickstarter games and the ones that aren't hyped much are just gonna fail reaching their goals.
That's where you're completely wrong. The same thing that happened to FE: Awakening as it did to Persona 4 and Danganronpa. All of them were very niche series which got their big breaks because they were released/ re-released on platforms which hardly had any games at the time and barely any competition. It's a case of being in the right place at the right time. In Fire Emblem's case, the creators developed the game like it was the last of the series, because they were unsure whether it'd be well-received enough to avoid Nintendo locking it away indefinitely, and this time around Nintendo actually heavily promoted the game, unlike the previous games.

Indies on the other hand are trying to make games but have some.....stubborn attitude that's far worse than any corporate you can think of and expect people to accept them as games? Where's the fun gameplay in Bastion? How the hell Super Meat Boy sold well if the game itself is NOT for everyone?
There are actually more failed kickstarter projects than successful ones. Few of them ever get lucky. It's really nothing new. I've replayed Bastion many times, with almost half of the idols on. It's only ever difficult if you don't think about the weapons combinations, the environment and enemy patterns, otherwise the base game is pretty easy. While Bastion is considered "indie", it's as indie as Child of Light is. Super Meat Boy was around when the indie scene was actually becoming a thing and the gaming industry was at its worse. Like I've written earlier, it's a case of being in the right place at the right time. I can't tell you if the game is any good, since I've never had any interest in it and have never tried it.


I just feel people are sympathizing Indie devs because they are weak minded than many professionals out there.
I believe Dark_Depths has already given a reasonable answer to this argument.
 

Karkashan

Married to Chrom
Ah yesh, installing Enderal as we speak. (An entirely new game made using Skyrim's engine. Basically a mod that's its own thing)

Should be an interesting experience.

praisegrima
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
Nintendo's games were "fully realized" on SNES. What's silly is the idea that there's some ceiling that Nintendo IP can't elevate beyond.
never said it couldn't elevate beyond, I said it wasn't a priority.... it is like trying to pump more horsepower into a car that is only used for driving on roads in the suburbs.... you reach a certain point and then other priorities become more important, like making the car more affordable, offering more storage, safety features, etc.... the car can get faster... but why? you aren't racing it, your driving it to the grocery store.... if you overdo the performance it'll suck up more gas and just create another expense.... instead how about putting in some really nice luxury seats, a good sound system, and/or keep it affordable

it isn't that nintendo cannot use better graphics, but that they DON'T NEED THEM... as I said.. Mario Kart 8 is good enough, Splatoon's graphics want for nothing

I would say that when the wii came out, nintendo's priorities for their next system should have been (and largely were), in THIS order

4. Affordability
3. Improved storage options (for patches, dlc, and downloadable games)
2. Improved performance (graphics, resolution, framerate)
1. standardized toolsets (as in hardware shaders, and support for 3rd party engines)

when the wii u came out it moved to standardized tool sets (largely the same even used in ps4 and xbone to this day, THIS was the biggest issue with wii ports btw, not graphical power, but graphical methodology) the performance bump was good enough for everything Nintendo makes, and also put nintendo ahead of the other platform makers for a year, while 32gb isn't a lot of storage, the ability to use an external hdd or sd cards with no cap on game sizes meant that storage was no longer an issue.... The wii u came in a bit too pricey unfortunately, so affordability wasn't well addressed.

after the wii u some other issues became apparent, mainly in marketing, nintendo failed to convey that the wii u wasn't an add-on to the wii, with mainstream media reporting it as such for about 2 years after the system launched, Nintendo also discovered that all of the 3rd party support they were promised by developers for the wii u just dried up and disapeared, showing that nintendo needed better throughput of their own software. The low throughput meant that the wii u and 3ds traded off droughts, and it hurt both systems, but especially the wii u. Also, the gimick they chose wasn't well understood by consumers, they would have been better off just pushing touchscreen and remoteplay... but the promise of varying 2 screen experiences was confusing and poorly delivered upon.

so I would say that nintendo's current priorities should be

4. an easily understood gimick (simplicity and elegance, they really need to nail this)
3. Affordability (both the wii u and 3ds hurt themselves with pricing)
2. throughput (having a steady flow of NINTENDO games)
1. marketing (creating a clear message of what the system is, and why it is worth it)

as for the old priorities, standardized toolsets is DONE, the wii u had them, the 3ds had them, they are there, this is no logner a concern at all... storage options is easy now, if they give the system itself atleast 32gb that covers patches, OS, and a small number of game downloads, for anything more they need to just open up to higher speed/capacity sd cards... like sd xc... very low priority at this point, they just need to continue from where they already were. Affordability is still an issue, and has moved up in priority... that brings us to performance

performance is just not an issue .... nearly every game on ps3 and xbone can be run on a wii u, it isn't performance that holds it back as those games can run on pc at settings that better match the wii u's output... there really isn't anything that ... more importantly, people buy nintendo systems for nintendo games, and those games are not being criticized for looking ugly like they were on the wii, nobody is criticizing the grphics of nintendo's 1st party games on wii u.... hell nobody is really criticizing the graphics of the wii u on any of its games, aside from games that would have looked bad on anything because of the developers own priorities (that treasure hunting f2p game from namco).... SURE performance COULD be better, and SURE, even Nintendo's games could look better.... but it is now at a point in which any difference is negligible for Nintendo's cartoony style.

performance nowadays is all hype, there is nothing coming out now that demands the power being put into it

THAT BEING SAID.... the tegra x1 is ATLEAST twice as powerful as the wii u when it comes to flop performance, it also supports all of the current standards of direct x, open GL, and even vulkan... it supports unreal engine 4, unity, and nearly every other major middleware option.... I say all of that while also understanding that even if the current rumors are true, it is likely the x1's succesor that will be in the nx, not the x1 itself.... and the x1's succesor will likely be about 3 times more powerful than the x1.... putting it actually pretty close to xbone performance, while AGAIN supporting every major middleware and graphics toolset... the NX will almost assuredly be more powerful than the wii u, while also being completely portable (if the rumors are true).... ALSO, Nitnendo should be able to meet out a price point close to $250, considering the current pricing on mobile hardware, Nintendo's willingness to break even on hardware, and the ares they are likely to be conservative with (for example, plastic body instead of metal, and a 720p screen vs the 4k screens that most phones come with now)
 
While playing Splatoon, Overwatch, and Halo 5 (over at my cousin's place), I can't help but miss local multiplayer (in Splatoon's case, good local multiplayer that offers the same modes as the online one). I mean, I just don't get it. It's not as if everyone owns the same system nor do people no longer enjoy playing games together in-person. Hell, in Halo's case, previous installments had local multiplayer so why not keep the feature in? Maybe it's just me but local multiplayer has always been a big feature for me in any multiplayer game so I'd hate to see it go the way of the Dodo

Does anyone know if the circle pad pro XL works with the New 3DS XL? As nice as the nub is on it, I find that I would still prefer to have a second slide pad if given the chance.

Also did I mention that I gave in and got a New 3DS XL?
I don't think so, seeing as the New 3DS XL is different in size that the regular 3DS XL and, with the nub, there wouldn't be a need for Nintendo to make 2 more Circle Pad Pros
 

Majorbuddah

My real name is Dolemite
never said it couldn't elevate beyond, I said it wasn't a priority.... it is like trying to pump more horsepower into a car that is only used for driving on roads in the suburbs.... you reach a certain point and then other priorities become more important, like making the car more affordable, offering more storage, safety features, etc.... the car can get faster... but why? you aren't racing it, your driving it to the grocery store.... if you overdo the performance it'll suck up more gas and just create another expense.... instead how about putting in some really nice luxury seats, a good sound system, and/or keep it affordable

it isn't that nintendo cannot use better graphics, but that they DON'T NEED THEM... as I said.. Mario Kart 8 is good enough, Splatoon's graphics want for nothing

I would say that when the wii came out, nintendo's priorities for their next system should have been (and largely were), in THIS order

4. Affordability
3. Improved storage options (for patches, dlc, and downloadable games)
2. Improved performance (graphics, resolution, framerate)
1. standardized toolsets (as in hardware shaders, and support for 3rd party engines)

when the wii u came out it moved to standardized tool sets (largely the same even used in ps4 and xbone to this day, THIS was the biggest issue with wii ports btw, not graphical power, but graphical methodology) the performance bump was good enough for everything Nintendo makes, and also put nintendo ahead of the other platform makers for a year, while 32gb isn't a lot of storage, the ability to use an external hdd or sd cards with no cap on game sizes meant that storage was no longer an issue.... The wii u came in a bit too pricey unfortunately, so affordability wasn't well addressed.

after the wii u some other issues became apparent, mainly in marketing, nintendo failed to convey that the wii u wasn't an add-on to the wii, with mainstream media reporting it as such for about 2 years after the system launched, Nintendo also discovered that all of the 3rd party support they were promised by developers for the wii u just dried up and disapeared, showing that nintendo needed better throughput of their own software. The low throughput meant that the wii u and 3ds traded off droughts, and it hurt both systems, but especially the wii u. Also, the gimick they chose wasn't well understood by consumers, they would have been better off just pushing touchscreen and remoteplay... but the promise of varying 2 screen experiences was confusing and poorly delivered upon.

so I would say that nintendo's current priorities should be

4. an easily understood gimick (simplicity and elegance, they really need to nail this)
3. Affordability (both the wii u and 3ds hurt themselves with pricing)
2. throughput (having a steady flow of NINTENDO games)
1. marketing (creating a clear message of what the system is, and why it is worth it)

as for the old priorities, standardized toolsets is DONE, the wii u had them, the 3ds had them, they are there, this is no logner a concern at all... storage options is easy now, if they give the system itself atleast 32gb that covers patches, OS, and a small number of game downloads, for anything more they need to just open up to higher speed/capacity sd cards... like sd xc... very low priority at this point, they just need to continue from where they already were. Affordability is still an issue, and has moved up in priority... that brings us to performance

performance is just not an issue .... nearly every game on ps3 and xbone can be run on a wii u, it isn't performance that holds it back as those games can run on pc at settings that better match the wii u's output... there really isn't anything that ... more importantly, people buy nintendo systems for nintendo games, and those games are not being criticized for looking ugly like they were on the wii, nobody is criticizing the grphics of nintendo's 1st party games on wii u.... hell nobody is really criticizing the graphics of the wii u on any of its games, aside from games that would have looked bad on anything because of the developers own priorities (that treasure hunting f2p game from namco).... SURE performance COULD be better, and SURE, even Nintendo's games could look better.... but it is now at a point in which any difference is negligible for Nintendo's cartoony style.

performance nowadays is all hype, there is nothing coming out now that demands the power being put into it

THAT BEING SAID.... the tegra x1 is ATLEAST twice as powerful as the wii u when it comes to flop performance, it also supports all of the current standards of direct x, open GL, and even vulkan... it supports unreal engine 4, unity, and nearly every other major middleware option.... I say all of that while also understanding that even if the current rumors are true, it is likely the x1's succesor that will be in the nx, not the x1 itself.... and the x1's succesor will likely be about 3 times more powerful than the x1.... putting it actually pretty close to xbone performance, while AGAIN supporting every major middleware and graphics toolset... the NX will almost assuredly be more powerful than the wii u, while also being completely portable (if the rumors are true).... ALSO, Nitnendo should be able to meet out a price point close to $250, considering the current pricing on mobile hardware, Nintendo's willingness to break even on hardware, and the ares they are likely to be conservative with (for example, plastic body instead of metal, and a 720p screen vs the 4k screens that most phones come with now)
you keep insisting that making weak ass systems is a "smart" move when all it does is continue to alienate ninendo from the mainstream developers who push out like 80% of games sold every year. then you say "people buy nintendo to play nintendo games" as if there was anything else to play on the system.

they can build a system that's technically on par with the competition and still make nintendo games. they're just insistent on low balling the industry by making the cheapest hardware possible and strapping it to a gimmick. that's been their gameplan on the console front for a decade now and it just leads to weak, unsupported, overpriced hardware.
 

Karkashan

Married to Chrom
So, I read the Bleach ending.

So, just like the Naruto one the author chooses the "relationship" with the one-sided infatuation because of big breasts and ignores the actual relationship he spent years developing while at the same time designing ugly looking kids and having an ending that was so lackluster I would've rather it had gotten cancelled before reaching that point.

I think I'm pretty much done for the most part following ongoing series. I get too invested when I have time to think about things and interact with the fandom. So much easier to get over disappointment when the whole thing can be read at once.

praisegrima
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
you keep insisting that making weak ass systems is a "smart" move when all it does is continue to alienate ninendo from the mainstream developers who push out like 80% of games sold every year. then you say "people buy nintendo to play nintendo games" as if there was anything else to play on the system.

they can build a system that's technically on par with the competition and still make nintendo games. they're just insistent on low balling the industry by making the cheapest hardware possible and strapping it to a gimmick. that's been their gameplan on the console front for a decade now and it just leads to weak, unsupported, overpriced hardware.
even when the wii u has the multiplats, they don't sell on it... wii had call of duty, wii u had 2 of them as well if I remember correctly... wii u also had batman, mass effect, etc... none of them sold... but FAR more importantly... NOBODY BUYS Nintendo systems for 3rd party games... that battle is over... even if the nx had all of those games people who own an nx would likely also own a different system, and would buy the games on that system instead... because the ps4 and xbone have been out for a few years now, and the online communities are already built... having parity wont sell, it is what differentiates that sells.

about the whole weak system thing... there are a few points...

1. a hybrid at beyond wii u spec is NOT weak, remember that a hybrid has to be fully portable, and portable power is less than stationary power.. it is to nintendo's advantage that there is no REAL competition there... sony is done with handhelds, ms wont even try, and smartphone games are casual, and even when they are not they need to scale to all manner of devices, so they never really push the envelope, and that isn't even getting into the limitations of power that are made when the device is not a dedicated gaming device.

2. Nintendo cannot do business in the way sony and MS do... sony and ms will sell consoles at a huge loss because they know they can offset the loss with other departments... nintendo has no other departments to leverage... in addition to that, Nintendo is a fiscally conservative company, and the shareholders would loose their shit if nintendo dumped billions on hardware losses... it doesn't make sense for their corporate culture

3. more power is MORE EXPENSIVE... not only for the company but for the gamer.... nintendo doesn't need more power, so why should they spend for it, and why should I, as a nintendo gamer, be forced to pay a much higher pricetag for a system so that it can have the power that it doesn't need for its own games, but also allows it in on the multiplat train... which I do not need because I, like nearly all current gamers own multiple systems (in my case a pc and a nintendo system) it is like spending extra on a car for it to have a sweet stereo option when I am plannign on replacing the stereo with something else anyways... that is just a waste of money... and for what? to check a box?

so AGAIN...

if the rumors are correct than the nx will be the msot powerful handheld out, and at the same time a console that is perfectly adequate to run every game on the market (outside of high end VR) so long as the developer cares to port it... as the x1 can handle the most modern versions (putting it beyond ps4 and xbone in shader support btw) of direct x, and open gl, as well as the current builds of unreal engine and unity... the system could be made more powerful, but at a high premium, and it is unnecessary power.... likewise the system could be made console only, and then made more powerful as well, and for a somewhat reasonable price.... but they aren't going to match serpico and ps4 neo, so who gives a fuck.... and by not taking the hybrid route nintendo has to instead produce 2 systems, a handheld and a console, when it makes far more sense to make 1 that plays the games of all.

saying nintendo should play like their competition is like saying a 5'2" basketball player should try and play like shaq.... not only will he never measure up for that style, but he'll miss out on his own advantages by focusing on the wrong area

lets use you for an example... no way in hell you are going to be nintendo only... even if it was just as powerful as the competition... you know it, and I know it... it wouldn't happen... so why does the nx need to run call of duty, when you already have hardware that does? Why wouldn't you want to pay less for something that achieves the graphical prowess necessary to realize nintendo's cartoony vision. Or even pay the same amount, but have a system that does somethign the others cannot... be taken on the go as a fully capable handheld too.
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
So, I read the Bleach ending.

So, just like the Naruto one the author chooses the "relationship" with the one-sided infatuation because of big breasts and ignores the actual relationship he spent years developing while at the same time designing ugly looking kids and having an ending that was so lackluster I would've rather it had gotten cancelled before reaching that point.

I think I'm pretty much done for the most part following ongoing series. I get too invested when I have time to think about things and interact with the fandom. So much easier to get over disappointment when the whole thing can be read at once.

praisegrima
bleach sucks since the second half of the shinigama arc (which was like the 2nd REAL arc of the series)... Naruto began sucking when all of the focus shifted to Sasuke and all of the strategy and plannign went out the window in favor of "but I have even moar powah... because I too have uchiha eyes, which is apraently the ultimate source of all powah... for no apparent reason whatsoever."

Hunter X Hunter is WAY better, as is One Piece (One Piece is just as ridiculous, but it fits more with the whacky tone, while HXH is just so much smarter)

outside of shounen manga, have you considered more serious stuff? seinen stuff, like Berserk, which doesn't have to play to younger audiences and never feels like it is being made for the shipper fans of the series.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
it is like trying to pump more horsepower into a car that is only used for driving on roads in the suburbs.... you reach a certain point and then other priorities become more important, like making the car more affordable, offering more storage, safety features, etc.... the car can get faster... but why? you aren't racing it, your driving it to the grocery store.... if you overdo the performance it'll suck up more gas and just create another expense.... instead how about putting in some really nice luxury seats, a good sound system, and/or keep it affordable
Ah, how I love a good car metaphor. I would think of it this way on power and speed - you can't move faster than a Nissan GTR on a public road. It's about as fast 0-60 mph as a Bugatti Veyron. The GTR costs $100K, while the Bugatti is $1.5 million. So why buy a Veyron, where you'll never use all of its power on a public road? It's because you want people to know you drive a Bugatti. And if you're an oil billionaire, sure, why not. But there is no status symbol to owning a powerful videogame console. No one gives a crap.

And when you get down to it, you'll never even need to go GTR-level fast; you'll get as much real-world speed out of a WRX for $30K, and as much real-world fun out of a Miata for $24K. And that's the market Nintendo aims for. They want to appeal to the broadest base possible by providing as much power as practical at a lower price point.

One can argue the wisdom of that, of course. But they have to argue how Nintendo making their own PS4 Neo is actually going to sell to the market that already is invested in buying a PS4 Neo or XB Astrological Sign. Nintendo is like Mazda. They're a company that simply doesn't have the resources that a company like VW has to throw at their vanity Bugatti project. "But I want them to be like that" is not an answer to this situation, either.

[This all assumes power is the problem. As you've noted, it's not. Games like BioShock Infinite and Tomb Raider and Far Cry could have easily run on Wii U. But they didn't come, because the devs and publishers didn't think they would sell. And they were probably right.]
All right let's try this again.

I get to meet @Shoulder tonight woot woot!!!:mgrin:
Yeah, I'm jelly. This week had to work out the way it did (and it's a good thing for me), but I'm still jelly.
 

Socar

Active Member
"Serious flaws"? Huh, they could've fooled me. I had no issues with the game control-wise and it was marketed from the start to go out of its way to kill you, and even then I fail to see where those unfair mechanics begin. Cave Story plays differently from La Mulana.
Ok let's look at all the flaws that really is the problem with the game before you defend the game.

1. Purposefully killing the player if the player makes OR takes a few steps. Those traps that fall you to death/waste your progression time, unfair enemy placements which can cause rapid screen wrapping

2. Too much of backtracking with cryptic riddles that don't even help you that often. Not even actual people help you as well.

3. Stingy process of getting money/resources & health.....unlike many Action-Adventure games out there where its the exact opposite.

4. Speaking of health, there are ONLY two ways to get health and BOTH of them are POORLY designed. Either go to the hot spring (which is pointless because its the same thing as saving where in the original, if you save, your health is fully healed when you load the game) and fully filling the blue bar by killing enemies which increases VERY slowly until you get an item late game(The remake is even worse as you need to get green spheres to fully heal it). This means that you can't casually play the game and can't get health from enemies like better games like..oh idk, METROID?!?

Seriously, what game forces you to sacrifice a LOT of your health inorder to make progress. That right there is a bad game design because you don't compensate for that health loss one bit.

Now in your defense, you can say fairies can help but really, you can't get them until later on and it still won't fix the issue that much seeing as they can only appear at certain points in the game

5. Situations where you are stuck and can't do anything about it forcing you to teleport back or reset the game.

6. You can't record a lot of hints. You have to manually write them through a note pad or an ACTUAL note pad!

7. Game often punishes you when you try to take risks only when there are situations where you don't know what to do, the game will kill you very often. This method is fine but it happens very often in the game which can really get frustrating.

I don't care about the other rants I made but if you seriously think that the game doesn't have unfair game mechanics even after what I mentioned, either your opinion is subjective or that your argument of my previous rants remain pointless since you're encouraging them to do designs that are flawed compared to other devs who atleast try to improve on their design flaws.
 

Karkashan

Married to Chrom
bleach sucks since the second half of the shinigama arc (which was like the 2nd REAL arc of the series)... Naruto began sucking when all of the focus shifted to Sasuke and all of the strategy and plannign went out the window in favor of "but I have even moar powah... because I too have uchiha eyes, which is apraently the ultimate source of all powah... for no apparent reason whatsoever."

Hunter X Hunter is WAY better, as is One Piece (One Piece is just as ridiculous, but it fits more with the whacky tone, while HXH is just so much smarter)

outside of shounen manga, have you considered more serious stuff? seinen stuff, like Berserk, which doesn't have to play to younger audiences and never feels like it is being made for the shipper fans of the series.
I hate Berserk. Just something about it pisses me off to high heaven.

Ubel Blatt or Vinland Saga? I like those.

praisegrima
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
Ok let's look at all the flaws that really is the problem with the game before you defend the game.

1. Purposefully killing the player if the player makes OR takes a few steps. Those traps that fall you to death/waste your progression time, unfair enemy placements which can cause rapid screen wrapping

2. Too much of backtracking with cryptic riddles that don't even help you that often. Not even actual people help you as well.

3. Stingy process of getting money/resources & health.....unlike many Action-Adventure games out there where its the exact opposite.

4. Speaking of health, there are ONLY two ways to get health and BOTH of them are POORLY designed. Either go to the hot spring (which is pointless because its the same thing as saving where in the original, if you save, your health is fully healed when you load the game) and fully filling the blue bar by killing enemies which increases VERY slowly until you get an item late game(The remake is even worse as you need to get green spheres to fully heal it). This means that you can't casually play the game and can't get health from enemies like better games like..oh idk, METROID?!?

Seriously, what game forces you to sacrifice a LOT of your health inorder to make progress. That right there is a bad game design because you don't compensate for that health loss one bit.

Now in your defense, you can say fairies can help but really, you can't get them until later on and it still won't fix the issue that much seeing as they can only appear at certain points in the game

5. Situations where you are stuck and can't do anything about it forcing you to teleport back or reset the game.

6. You can't record a lot of hints. You have to manually write them through a note pad or an ACTUAL note pad!

7. Game often punishes you when you try to take risks only when there are situations where you don't know what to do, the game will kill you very often. This method is fine but it happens very often in the game which can really get frustrating.

I don't care about the other rants I made but if you seriously think that the game doesn't have unfair game mechanics even after what I mentioned, either your opinion is subjective or that your argument of my previous rants remain pointless since you're encouraging them to do designs that are flawed compared to other devs who atleast try to improve on their design flaws.
what you just referenced were not flaws, but design choices, you need to consider the possibility that the game simply wasn't made for YOU... I didn't pick up the game, because that stuff frustrates me as well... but I know people who LOVE that... so instead of buying the game and then complaining about what I didn't liek about it which is also what the game is meant to be, I simply learned what the game was and said "no thank you"

if all games were made for all people the gaming landscape would suck ass
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
I hate Berserk. Just something about it pisses me off to high heaven.

Ubel Blatt or Vinland Saga? I like those.

praisegrima
how could you hate berserk? oh well, to each their own

my current favorite mangas all tend to be in this very specific genre: guy/girl-from-japan-reincarnates-or-is-transfered-to-fantasy-world-and-has-cheat-ability

Re:Monster
Re:Zero
The New Gate
Gate
Mushoku Tensei
Knights and Magic

there are COUNTLESS varieties and variations of this very specific genre that I am unhealthily addicted to....

most of them are based on light/web novels too

Mushoku Tensei was f'n amazing, and Re:Zero is a really good anime right now, though the main character pisses so many people off
 

MANGANian

Megalomaniacal Robo-Zombie
Are any of you guys decent at making 3d models, or textures, by any chance?
Not sure why I'm posting unhelpful comments to you (of course I know why. I just want you all to know. Oh ego, what an interesting thing), but I'm sorta decent at creating 3D models. I'm not efficient at it though, and I haven't touched Blender in 7 years since I've learned to use it. I've probably forgotten how. I can direct you to helpful tutorials if you want depending on the software I'm assuming you have.

So, I read the Bleach ending.

So, just like the Naruto one the author chooses the "relationship" with the one-sided infatuation because of big breasts and ignores the actual relationship he spent years developing while at the same time designing ugly looking kids and having an ending that was so lackluster I would've rather it had gotten cancelled before reaching that point.

I think I'm pretty much done for the most part following ongoing series. I get too invested when I have time to think about things and interact with the fandom. So much easier to get over disappointment when the whole thing can be read at once.

praisegrima
The ending disappointed me so badly. To add salt to the wound he ended up with Orihime, which he had zero chemistry with. Made even less sense when Kubo himself stated he had little interest in developing intimate relationships with his characters. With how the chapters prior went I'm pretty sure Kubo was forced to conclude the ending in a few chapters after abusing the system so long with his snail-pacing. At this point it would've been a better ending to just kill off all the characters and let the villain win for once like that one amazing chapter in Shaman King.

how could you hate berserk? oh well, to each their own

my current favorite mangas all tend to be in this very specific genre: guy/girl-from-japan-reincarnates-or-is-transfered-to-fantasy-world-and-has-cheat-ability

Re:Monster
Re:Zero
The New Gate
Gate
Mushoku Tensei
Knights and Magic

there are COUNTLESS varieties and variations of this very specific genre that I am unhealthily addicted to....

most of them are based on light/web novels too

Mushoku Tensei was f'n amazing, and Re:Zero is a really good anime right now, though the main character pisses so many people off
Subaru is a 100% frustrating character. He's slow to figure things out even though he's supposedly genre-savvy and never ask the questions that matter the first time he's faced with something he knows nothing about. He just ignores it until it kills him. Despite all that the anime is really well done, except the Mansion arc, which was clearly paced poorly to fill the episode quota.

I also don't understand how anyone can relate to Subaru at all. His stupidity knows no bounds that it's almost unreal. They better make a season 2 of this.

Patiently waiting for main characters to starting dying left and right in JoJo.

The level design of this game looks so good it's nostalgic.
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
Speaking of new furniture I had to get a new bookcase since one in my library decided it would be a good idea to just go ahead and collapse.

praisegrima
we got a new sectional couch, but we had never had one before.. they completely change the layout of your space, so in adapting for that we decided to get a new TV stand a book case, and more, and then moved a lot of other stuff around... we ended up becomign addicted to cube storage... so basically we have cub storage as our TV stand next to a cube stoarge bookshelf, which steps down to a smaller cub stoarge that we will put our printer on...



that isn't a complete pic, there is a 2x2 cube storage to the left of the 2x4 now
-----------------
in unrelated news there is a mr. robot game from telltale on ios and android now... the whole game is set in a fake messaging app... interesting
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.telltalegames.exfiltration
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mr.-robot-1.51exfiltrati0n.ipa/id1138484918?mt=8
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
Not sure why I'm posting unhelpful comments to you (of course I know why. I just want you all to know. Oh ego, what an interesting thing), but I'm sorta decent at creating 3D models. I'm not efficient at it though, and I haven't touched Blender in 7 years since I've learned to use it. I've probably forgotten how. I can direct you to helpful tutorials if you want depending on the software I'm assuming you have.


The ending disappointed me so badly. To add salt to the wound he ended up with Orihime, which he had zero chemistry with. Made even less sense when Kubo himself stated he had little interest in developing intimate relationships with his characters. With how the chapters prior went I'm pretty sure Kubo was forced to conclude the ending in a few chapters after abusing the system so long with his snail-pacing. At this point it would've been a better ending to just kill off all the characters and let the villain win for once like that one amazing chapter in Shaman King.



Subaru is a 100% frustrating character. He's slow to figure things out even though he's supposedly genre-savvy and never ask the questions that matter the first time he's faced with something he knows nothing about. He just ignores it until it kills him. Despite all that the anime is really well done, except the Mansion arc, which was clearly paced poorly to fill the episode quota.

I also don't understand how anyone can relate to Subaru at all. His stupidity knows no bounds that it's almost unreal. They better make a season 2 of this.

Patiently waiting for main characters to starting dying left and right in JoJo.

The level design of this game looks so good it's nostalgic.
I relate to subaru, but emotionally, not intellectually lol I think it makes most sense when he breaks down and talks about how he hates himself to lem, as she keeps reiterating that he is her hero.... I think a lot of his stupid choices come from denial and self doubt... he is traumatized (many times over) and he feels useless so he puts on a false bravado to cover it... only recently does he seem to be growing...

but I LOVE the way the anime is handled
 

DarkDepths

Your friendly neighbourhood robot overlord
Not sure why I'm posting unhelpful comments to you (of course I know why. I just want you all to know. Oh ego, what an interesting thing), but I'm sorta decent at creating 3D models. I'm not efficient at it though, and I haven't touched Blender in 7 years since I've learned to use it. I've probably forgotten how. I can direct you to helpful tutorials if you want depending on the software I'm assuming you have.
Thanks, but that's actually not the reason I ask. I'm working on something in my spare time, and I just don't have the time to do all the assets I need in a reasonable time frame.
 

Socar

Active Member
what you just referenced were not flaws, but design choices, you need to consider the possibility that the game simply wasn't made for YOU... I didn't pick up the game, because that stuff frustrates me as well... but I know people who LOVE that... so instead of buying the game and then complaining about what I didn't liek about it which is also what the game is meant to be, I simply learned what the game was and said "no thank you"

if all games were made for all people the gaming landscape would suck ass
So you're saying that Kirby, Mario and Pokemon can't be played by all types of people?

I get that its not for me, but the design choices are so niche to the point that a lot of companies wouldn't be able to risk something like that even Nintendo(They even made a mode lower than Casual for Fates). Hence the term handholding to just play it safe. Just give the difficulty option which doesn't harm anyone really and its good to go.

It also helps that I LOVE the setting for La-Mulana as its worlds are very imaginative and creative. I can experience that better and like the game better had there been a handholding option that does all the hardwork playtime for me only to experience the other aspects of the game because that also counts. Sure, gameplay is the whole point of the game but for those who aren't into insane frustration, handholding can help them like the game better.

If Awakening didn't have casual mode, I doubt that I would be able to get into Fire Emblem. Before Awakening, do you honestly think that FE would have sold well as it did now?

The main problem I have is people constantly telling me to play something else instead of just sticking to Nintendo games and because of that constant bicker, I'm forced to play stuff like these games and if I don't like them, I can bicker and say that I don't like them and that's that.
 

Socar

Active Member
So......Federation Force seems to get a mixed reviews as kinda expected seeing how reviewers these days aren't honest as they should be. Heck, even the reviewer here didn't do any justice to his review either.

I'm getting the game seeing as how it doesn't look like a bad game at all.
 

Roy Kappa

Kirbyfan391 from IGN
Does this forum not have a newcomer section lol. And what does "R.A.P." stand for? Really Awesome Post?
:msrs: <<< y da fuq is this called a Mario icon instead of a luigi one.


But anyways, hi everyone. Figured I'd come here since I have nothing to lose anyways....right? ;)
 
Did you really get a new couch? I've been thinking about doing the same but furniture is just too darn expensive... my current couch isn't that bad...
Well, new for me. The women selling it was moving to Ontario and didn't want to bring that couch halfway across the country.

I suspect it's only a year or two old. 100% nicer than the one I had. The way I look at it, I could buy that for 100 dollars or go to a furniture store and pay 1500 for a slighter newer one.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
Does this forum not have a newcomer section lol. And what does "R.A.P." stand for? Really Awesome Post?
:msrs: <<< y da fuq is this called a Mario icon instead of a luigi one.


But anyways, hi everyone. Figured I'd come here since I have nothing to lose anyways....right? ;)
Your in the right spot for a newcomer Kirby! Welcome!

RAP is ridiculously awesome post. And this :msrs: that's the serious helmet :msrs:

If you need anything here feel free to ask @FriedShoes @Superfakerbros @juegosmajicos or myself. Enjoy and post til your hearts content. The big thing we don't condone is devolving the conversation to name callin. If you look around you can get the feels:mgrin:
 
So you're saying that Kirby, Mario and Pokemon can't be played by all types of people?

I get that its not for me, but the design choices are so niche to the point that a lot of companies wouldn't be able to risk something like that even Nintendo(They even made a mode lower than Casual for Fates). Hence the term handholding to just play it safe. Just give the difficulty option which doesn't harm anyone really and its good to go.

It also helps that I LOVE the setting for La-Mulana as its worlds are very imaginative and creative. I can experience that better and like the game better had there been a handholding option that does all the hardwork playtime for me only to experience the other aspects of the game because that also counts. Sure, gameplay is the whole point of the game but for those who aren't into insane frustration, handholding can help them like the game better.

If Awakening didn't have casual mode, I doubt that I would be able to get into Fire Emblem. Before Awakening, do you honestly think that FE would have sold well as it did now?

The main problem I have is people constantly telling me to play something else instead of just sticking to Nintendo games and because of that constant bicker, I'm forced to play stuff like these games and if I don't like them, I can bicker and say that I don't like them and that's that.
No, he's saying if the entire gaming landscape were just developed under the design philososphy of "everyone should be able to play this game no problems just tap a button" it would get pretty damn dull. You need to cut yourself away from these people that tell you you need to be playing these other games, or better explain to them that you are looking for a very casual, relaxed experience, and care more about atmosphere than gameplay. An experience that Nintendo is often able to provide. Being forced to play games sounds ridiculous, lol, how does that work?
Does this forum not have a newcomer section lol. And what does "R.A.P." stand for? Really Awesome Post?
:msrs: <<< y da fuq is this called a Mario icon instead of a luigi one.


But anyways, hi everyone. Figured I'd come here since I have nothing to lose anyways....right? ;)
@juegosmajicos unlock this guy's profile stuff. I think we do have an "Introduce Yourself" thread, but screw that noise.
 
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