The Nintendo Next Gen system is real and has a name... NX

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
Wired has an analysis of Iwata's previous statements on hardware architecture and how it potentially effects NX.

http://www.wired.com/2015/03/nintendo-nx-analysis/

I'm not sure if it all adds together precisely how they've guessed, but there is reasonably compelling evidence to believe:

-Wii U's architecture will live on, albeit modified
-the next hardware shown off will most likely be a handheld
-it will likely be able to stream to a TV
-NX is not just one device
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
Wired has an analysis of Iwata's previous statements on hardware architecture and how it potentially effects NX.

http://www.wired.com/2015/03/nintendo-nx-analysis/

I'm not sure if it all adds together precisely how they've guessed, but there is reasonably compelling evidence to believe:

-Wii U's architecture will live on, albeit modified
-the next hardware shown off will most likely be a handheld
-it will likely be able to stream to a TV
-NX is not just one device
I only disagree about the idea of abandoning 3DS.

I think the first NX is going to have Wii U inside, but later, a smaller NX will have 3DS inside.

Backwards compatibility is a strong Nintendo feature.
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
Wired has an analysis of Iwata's previous statements on hardware architecture and how it potentially effects NX.

http://www.wired.com/2015/03/nintendo-nx-analysis/

I'm not sure if it all adds together precisely how they've guessed, but there is reasonably compelling evidence to believe:

-Wii U's architecture will live on, albeit modified
-the next hardware shown off will most likely be a handheld
-it will likely be able to stream to a TV
-NX is not just one device
So N & X
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
I only disagree about the idea of abandoning 3DS.

I think the first NX is going to have Wii U inside, but later, a smaller NX will have 3DS inside.

Backwards compatibility is a strong Nintendo feature.
It may only be a matter of abandoning the 3DS in name...
Maybe they find a way that it is backwards compatible with both?
...indeed they may. A short trip down memory lane - go to E3 2010, where we learned from developers that the 3DS possessed processing power that "far exceeds" the Wii. The 3DS then became home to games such as Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, which began life as Tri on the Wii, then was built from there onto the 3DS, and was subsequently ported to Wii U. Smash was built with both in mind; 3D World on Wii U sported early visuals that looked quite like 3D Land on 3DS; the New 3DS is getting a port of the Wii's Xenoblade. Etc.

There is already compatibility between the 3DS, Wii, and by extension, Wii U (which basically kept some Wii guts to make the transition easy). It wouldn't surprise me if the 3DS, on a chipset level, was basically made to be a "mobile Wii" (which required a different CPU for the form factor and cooling properties) with more modern shader support.

Which neatly brings us to the recent past, where we heard rumblings that AMD will supply Nintendo's next round of hardware. People assume it'll be an x86 CPU, but that's viewing things through a PS4 and One lens. Why would Nintendo go the x86 route when they already have experience with making ARM on mobile devices, the most recent of which can already handle the PPC programming of the Wii (which lives on into the Wii U)?

I'm not yet sold on this (this is a lot of riffing, not writing a melody), but the NX very well may use an ARM chip that is a good enough fit that it can handle Wii U's Espresso - not for pop in and play disc back compatibility, but for porting like XBC on 3DS.

Then again, if the NX has a bit more power under the hood, it may even be able to simply emulate Wii and 3DS games.
Perhaps. It's entirely possible that we've all been looking at this the wrong way. Everyone has been thinking Nintendo will just go to making one catch-all hybrid device.

Instead, they may have a unified architecture with several pieces of hardware. Think of it like the 3DS to New 3DS. You have one device you sell cheaper, and it plays all (or most) of the vital games, but it's a touch slow and utilitarian. Then you have your newer device (like the New 3DS) that boots quicker and has a sleaker design aesthetic. And then you have yet another device that is a hairy-chested pixel pushing monster, the device from which all other games get scaled down from.
 

Ex-Actarus

Well-Known Member
Wired has an analysis of Iwata's previous statements on hardware architecture and how it potentially effects NX.

http://www.wired.com/2015/03/nintendo-nx-analysis/

I'm not sure if it all adds together precisely how they've guessed, but there is reasonably compelling evidence to believe:

-Wii U's architecture will live on, albeit modified
-the next hardware shown off will most likely be a handheld
-it will likely be able to stream to a TV
-NX is not just one device
A Wii U architecture is a NO GO for me. First this would contrary to the AMD processor rumors. 2nd, The Wii U was so dissed by 3rd party that would REALLY a bad start.

A Handheld ? Possible.

Stream to TV ? I agree. Again something in line of the Nvidia Sheild.

NX not just one device ? That's what I believe as well... As Iphone and Ipad ? Maybe.


@sjmartin79 , honestly, forget about backward compatibility. Both Sony and Microsoft moved on. Nintendo will do the same thing. Backward compatibility makes just the development of a next gen console more complicated and more expensive. Besides, there is way more business opportunity for Nintendo with a service as Playstation Now.
 

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
Of corse this NX will have something in common with Wii U, I mean I'm almost certain it will be backwards compatible....

How much this commonality has to do with the actual architeture that will power the NX, whatever the hell it is, is unknown at this time....

Take a guess guys, but my guess is that the only thing NX will have to do with Wii U is the fact that it will play Wii U games, that much is almost for sure going to happen, just based on Nintendos past console history....
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
Perhaps. It's entirely possible that we've all been looking at this the wrong way. Everyone has been thinking Nintendo will just go to making one catch-all hybrid device.

Instead, they may have a unified architecture with several pieces of hardware. Think of it like the 3DS to New 3DS. You have one device you sell cheaper, and it plays all (or most) of the vital games, but it's a touch slow and utilitarian. Then you have your newer device (like the New 3DS) that boots quicker and has a sleaker design aesthetic. And then you have yet another device that is a hairy-chested pixel pushing monster, the device from which all other games get scaled down from.
This is what I've been thinking for some time. I imagine the New 3DS is already equipped to handle Nintendo OS, and it will be able to play drastically pared down versions of future Nintendo games. The NX could very well be like a NEW Wii U, essentially just a beefed up version of the WiiU, that would be able to play any game the NEW 3DS and the WiiU can. Most of all, I definitely don't think it'll be a "generational leap" ahead of the WiiU, graphically out functionally. Rather, it will be a"half-step" that adds to the half step the WiiU was in terms of blurring the lines between a portable and a home console system. In other words, I think the NX will essentially be the WiiU and 3DS put together, made into a family, and given wings.
 

Ex-Actarus

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I'm not sure we're going to get Pokken, I bet no.

FE x SMT, hmmm, I hope so, I agree that it's not cancelled yet, but Int. Sys. is working on 3DS FE and I don't know if they're able to sort two FE games out. I know that Atlus is involved, but... It'd be sad. I want to play a Wii U FE.

About Animal Crossing, I don't think it's a good idea. Animal Crossing sells tons on 3DS and as a Animal Crossing player I'd say that it's a handheld game. I know GC and Wii both got it, but Animal Crossing is like Pokemon.

Paper Mario I believe they're developing it right now.

I also expect a big Retro game announcement soon.
I'm not sure about Retro... I think as EAD ( the Mario team ), they moved on the next gen console. If we have 1 game from Retro on Wii U, then that means Retro has 2 teams ( something GAF highly suspects but was never confirmed by Nintendo or Retro ).

You bring a VERY good point about FE x SMT ; Intelligent System and Atlus are probably too busy ( the Fire Emblem 3DS and Persona 5 ). Besides, if Intelligent System is working on another game, I wish it's Advance Wars :) !

A Paper Mario ? Actually we had a Paper Mario on every home console since the N64, but then again the Wii U is such commercial failure. Maybe Nintendo wants to move on to the next gen platform ?

Anyway, I'm pretty sure Metroid Prime 4 will be a NX launch title :). IMO, the game was initially planned for the Wii U, but then pushed to NX.
 

Ex-Actarus

Well-Known Member
Of corse this NX will have something in common with Wii U, I mean I'm almost certain it will be backwards compatible....

How much this commonality has to do with the actual architeture that will power the NX, whatever the hell it is, is unknown at this time....

Take a guess guys, but my guess is that the only thing NX will have to do with Wii U is the fact that it will play Wii U games, that much is almost for sure going to happen, just based on Nintendos past console history....
With Nintendo recent move into Mobile market, I think we can throw History outside the window now :) !

That make NO BUSINESS sense IMO to go for backward compatibility. You want to play Wii U games ? Buy them or rent them online with the Nintendo Cloud service. Nintendo had many issues with the cost of the Wii U, for the NX they will make sure to keep the cost has low as possible.
 

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
With Nintendo recent move into Mobile market, I think we can throw History outside the window now :) !

That make NO BUSINESS sense IMO to go for backward compatibility. You want to play Wii U games ? Buy them or rent them online with the Nintendo Cloud service. Nintendo had many issues with the cost of the Wii U, for the NX they will make sure to keep the cost has low as possible.
I'm not sure that means they will scrap backwards compatibility, but I suppose there is always a chance....
 

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
You know I wish they would keep Backward Compatibility myself... Sometimes I wants to play old Xbox 360 games, but for that I need to unplugged my Xbox One and it's too annoying and I don't do it ( I guess I'm lazy... ).
I would bet real money on the fact that if this NX is a portable, it will certainly be backwards compatible....

But on the home console front, you could be right about it not happening....

It will really just come down to if Nintendo believes the Wii U is just to specific in its function to warrent backwards compatibility....

Like if Nintendo decides it's just too much to have the GamePad be funtional with this NX....

Nintendo may just decide that because of the Gamepad, and how the games for Wii U were built around it to some degree, that the Wii U will end up falling in the catagory of "If you want to play Wii U games, you'll have to buy a Wii U simply because Nintendo has opted not to go forward with the dual screen design of the Wii U." Which would leave the Wii U under the "specialized device" catagory, much like how Nintendo finally left behind carts when they went from N64 to Gamecube....

If that were the case, then we should be expecting a HUGE FUCKING LEAP from Nintendo in terms of technology with this new NX....

This might be a much bigger jump than most people realize....

As in it might be of such huge impact that Nintendo is starting all over again....

IF that is the case, much like Wii was backwards compatible, Nintendo would eventually bring backwards compatiblity back after the huge leap they are taking....

That all sounds very plausible....

I mean, at the very least it the Wii U would stick around much like the Wii did for a little while before they finally put it to bed....

Give the Big N a chance to sell backstock, get caught up while they release NX, and then finally do away with the Wii U once and for all....
 
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EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
A Wii U architecture is a NO GO for me. First this would contrary to the AMD processor rumors. 2nd, The Wii U was so dissed by 3rd party that would REALLY a bad start.
To be fair, the Wii U's CPU was dissed because developers had spent years with the 360 and PS3. Once third parties started building with only One and PS4 in mind?

"We decided to lock them at the same specs to avoid all the debates and stuff," senior producer Vincent Pontbriand told VideoGamer.com while explaining that it's the consoles' CPUs – not the GPU – that prevents Ubisoft Montreal from improving the game's performance.

"Technically we're CPU-bound," he said.

Third parties don't bitch as loudly about the One and PS4 because they know Microsoft and Sony butter their bread. But they hit the same sort of "slow" CPU wall. No, really. They just deal with it because they have to (go back and read developers kvetching about programming for the PS2 and PS3), whereas Nintendo is pretty much always viewed as an optional consideration.

As for the Wii U's chips, Iwata said they want to "accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture." That doesn't mean copy and pasting it as-is. It's not contrary to the AMD processor rumor at all, anymore than it's contrary for Xenoblade to be running on the 3DS (with an ARM CPU) instead of the Wii (with a PPC CPU).

But this is also all assuming Nintendo gives three shits about third parties going forward. When you consolidate your home and handheld divisions so that you can deliver steady content without delays or help? That's not pointing to making third parties your top priority.
This is what I've been thinking for some time. I imagine the New 3DS is already equipped to handle Nintendo OS, and it will be able to play drastically pared down versions of future Nintendo games. The NX could very well be like a NEW Wii U, essentially just a beefed up version of the WiiU, that would be able to play any game the NEW 3DS and the WiiU can. Most of all, I definitely don't think it'll be a "generational leap" ahead of the WiiU, graphically out functionally. Rather, it will be a"half-step" that adds to the half step the WiiU was in terms of blurring the lines between a portable and a home console system. In other words, I think the NX will essentially be the WiiU and 3DS put together, made into a family, and given wings.
I think that's sounding like a better and better guess.

[Also fits Nintendo's way of recycling hardware. The Wii was in large part a recycled GC. The NX could be a recycled sort of Wii U, just with the aim swapped - instead of the console streaming to the controller, you put the console in your own hands and stream to the TV.]
 
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ASuch

The Salt Master
I want a leap enough that the NX can at the very least get the same games as PS4/XBO, and then launch something better with the PS5/XB2
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
I've for some reason always thought it would be 2 systems, but two systems that work like this.

So your playing MH on your TV on N. Well someone yells "Matt it's time too go". With the X controller I'm using it's also a handheld so all I do is turn off the TV start walking and I'm still playing instantly on X with not one bit of a hiccup.

2 different systems that work in 100% harmony with one another. BUT you don't NEED X to run N, or vise versa.
 

TheAmazingLSB

PLEASE UNDERSTAND....
I've for some reason always thought it would be 2 systems, but two systems that work like this.

So your playing MH on your TV on N. Well someone yells "Matt it's time too go". With the X controller I'm using it's also a handheld so all I do is turn off the TV start walking and I'm still playing instantly on X with not one bit of a hiccup.

2 different systems that work in 100% harmony with one another. BUT you don't NEED X to run N, or vise versa.
What they do is what they did with Wii U, only make it an option and not the selling point like the GamePad was for the Wii U....

By doing this they can get rid of the Gamepad problems, like funcionality and production cost....

It sounds like what the Vita is to the PS4, only good instead of suck....

You could have remote play an option as well....

Get access to certain eShop games capable of being run on the handheld....

Have cross buy games that work on both platforms....

It all sounds very much like the Vita/PS3/PS4 combo, just a much smoother working version of it....

As far as playing console games on the go, that would be awesome....

The only problem is that if that were the case, then Nintendo's console would have to take a huge leap backwards in power to cater to the portable side of NX....

Or the portable side would have to make huge strides in terms of portable gaming tech vs home console....

It's also possible that Nintendo could find a middle ground somewhere, like a technological sweet spot that is amazing on both console and portable....

Wow.... You just blew my mind up....

 
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Ex-Actarus

Well-Known Member
I would bet real money on the fact that if this NX is a portable, it will certainly be backwards compatible....

But on the home console front, you could be right about it not happening....

It will really just come down to if Nintendo believes the Wii U is just to specific in its function to warrent backwards compatibility....

Like if Nintendo decides it's just too much to have the GamePad be funtional with this NX....

Nintendo may just decide that because of the Gamepad, and how the games for Wii U were built around it to some degree, that the Wii U will end up falling in the catagory of "If you want to play Wii U games, you'll have to buy a Wii U simply because Nintendo has opted not to go forward with the dual screen design of the Wii U." Which would leave the Wii U under the "specialized device" catagory, much like how Nintendo finally left behind carts when they went from N64 to Gamecube....

If that were the case, then we should be expecting a HUGE FUCKING LEAP from Nintendo in terms of technology with this new NX....

This might be a much bigger jump than most people realize....

As in it might be of such huge impact that Nintendo is starting all over again....

IF that is the case, much like Wii was backwards compatible, Nintendo would eventually bring backwards compatiblity back after the huge leap they are taking....

That all sounds very plausible....

I mean, at the very least it the Wii U would stick around much like the Wii did for a little while before they finally put it to bed....

Give the Big N a chance to sell backstock, get caught up while they release NX, and then finally do away with the Wii U once and for all....
Man, I wish Nintendo goes for the big leap indeed... But as @ASuch said, I'm expecting a system as powerful ( or at least a bit more powerful ) than the PS4/One. Making a system too powerful would not get support from 3rd party devs. They need a system that can ease ports from PS4/One titles.

But is it too much to ask to expect something special as 4K ? This would bring a graphic whore on the NX. I can't remember if it was @EvilTw1n or @Shoulder who was saying it would be too expensive.


I've for some reason always thought it would be 2 systems, but two systems that work like this.

So your playing MH on your TV on N. Well someone yells "Matt it's time too go". With the X controller I'm using it's also a handheld so all I do is turn off the TV start walking and I'm still playing instantly on X with not one bit of a hiccup.

2 different systems that work in 100% harmony with one another. BUT you don't NEED X to run N, or vise versa.
It's official ! You will be Nintendo next CEO as soon as Iwata steps down. If NX is something as you outlined, that would dope ! Man, I don't think it's going to be possible for Nintendo to wait until 2016 to give details on NX... Rumors are going to be ALL over the places !
 

nerdman

pig's gotta fly
If the goal is to have a hardware scenario like Iphone and Ipad, I think they will forego Wii U compatibility.

If you're going to build that kind of infrastructure, working with a clean slate seems preferable to starting with one that must support a failing console.
 
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EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
In case it hasn't been posted, Time interviewed Iwata-san.

http://time.com/3748920/nintendo-mobile-games/
But is it too much to ask to expect something special as 4K ? This would bring a graphic whore on the NX. I can't remember if it was @EvilTw1n or @Shoulder who was saying it would be too expensive.
It'd be costly, yes. You're looking at $400 consoles right now that can't even push 1080p across the board. If you want a console in two years (or less) to push the bleeding edge of graphical effects, it will not be cheap (or small, crucially) if you want it to output at 4K at the same time.

If you're a graphic whore, 4K is only a resolution. It's not some new way to render real-time lighting or weather effects, or render more characters onscreen, or to give a greater draw distance to open-world games. And its increased sharpness is only readily apparent on huge screens.
If the goal is to have a hardware scenario like Iphone and Ipad, I think they will forego Wii U compatibility.
If the goal is to have reasonably powerful hardware that they can push out of the gate on a variety of devices that can stream to a TV, they won't have much choice, though.
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
Man, I wish Nintendo goes for the big leap indeed... But as @ASuch said, I'm expecting a system as powerful ( or at least a bit more powerful ) than the PS4/One. Making a system too powerful would not get support from 3rd party devs. They need a system that can ease ports from PS4/One titles.

But is it too much to ask to expect something special as 4K ? This would bring a graphic whore on the NX. I can't remember if it was @EvilTw1n or @Shoulder who was saying it would be too expensive.
I think I did mention that 4k would be too expensive, and that's the honest answer. The amount of power needed from the GPU alone would have to be at least as powerful, maybe double the power output of the brand new GTX Titan X, and that costs $1,000US. Some benchmarks are coming out saying a game like Crysis 3 maxxed out @4k only runs at an average of 28fps (no mention of AA though)

Granted, on IGN (http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/03/17/nvidia-geforce-gtx-titan-x-benchmarks-and-impressions), they posted some impressions of the GTX Titan X, and it does present some promising numbers for 4k gaming. But this is still a thousand dollar GPU, but the GTX 980, and the AMD R9 290x are not far off. But still, even those GPUs are still I believe half the price of the Titan X.

4k gaming is on its way, but if you're expecting Nintendo to jump onto the 4k bandwagon, especially at this particular time, the system would bankrupt Nintendo because of the GPU alone. In another five years though, 4k gaming will be more accessible and cheaper enough for consoles to run it. Yes, we have 4k, 5k retina display computers and tablets, but those can hardly run games at those resolutions even at 30fps, let alone 60fps.

The amount of power simply isn't feasible right now, nor practical. Sure, it would be nice to see it for Nintendo, but expect another 1080p output for their console. It might be possible for 4k output for the NX, but only for movies and videos on the web, and not for games.
 

TechnoHobbit

Ash nazg durbatulûk
But is it too much to ask to expect something special as 4K ? This would bring a graphic whore on the NX. I can't remember if it was EvilTw1n or Shoulder who was saying it would be too expensive.
I personally think 4K could happen on Nintendo's next home console in 2017. Not for every game natively mind you (upscaling would be a big thing still), but for 2D titles and the occasional 3D title it would be a reasonable goal for a $399 system. It would give Nintendo a great buzz word for marketing the system and would have the advantage of being the only system capable of 4K output for as long as Sony and Microsoft allow.
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
I've for some reason always thought it would be 2 systems, but two systems that work like this.

So your playing MH on your TV on N. Well someone yells "Matt it's time too go". With the X controller I'm using it's also a handheld so all I do is turn off the TV start walking and I'm still playing instantly on X with not one bit of a hiccup.

2 different systems that work in 100% harmony with one another. BUT you don't NEED X to run N, or vise versa.
 

Ex-Actarus

Well-Known Member
I was reading articles and listening podcasts on the last Nintendo moves. There was a really good point raised. Kids nowadays DO PLAY ANYMORE Nintendo games. They play Minecraft or games on Smartphones / Tablets. So It seems by going mobile, Nintendo intends as well to recapture that crowd.

Another interesting point that I've heard is that Nintendo should QUIT trying to transform Casual gamers into Core gamers. IT WON'T HAPPEN ! People don't want want several devices. They have 1 phone and 1 tablet. That's it ! They won't spend 200 or 300 Euros for a new devices where they will have to pay 40 to 60$ to play games... NOT HAPPENING !


I personally think 4K could happen on Nintendo's next home console in 2017. Not for every game natively mind you (upscaling would be a big thing still), but for 2D titles and the occasional 3D title it would be a reasonable goal for a $399 system. It would give Nintendo a great buzz word for marketing the system and would have the advantage of being the only system capable of 4K output for as long as Sony and Microsoft allow.
I disagree with both @Shoulder and @EvilTw1n. I understand that 4K technology must be expensive, but new technologies tend to drop in price quite quickly. I remember that 4K capable TVs were pretty much not in the market 2 years ago. Today you can get 4K TVs below 700/800 $. Needless to say that we'll get 4K TVs below 500$ within a year or so. So if the NX is coming out in late 2016 or in 2017. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some kind of Ultra HD support...

I'm not expecting indeed Metroid Prime 4 to run at 4 K and 120 fps. But maybe we will have as @TechnoHobbit said a less ambitious games as a 2D Metroid in 4K. Marketing wise, that would huge !
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
I disagree with both @Shoulder and @EvilTw1n. I understand that 4K technology must be expensive, but new technologies tend to drop in price quite quickly.
It's not about price alone. You need very large screens to even notice 4K.



4K makes little sense on TVs under about 65 inches. Others point to about 80 inches. And most people don't have TVs of that size. That's your first problem.

Your second problem is if you want a handheld device that is going to have state of the art 4K graphics that it can stream to a television, good luck making it as big as a Wii U GamePad. You'll be trying to play with something in your hands bigger than a PS3 fat, most likely.

Your third problem will be battery life. This isn't a phone rendering a menu screen, it's a console rendering complex game worlds.

Could less ambitious games run at 4K? They'd have to pretty plain, and then you lose the point of even having the higher resolution.

This isn't to hate on 4K. It's gonna come (although it's mostly going to be overkill). Trying to put it on a handheld by 2017, though, probably isn't worth it.
 

TechnoHobbit

Ash nazg durbatulûk
Stats like the ones above don't really matter for the general population. 4K TV's are selling pretty well now and most of them are under 65 inches.

Though yeah, a handheld has no chance of getting 4K for quite awhile. At the most I see Nintendo putting in a 720p screen in the NX (assuming it's their next portable), Nintendo has never been big on high res screens. On the other hand, a home console (if it comes out in late 2017 or later) having 4K though is a reasonable expectation IMO.
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
Stats like the ones above don't really matter for the general population. 4K TV's are selling pretty well now and most of them are under 65 inches.

Though yeah, a handheld has no chance of getting 4K for quite awhile. At the most I see Nintendo putting in a 720p screen in the NX (assuming it's their next portable), Nintendo has never been big on high res screens. On the other hand, a home console (if it comes out in late 2017 or later) having 4K though is a reasonable expectation IMO.
Hell, I'de be surprised if resolution was more than 480p for their next handheld, given their progress from the GBA, DS and 3DS. 720p could happen, but not 1080p, and sure as hell not 4k like you said. For a handheld, that's beyond overkill.

If Nintendo announces the NX as a console, and it has 4k resolution, don't expect cutting-edge graphics. The tech just won't be cheap enough by next year if that is to be the launch year. 2017 I'd be more confident about, but still not convinced it would happen.

And given Nintendo's take with resolution in the first place, that's one of the last things Nintendo cares about, and I think developers don't even care as much as the hardcore gamers do.
 
The Wii U itself is certainly looking that way of becoming a failure, but if and only if you're looking at it from a particular point of view. If you look at the Wii U in terms of sales, yes, it is a failure right now. But it's interesting what this potential failure has managed to launch with Mario 3D World, Pikmin 3, W101, Bayo2, Smash Bros, Wind Waker HD, DKC: TF, MK8, Kirby, etc. For a possible failure, it sure has released some fantastic games, and we haven't even gotten into XCX, Zelda, Splatoon, Devil's Third, Mario Maker, Yoshi, etc. Granted, unreleased games are not representative of great products, because we haven't played them yet. Imagine what Nintendo could do if the Wii U were the success of the PS4 right now?

Does Nintendo need a good kick in the pants? Absolutely. Their decisions over the last few years have called into question many from us who are die-hard Nintendo fans to boot. Nintendo's stance, or lack thereof on Online and taking it seriously, the Virtual Console, consistent flow of games, lack of AAA 3rd party support, etc.

I get what you're saying though about making these decisions right now versus a few years ago, but I also doubt Nintendo had no knowledge of it. They probably thought, "Let's wait and see what the market says, and then we'll act upon it." That's not to say Nintendo doesn't take gambles though. The Wii and DS are clear examples of that. The Wii U and 3DS are also gambles from Nintendo, and one of them hasn't been the success they would want it to be. But Nintendo also did that to themselves by putting the Wii and DS onto such high pedestals in the first place. They used the name brands of the Wii and DS, to help drive their consumer base with the 3DS and Wii U, and guess what? It didn't work. The 3DS was too expensive, and did not have a great lineup of games until a year later, on top of a massive price cut. The Wii U had a decent launch, but the price turned off folks, and the infamous drought in 2013 did not help either, and then AAA companies cancelling support was bad too.

There was also the name, and Nintendo's lack of ability to correctly educate the masses that the Wii U was not an add-on to the original Wii, and was instead an all new console. Although I do have to give the masses some flack because you can find out what the system is with a simple Google search. It's not that hard to figure out what it is. "Hmm, Wii U? What's that? *google search* Oh I get it now."

Does Iwata need to go as CEO? Yes and no. Yes because Nintendo had three years of losses under him. When the PS3 wasn't a big success, they hired a new CEO to turn things around, and it has helped them ever since then. The PS4 is proof of that (although, where are the exclusives?) But No for Iwata because they do have a plan in store, and I'm interested to see what this plan of action they is. Embracing mobile gaming, working on a new platform, keeping steady with the success of the 3DS, and still supporting the Wii U even when its success isn't anywhere near what the PS4 is.

Under Iwata, the DS, DSi, Wii, and 3DS have become successes, whereas the Wii U hasn't been the success of the others. I discount the GCN and GBA because those came out while Yamauchi was still with Nintendo. Both the 3DS and Wii U though have cost Nintendo billions in their cash reserves, although a lot of that money has also come from other R&D projects, on top of a new headquarters, the QOL platform, and other misc things we probably don't know about. There's been a lot of restructuring within their internal staff from merging their handheld and console divisions, to their online infrastructure with the Nintendo Network.

Should have some of those things happened years ago? Probably, but maybe Nintendo figured it wasn't as important back then during the Wii/DS era because of their success. I think Nintendo got cocky, and it wasn't simply Iwata either.

I don't know though. We can debate debate, and debate all day about this. Until I see what Nintendo has in store for us with Mobile gaming, the new memerbship program, and of course the NX, I'm going to play the waiting game to see. We also have the Fiscal year ending soon, so it'll be interesting to compare and contrast the 2013 fiscal year versus 2014. Any improvement for Nintendo is good not only for Nintendo themselves, but Iwata's future as CEO as well.
You need to look up your sony knowledge some more. When they were failing they didnt clean house, they flipflopped between a variety of internal folks.

http://kotaku.com/5960411/how-sony-is-turning-into-a-ghost-in-japan-and-around-the-world

The only decisive decision they did was put kutaragi to the side and put his other hand in front, then hire some outside help
 
The NX is going to be backwards compatible with the Wii U and the 3DS in the even that its running on ARM. ARM is easier to port over the Wii U's tools from to the new thing, certain aspects of the architecture ect(( Like their framework and the like) Capcom will benefit if they continue making multiple versions of monster hunter now without such a huge strain on their console budgets. Sakurai wont have to kill himself for smash bros 3ds/wii u ect

As for the next handheld? Expect it to look weird using Sharp's Free Form display.
 

hogge

Active Member
Really, the most important part of launching new hardware is software.

IMO, the Wii U has failed due to weak software. Nintendo succeeded in releasing a console which seems unapealing to even their biggest fans. I have loads of friends who have owned every single Nintendo home console since the NES, but still aren't convinced they want a Wii U, in fact several have said they'll wait for the next system.
Nintendo need to launch the Wii U with a killer app. And as with the original Wii, let fans know that most of their favorite franchises will have releases within 18 months.
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
You need to look up your sony knowledge some more. When they were failing they didnt clean house, they flipflopped between a variety of internal folks.

http://kotaku.com/5960411/how-sony-is-turning-into-a-ghost-in-japan-and-around-the-world

The only decisive decision they did was put kutaragi to the side and put his other hand in front, then hire some outside help
Honestly, while I knew Sony had some financial difficulties, especially during the PS3 era, I had not realized the seriousness of the situation. That's quite eye opening when you think about, especially when you simply factor in the Japanese people who have forgotten Sony.

Seems to me the big question we should be asking then is can the PS4 help drive Sony out of this, and turn them back into the company the Japanese people once remembered and love? Probably not in the end due to the competition of their Korean neighbors, but some people have said how maybe Sony will eventually turn itself into a gaming company like Nintendo, and only produce video games. I don't exactly see that happening as drastic as some would see it, but at the very least, they'll probably sell off more of their divisions, and cut down. I'd be very curious to know how their Camera division is doing because their cameras are fantastic and well-made products from my understanding.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
4K would just be a marketing gimmick, seeing as how PS4 and X1 level hardware struggles to pull off 1080p, you would need a console with 4X the power to run those PS4 games in 4K native resolution, not to mention shit loads of memory bandwidth. I dont honestly see Nintendo going the power route, and will probably still fall short of the PS4 in brute power. I do think AMD is building an APU that uses an ARM processor that can adequately absorb the Wii U architecture. I dont think Nintendo wants to make big changes in their development software to accommodate a drastically different architecture. It all really depends on how Nintendo is approaching their new hardware. What is going to be the primary reason to buy one? Just matching the competition alongside Nintendo exclusives isnt a recipe for success. Both the Gamecube and Wii U (early on) had solid third party support, but it didnt strike a chord with the mass market. I dont know, its going to be tricky.
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
I've for some reason always thought it would be 2 systems, but two systems that work like this.

So your playing MH on your TV on N. Well someone yells "Matt it's time too go". With the X controller I'm using it's also a handheld so all I do is turn off the TV start walking and I'm still playing instantly on X with not one bit of a hiccup.

2 different systems that work in 100% harmony with one another. BUT you don't NEED X to run N, or vise versa.

That would be great and possible.

After that, an NX mini whose screen is smaller in case you want a smaller handheld.

For me, it's like this:

First NX generation

NX = "sort of iPad (screen on your hands everywhere) + Apple TV (streaming)" with WiiU inside

Next NX = MiniNX = "sort of iPhone (smaller screen) + Apple TV" with 3DS inside


Second NX generation

Then, NX2 = A more powerful NX without WiiU inside but with WiiU+3DS games coming out on eShop.

Mini NX2 = The same NX2 but with smaller screen.

After that, new NXs will play everything that was released before, because the OS is the same. New games will play only on new NXes, like Xenoblade 3D on New 3DS.




I was reading articles and listening podcasts on the last Nintendo moves. There was a really good point raised. Kids nowadays DO PLAY ANYMORE Nintendo games. They play Minecraft or games on Smartphones / Tablets. So It seems by going mobile, Nintendo intends as well to recapture that crowd.

Another interesting point that I've heard is that Nintendo should QUIT trying to transform Casual gamers into Core gamers. IT WON'T HAPPEN ! People don't want want several devices. They have 1 phone and 1 tablet. That's it ! They won't spend 200 or 300 Euros for a new devices where they will have to pay 40 to 60$ to play games... NOT HAPPENING !
Indeed, children today only play mobile games.

Parents like that, because they don't want their children asking for a $300 console. So children keep playing Clash of Clans on the mobile devices that their parents don't use any more.

I don't know how to fix this, but it's not only a Nintendo problem, it's a industry problem. The big 3 have to sort it out.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
Stats like the ones above don't really matter for the general population. 4K TV's are selling pretty well now and most of them are under 65 inches.

Though yeah, a handheld has no chance of getting 4K for quite awhile. At the most I see Nintendo putting in a 720p screen in the NX (assuming it's their next portable), Nintendo has never been big on high res screens. On the other hand, a home console (if it comes out in late 2017 or later) having 4K though is a reasonable expectation IMO.
Well I wasn't aiming just general population - we're also talking about applicability to gaming and Nintendo, specifically. But even then, it's not like the general population are super tech savvy. Most people didn't know they were playing COD last gen in sub-HD resolution, and most don't care that they're playing at sub-1080p now. I know Digital Foundry's comments section wants this to not be true, but alas, they'll have to rise above their anguish.

4K has momentum, but put it in perspective. It's at 1% of all TV ownership here in the U.S. The optimistic take is to up that to 10% by 2016 (and 50% by 2020). That might be overly optimistic, due to people buying high quality 1080p sets very recently (with improved contrast ratios). Even if it's not, and TV makers phase out HD more quickly than that? Game devs will get more bang for their buck by including a good scaler, and 95% of the gaming population won't know the difference to begin with.
4K would just be a marketing gimmick, seeing as how PS4 and X1 level hardware struggles to pull off 1080p, you would need a console with 4X the power to run those PS4 games in 4K native resolution, not to mention shit loads of memory bandwidth. I dont honestly see Nintendo going the power route, and will probably still fall short of the PS4 in brute power. I do think AMD is building an APU that uses an ARM processor that can adequately absorb the Wii U architecture. I dont think Nintendo wants to make big changes in their development software to accommodate a drastically different architecture. It all really depends on how Nintendo is approaching their new hardware. What is going to be the primary reason to buy one? Just matching the competition alongside Nintendo exclusives isnt a recipe for success. Both the Gamecube and Wii U (early on) had solid third party support, but it didnt strike a chord with the mass market. I dont know, its going to be tricky.
4X bare minimum. Double that to do it comfortably with a touch of headroom. And that's just to get the native resolution up; you aren't doing anything but playing slightly cleaner PS4 games, not giving them enhanced graphical effects to give them any sort of "next-gen" sheen.

It'll make for some priceless interview with devs, though. "We're just going 2K resolution, because it's more cinematic."
Honestly, while I knew Sony had some financial difficulties, especially during the PS3 era, I had not realized the seriousness of the situation. That's quite eye opening when you think about, especially when you simply factor in the Japanese people who have forgotten Sony.
Dude, with just the PS3, they lost a metric fuck ton (that's $3 billion; and notice MS has actually topped that with $5 billion in losses with the XB brand - compare that to Nintendo's net losses these past few years).
 
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Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
Well I wasn't aiming just general population - we're also talking about applicability to gaming and Nintendo, specifically. But even then, it's not like the general population are super tech savvy. Most people didn't know they were playing COD last gen in sub-HD resolution, and most don't care that they're playing at sub-1080p now. I know Digital Foundry's comments section wants this to not be true, but alas, they'll have to rise above their anguish.

4K has momentum, but put it in perspective. It's at 1% of all TV ownership here in the U.S. The optimistic take is to up that to 10% by 2016 (and 50% by 2020). That might be overly optimistic, due to people buying high quality 1080p sets very recently (with improved contrast ratios). Even if it's not, and TV makers phase out HD more quickly than that? Game devs will get more bang for their buck by including a good scaler, and 95% of the gaming population won't know the difference to begin with.

4X bare minimum. Double that to do it comfortably with a touch of headroom. And that's just to get the native resolution up; you aren't doing anything but playing slightly cleaner PS4 games, not giving them enhanced graphical effects to give them any sort of "next-gen" sheen.

It'll make for some priceless interview with devs, though. "We're just going 2K resolution, because it's more cinematic."

Dude, with just the PS3, they lost a metric fuck ton (that's $3 billion; and notice MS has actually topped that with $5 billion in losses with the XB brand - compare that to Nintendo's net losses these past few years).
Yeah. Like you said, 1080p to 4k (which is 3840x2160) is 4x times the resolution, and thus would need 4x the power to render everything IF AND ONLY IF the graphics were the same. But because graphics themselves get better and require more power to render, we're looking at 6x or more for some head room. Sure, the power difference between the PS3 and PS4 is probably around 4x-6x in real world terms (not theoretical), but in that time, tessellation (something the PS3 cannot do, btw), shadows, textures, lighting, usage of AA, etc, have all gotten better. All these things take up all this extra power in the first place, it's no wonder games these days are still having trouble running games at 1080p60.
 

hogge

Active Member
Indeed, children today only play mobile games.

Parents like that, because they don't want their children asking for a $300 console. So children keep playing Clash of Clans on the mobile devices that their parents don't use any more.

I don't know how to fix this, but it's not only a Nintendo problem, it's a industry problem. The big 3 have to sort it out.
If I'm to be a cynical, evil business mastermind, I'd say kids are easy to manipulate. And parents are in turn easily manipulated by nagging kids.
Thus, if Nintendo are clever (and manipulative), I certainly believe they can make kids desire consoles.
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
If I'm to be a cynical, evil business mastermind, I'd say kids are easy to manipulate. And parents are in turn easily manipulated by nagging kids.
Thus, if Nintendo are clever (and manipulative), I certainly believe they can make kids desire consoles.
I hope so, not only for Nintendo, but for the 3.

I want a new generation of gamers.

I've got some friends with children and they don't ask for consoles. They just want tablets and smartphones in order to do Instagram, Snapchat and play those MMO mobile games with their friends that also don't play any console.

Back in the days, when I was a child, I was asking for a SNES for Christmas while some of my friends already had one. One year after I got my SNES, a friend of mine asked me to came over his place and I found him playing Mario 64. Mind-blowing! I said to my mum: That's what I want, can I?

I don't see many children getting excited about consoles any more.

The industry needs to fix it and Nintendo, I think, is the most capable of doing so if they want.
 

Ex-Actarus

Well-Known Member
Stats like the ones above don't really matter for the general population. 4K TV's are selling pretty well now and most of them are under 65 inches.

Though yeah, a handheld has no chance of getting 4K for quite awhile. At the most I see Nintendo putting in a 720p screen in the NX (assuming it's their next portable), Nintendo has never been big on high res screens. On the other hand, a home console (if it comes out in late 2017 or later) having 4K though is a reasonable expectation IMO.
I agree.

I mean the PS3 had a Blu Ray player at a time when Blu Ray player were very expensive. Same thing for the PS2 with DVD player.


@Goodtwin , Marketing gimmick ? Yep that's the point ! It doesn't matter if this can bring sales ! I mean the PS4 is ahead of the Xbox One because it had better specs ( according the a recent survey in France reported by Gamekult ). And as you said, both the PS4 and Xbone are struggling to bring 1080p games to this day. 1080p is a promised made since last gen... It's Marketing and it works !

If I was Nintendo I would bring something like this : "NX, the Ultra HD Experience"
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
Something to consider on the "X86 or ARM?" question people have talked about on the CPU front. Google is literally now delivering a computer on a stick. How?

The secret behind these low-cost Chromebooks is the RK3288, a very inexpensive ARM processor from Rockchip, a Chinese chip maker that’s little known outside of industry circles.

The Rockchip RK3288 is one of the first chips based on the quad-core ARM Cortex-A17 architecture, which was launched in mid-2014. Because the chip can draw as little as 3 watts of power, the Chromebooks based on it are designed without fans, and can last all day on a single charge—up to 13 hours in the Asus Chromebook Flip, according to Gayathri Rajan, director of product management at Google.


...With the Chromebit, Asus has added a full-size USB connector for plugging in a USB hub, along with the hardware found inside the two new Chromebooks from Haier and Hisense.

Does a lot with little power draw. Runs cool. Doesn't kill batteries. Hyper efficient. Tiny form factor.

Gee, that sort of thing doesn't sound like what Nintendo wants out of hardware at all, does it?

But...this sort of processor can't handle high-end gaming.

Yet.
 
Something to consider on the "X86 or ARM?" question people have talked about on the CPU front. Google is literally now delivering a computer on a stick. How?

The secret behind these low-cost Chromebooks is the RK3288, a very inexpensive ARM processor from Rockchip, a Chinese chip maker that’s little known outside of industry circles.

The Rockchip RK3288 is one of the first chips based on the quad-core ARM Cortex-A17 architecture, which was launched in mid-2014. Because the chip can draw as little as 3 watts of power, the Chromebooks based on it are designed without fans, and can last all day on a single charge—up to 13 hours in the Asus Chromebook Flip, according to Gayathri Rajan, director of product management at Google.


...With the Chromebit, Asus has added a full-size USB connector for plugging in a USB hub, along with the hardware found inside the two new Chromebooks from Haier and Hisense.

Does a lot with little power draw. Runs cool. Doesn't kill batteries. Hyper efficient. Tiny form factor.

Gee, that sort of thing doesn't sound like what Nintendo wants out of hardware at all, does it?

But...this sort of processor can't handle high-end gaming.

Yet.
Something like this is why Nintendo is Teasing the NX now. Finalize (Rough) Specs for the system by January 31, 2016, Have Devs start making games for NX late February/early March 2016, Stats Reveal for NX during E3 2016, Release Date Reveal for NX September 2016, Release of NX October/November 2017.

Gives Next Level Games, Retro Studios, SquareEnix, Mistwalker, and Platinum Games time to Release one more game on Wii U during 2016 timeframe and Nintendo to make some Launch Titles for NX along with Kemco and possibly Valhalla Games.

Lots of time in between like Year end Sales numbers ending March 31st come May 7th and Details of Nintendo's E3 2015 within a week of said meeting.
 

Ex-Actarus

Well-Known Member
Something like this is why Nintendo is Teasing the NX now. Finalize (Rough) Specs for the system by January 31, 2016, Have Devs start making games for NX late February/early March 2016, Stats Reveal for NX during E3 2016, Release Date Reveal for NX September 2016, Release of NX October/November 2017.

Gives Next Level Games, Retro Studios, SquareEnix, Mistwalker, and Platinum Games time to Release one more game on Wii U during 2016 timeframe and Nintendo to make some Launch Titles for NX along with Kemco and possibly Valhalla Games.

Lots of time in between like Year end Sales numbers ending March 31st come May 7th and Details of Nintendo's E3 2015 within a week of said meeting.
Again, Nintendo is NOT going to waste money to develop a game on Wii U right now. Not happening !!! The game that are going to be released on Wii U now, are games that have been already in development for some time. If we hear about a Next Level or Retro game coming on Wii U this year, it's because the game was already in production for at least 2 years ! Square Enix !!! Really ? Seriously, come on son :)


I'm not sure with the release dates, so you are saying the following :
- NX Reveal 2016
- NX release window unveiled in September 2016
- NX actual release date October / November 2017
If that's what you meant, I have to disagree...

Nowadays, time to market has to be faster ! The competition is reacting quickly. And in a social media era, leaks are happening more frequently, so it's even harder to maintain innovation. Revealing NX at E3 2016, but releasing it late 2017, would leave too much time to the competition to react and too much opportunity for 3rd party devs to leaks info on NX ( especially if Nintendo has a killer ap ).

So, IMO, NX will be unveiled and released the same year, as it was the case for the PS4 and the Xbox One ( and the 3DS is some capacity as it was released just 8 months after its reveal ). I still believe it will be in 2016.
 
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