What is Retro Studios REALLY up to?

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
Will elaborate on a bit more in a few, but it's worth noting:

"Under Spangenberg's guidance, Retro hired by the dozens, employing the closest thing to rockstars that the videogame industry tolerates -- guys and girls at the height of their respective field, whether we're talking design, engineering or art. Mark Haigh-Hutchinson, a gifted programmer who passed away in January of 2008, was a pivotal engineer in everything from Paperboy to Star Wars: Shadow of the Empire and ultimately to the Metroid Prime series, for which he supplied the innovative camera systems. They came from Origin. They came from n-Space. They came from id Software. And they kept coming. Before too long, Retro was a giant, employing well in excess of 200 employees and developing four projects, three of which would be altogether cancelled and the remaining completely transformed during an era in the company's history that could be labeled both a crisis and a proving ground depending on your point of view."
http://www.ign.com/articles/2009/08/29/a-space-bounty-hunter-in-texas

Prime-era Retro isn't even what Retro was supposed to be - a big, multi-project studio. It isn't controversial in the slightest to wonder about how the studio has changed. It was remade from the Spangenberg era, then remade from the Prime era to the DKC era, and is most likely being remade for the post-DKC era. "Who are they gonna be now?" is a viable question.
but again, that is on nintendo, not retro, nintendo decides what they make, the budget they have to make it, the deadlines, as well as when the games they make are revealed, retro ahs very little agency in these things....

put that blame where it belongs.. on Nintendo
For their part, Retro hasn't even said Nintendo dictated to them to make DK. But that aside, I think we all agree that Nintendo makes the decisions, and it's up to Retro to execute. The execute part is making a game for release. If someone wants to assume Nintendo is a nefarious entity that sees a quality product and would rather not release it because they hate money, then yes, it totally makes sense to say "it's Nintendo's fault for shackling Retro to the barbecue pit." Otherwise, it's possible that Retro's execution hasn't been...timely.

It's also pretty dubious to compare a 3D World (which was basically a flattened out Galaxy) or Skyward Sword (they only made a new combat system, art style, back story, and progression structure) as unambitious games compared to a 2D platformer. It's not that I dislike 2D platformers, mind you (I think there's plenty of life in all things 2D). It simply isn't as onerous an undertaking to make one. A grand total of no one here or anywhere else would say "yeah, Nintendo should sign a contract for id Software to make a new 2D NSMB, 'cause 2D platformers are AAA-level productions in 2017." That's a dead-end debate.

I'm not saying Retro is a "bad developer." I'm guessing they could be in a modernization phase, or that there has been a snag after an exodus of talent, or that maybe we should expect more DKC-level work*, or that there's a crossroads on what to do with the luxury of a Western developer when Nintendo has business options with other studios that fill in a lot of their library in a way that Retro never did. With any long-developing software, the longer it goes on, the more questions arise, especially when a studio goes through some upheavel. But I ain't rooting for Retro to not be great.

[*Which isn't something I'd call a "bad game." It's just not as ambitious as the on-the-edge-of-development stuff that Retro has made before.]
One thing I've noticed is there's nothing wrong with Retro's track record of making games.
Circling back to that original link...

"I always like reading the posts about Raven Blade. There's this underground mystery about that game. When you start reading the blogs and newsgroups and what have you, there's always this post that says, 'Oh, they're going to work on Raven Blade' or 'I wonder if they're bringing Raven Blade back?' And at one point I went back and had them burn the last copy of Raven Blade -- and this was probably two or three years ago -- and I looked at it," says Michael Kelbaugh, president of Retro Studios. He's a straight shooter who possesses the managerial skills so lacking from Retro in previous years and he's also a collector of fine vodka. "I just couldn't believe that we even came close to making anything like that because it was absolutely horrible." Like I said, he's a straight shooter and frankly, I'm a forced to agree. I caught an early glimpse of Raven Blade gameplay footage years back and it was uninspired and underdeveloped. Had I not known better, I would've never pegged it from the same studio behind Prime.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2009/08/29/a-space-bounty-hunter-in-texas?page=4

Retro, even with all of the talent it possessed earlier in its life, was perfectly capable of ruining its track record. I've loved some of Retro's games, but I'm never starry-eyed about any developer (it's why I've been pretty open in wondering if Capcom is ruining Monster Hunter). That's why I wonder about what's going on at all.
Every single one of them have been highly praised and critically acclaimed, and yet some might suggest they are a waste (not saying it's people here), or they should've been making this game, or this game. The problem then becomes not Retro themselves, but the fans who feel they know better than Retro. I think a lot of this started after Metroid Prime 3, and only solidified after Tropical Freeze was announced as the surprise announcement. Basically, gamers' expectations were shattered, and as a result, some suggested that Retro are losing their touch. So there's nothing inherently wrong with the games, it's the gamers with a flawed sense of expectations (which in more recent terms is why some people are disappointed with Star Wars: The Last Jedi).

Again though, I'll stand by what I said earlier that we will hear and see what Retro are working on next year, possibly during the January Direct (if there is one), and it'll be one of the big holiday releases.
Let's say we have 2004-era Retro, now-era Monolith, Ocarina-era EAD, 2001-era Factor 5, etc. I don't really care how acclaimed a version of a 2D Yoshi that one of those developers would have made at the time. Putting them on the task would have been an ill-suited fit for their talents. If that is now a controversial statement, so be it, I guess. I see no reason to consider it one, but I'm, of course, biased.
After releasing two 2D Platforming games, people have been waiting for Retro to return to Prime glory, and create the next technical masterpiece that really blows people away. In all likelihood, that Retro has indeed past...
That's the only question there is. I hope for Retro to be one of those developers. The type that seem like they must be wizards sacrificing goats to a forgotten heathen god in order to pull off the exquisite ish I see on a my TV screen. Are they? I have my doubts. And I hope they're completely unfounded.
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
I get what you are saying Mike, my point is that it is not a discredit to the developer that they made two of the best and msot ambitious games in a genre you don't find ambitious

there is NO strike against retro, and common sense tells us their lack of a truly ambitious 3d game is more at Nintendo's whim, than their capability...

I am just saying their is ZERO evidence that they are diminished as a developer, unchallenged? yes, of course, but that isn't their fault, nor does it mar them

so we should not simply ASSUME that they aren't up to the task, unless they show us they are... which they haven't

I hope for an original IP, something hat lets them stretch and challenges them... THAT will tell us how good they are or are not

for all we know, retro could be the most proficient developer in existence today, or they could be the least

it just seems off to me to jump to the negative assumption when their is no evidence at all to support it, just because their is also no evidence to say they are still great

to me it is like court

we have retro as the defendant, and their lack of capability as the crime

but there is no body, no charge, no evidence of any kind, so it just isn't the time to bring it to trial

I think the argument that retro might not be top tier anymore is fine... but the assumption that they are not, at this time, is quite unfair

unfortunately we don't get much insight into their current state, but that lack of insight is not damning evidence against them

I want to see retro get an original IP because I want to see what they are worth... even prime wasn't a real measuring stick as they were playing with somebody else's IP... maybe if they had not done metroid they would have made something better, maybe they would have made something worse, it seems that nintendo's choice was right in canceling their 5 projects and redirecting their efforts to prime... but after this shakeup (getting rid of the 5 projects and focusing everything on prime), they were a changed company, they had a new president, much of the staff was laid off, they were made tighter and more focused, and that lead to metroid prime... maybe they could have followed that up with something far more mind blowing if they weren't relegated to prime from then on... then after 3 they lost some key talent, but it is also worth noting thta much of that talent hasn't really proven themselves elsewhere, so it is arguable that a lot of the true talent at hand was still in the company... but regardless, they were in a state of flux, so it makes sense that nintendo threw them a softball next... but lets not forget that they still knocked that softball out of the park, even at the worst and most tumultuous state they still nailed that softball... then after dkcr they started taking on some big talent from developers like lucas arts, valve, and naughty dog... they took on like 4 or 5 big concept artists too who were both respected, and had impressive portfolios that screamed "make me into an original IP by retro!"... then they went back to dkcr, disappointing many old retro fans... some who assumed this meant the old retro was dead... but there are various other ways of looking at it, 1 is that some people at retro expressed that they didn't feel they did dkcr as well as they could have, and they wanted to take it further before leaving the franchise, which would be more about unfinished business than lack of capability. A more likely story is that dkcr sold way better than the prime games, and was likely made on a shorter dev cycle, makign it a mroe profitable use of retro than prime. This is backed up by the state of Nintendo at that time, who was just starting to push into ambitious game making again after a bit of a lul, they ahd JUST started to reinvigorate mario kart, just started to open up to young talent with splatoon, just started to re-establish the foundations of zelda with vague statements that would eventually become botw... they had just played it safe with the wii u's only 3d mario game, and had just finished running the safer and less ambitious (significantly less so than dkcr) "new" super mario franchise into the ground

the trends would suggest more ambitious projects from Nintendo moving forward, and that would include retro...

if retro's next game is announced as something disappointing.. THEN it is time to re-evaluate their position... but even still

1. Nintendo showing a lack of confidence does not mean they are incapable, just that their capabilities are not seen by nintendo, it hitns towards them being lesser, but doesn't confirm anything.

2. Nintendo putting them on another dkcr, or something else that isn't as ambitious could also be their way of pushing for more sales for the develoepr which could make the developers expansion fiscally reasonable for them... metroid prime might be more ambitious, by dkcr sold more

even with a disapointing new reveal nothign is really set ins tone about the capabilities of the developer... on the other hand, an ambitious trailer would say MUCH more their is no equivlancy between what the 2 would say... an unambitious trailer CAN say a lot about nintendo's view oif the company, but there are caveats... an ambitious trailer means an expensive game, and that means nothing shy of absolute confidence from nintendo
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
I get what you are saying Mike, my point is that it is not a discredit to the developer that they made two of the best and msot ambitious games in a genre you don't find ambitious

there is NO strike against retro, and common sense tells us their lack of a truly ambitious 3d game is more at Nintendo's whim, than their capability...

I am just saying their is ZERO evidence that they are diminished as a developer, unchallenged? yes, of course, but that isn't their fault, nor does it mar them

so we should not simply ASSUME that they aren't up to the task, unless they show us they are... which they haven't

I hope for an original IP, something hat lets them stretch and challenges them... THAT will tell us how good they are or are not

for all we know, retro could be the most proficient developer in existence today, or they could be the least

it just seems off to me to jump to the negative assumption when their is no evidence at all to support it, just because their is also no evidence to say they are still great

to me it is like court

we have retro as the defendant, and their lack of capability as the crime

but there is no body, no charge, no evidence of any kind, so it just isn't the time to bring it to trial

I think the argument that retro might not be top tier anymore is fine... but the assumption that they are not, at this time, is quite unfair

unfortunately we don't get much insight into their current state, but that lack of insight is not damning evidence against them

I want to see retro get an original IP because I want to see what they are worth... even prime wasn't a real measuring stick as they were playing with somebody else's IP... maybe if they had not done metroid they would have made something better, maybe they would have made something worse, it seems that nintendo's choice was right in canceling their 5 projects and redirecting their efforts to prime... but after this shakeup (getting rid of the 5 projects and focusing everything on prime), they were a changed company, they had a new president, much of the staff was laid off, they were made tighter and more focused, and that lead to metroid prime... maybe they could have followed that up with something far more mind blowing if they weren't relegated to prime from then on... then after 3 they lost some key talent, but it is also worth noting thta much of that talent hasn't really proven themselves elsewhere, so it is arguable that a lot of the true talent at hand was still in the company... but regardless, they were in a state of flux, so it makes sense that nintendo threw them a softball next... but lets not forget that they still knocked that softball out of the park, even at the worst and most tumultuous state they still nailed that softball... then after dkcr they started taking on some big talent from developers like lucas arts, valve, and naughty dog... they took on like 4 or 5 big concept artists too who were both respected, and had impressive portfolios that screamed "make me into an original IP by retro!"... then they went back to dkcr, disappointing many old retro fans... some who assumed this meant the old retro was dead... but there are various other ways of looking at it, 1 is that some people at retro expressed that they didn't feel they did dkcr as well as they could have, and they wanted to take it further before leaving the franchise, which would be more about unfinished business than lack of capability. A more likely story is that dkcr sold way better than the prime games, and was likely made on a shorter dev cycle, makign it a mroe profitable use of retro than prime. This is backed up by the state of Nintendo at that time, who was just starting to push into ambitious game making again after a bit of a lul, they ahd JUST started to reinvigorate mario kart, just started to open up to young talent with splatoon, just started to re-establish the foundations of zelda with vague statements that would eventually become botw... they had just played it safe with the wii u's only 3d mario game, and had just finished running the safer and less ambitious (significantly less so than dkcr) "new" super mario franchise into the ground

the trends would suggest more ambitious projects from Nintendo moving forward, and that would include retro...

if retro's next game is announced as something disappointing.. THEN it is time to re-evaluate their position... but even still

1. Nintendo showing a lack of confidence does not mean they are incapable, just that their capabilities are not seen by nintendo, it hitns towards them being lesser, but doesn't confirm anything.

2. Nintendo putting them on another dkcr, or something else that isn't as ambitious could also be their way of pushing for more sales for the develoepr which could make the developers expansion fiscally reasonable for them... metroid prime might be more ambitious, by dkcr sold more

even with a disapointing new reveal nothign is really set ins tone about the capabilities of the developer... on the other hand, an ambitious trailer would say MUCH more their is no equivlancy between what the 2 would say... an unambitious trailer CAN say a lot about nintendo's view oif the company, but there are caveats... an ambitious trailer means an expensive game, and that means nothing shy of absolute confidence from nintendo
A genre I don't find ambitious? Dude, if Factor 5 and Rockstar North had decided, circa 2000, that they were each gonna work on Kirby and Aero the Acrobat instead of Rogue Squadron and GTA3, you'd find a grand total of zero human beings saying "why yes, rebooting those 2D platformers with nicer graphics is as ambitious as a flight/action or sandbox game." That horse won't run.

On Retro restocking? I mean, Eric Kozlowsky of Naughty Dog (the guy who said he was working on possibly his "crowning achievement" at Retro) came...and went (he's now at Defiant Studios). Gray Ginter allegedly went to Retro, but he's now at Gunfire. I'm not sure on the accuracy of this listing, and I don't have a LinkedIn so I can't research it further. But it's worth noting that Wikan (Retro's senior game designer) left, too, during the time they were rebuilding (went to id).

Conservative Nintendo of the mid-to-late Wii years was still planning a Metroid reboot with Team Ninja, hiring Sakaguchi to make an RPG, having Monolith work on a completely different take on RPGs, revamping Zelda, making a hellacious 3D Mario sequel, working out a deal with Capcom for Monster Hunter Tri, even forking out cash for Ganbarion (a developer who hadn't ever worked on an original IP) to do the type of 3D Castlevania-style game that Konami wouldn't even touch. I get why Retro wouldn't be given a project like that at the time - that's the point, really. They weren't ready for that sort of undertaking.

I hope they are now. It's a tempered hope due to previously discussed factors.
I think whatever Retro's actually making just can't match the years of hyped expectations and doubt in their value as a developer. It's like with Valve and Half Life 3. No matter what they release, we'll be left wondering, "where did those 10 years of R&D and creative growth go?"

That's another thing. In order to continue to make great games, a development studio has to keep honing their craft with practice and with game releases. Look at MonolithSoft again. 10 years ago, they were transitioning from Baiten Kaitos 2 to Soma Bringer. Since then they've released Xenoblade and Xenoblade X, while also opening a new branch near Nintendo's headquarters to help them with just about every major game release. This is what's led to them being able to put Xenoblade 2 on the Switch, which is kind of a miracle, as well as cramming the game to the brim with massive levels, complex game systems, and a ridiculously complex battle system that somehow works without a single on-screen menu.

But 10 years after Prime 3, how has Retro honed their craft, at least in regards to the deep, polished adventure game we all expect from them? Whatever they make, it might only turn out to be a slight improvement upon Prime 3. Which is not something to scoff at, but it's certainly not something that's going to show 10 years of improved game design.
If it's even a slight improvement on Prime 3, I'd be absolutely elated. Sign me up. January Direct that shit into my veins.

Monolith is an interesting comparison, because like Retro, they did the big, mind-bending, genre-freshening, critical darling. The game's since then are great in different ways, but once you've hit that one big one out of the park, all your work gets compared to it. That's a mighty shadow.

But back to Retro...part of what I look at is Nintendo since 2007. Retro used to put out software that was, purely on a technical level, console-pushing visual extravaganzas that rivaled and one-upped NOJ. But EPD and Monolith are absolutely balling right now. Good luck appreciably outdoing them.

Still...we haven't seen Retro do a full-on, demanding 3D game on an HD console. That's mind bending, because it's almost 2018. FFS, I want it out of general principal. I don't even care if it looks like an up-res of Corruption.
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
"Something non-gaming" sounds kinda funny.

A game studio with offices full of programmers and graphic designers doing something non-gaming is unlikely.
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
"Something non-gaming" sounds kinda funny.

A game studio with offices full of programmers and graphic designers doing something non-gaming is unlikely.
Non gaming doesn't mean they are doing construction... Programming and UI and such are not exclusive to games

It was factor 5 employees that ported Hulu to the switch, for example
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
Non gaming doesn't mean they are doing construction... Programming and UI and such are not exclusive to games

It was factor 5 employees that ported Hulu to the switch, for example
Do you have a link? I have been hoping Factor 5 would get their feet wet as quickly as possible. I know Julian wants to get Rogue Squadron on Switch, and too me that would be dope as hell.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
Do you have a link? I have been hoping Factor 5 would get their feet wet as quickly as possible. I know Julian wants to get Rogue Squadron on Switch, and too me that would be dope as hell.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
Julian talked about it (not specifically switch) on Nintendo voice chat podcast around when the app hit the switch
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
Non gaming doesn't mean they are doing construction... Programming and UI and such are not exclusive to games

It was factor 5 employees that ported Hulu to the switch, for example
Makes sense, but that wouldn't be a big project. I don't think a gaming studio like Retro would put more than a small team of developers to do some extra non-gaming development project. Otherwise it would be a waste. Unless we're now considering Retro not to be a big player any more.
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
I agree with him on Prime 3, the opening level made the game feel a bit too much like Halo, but beyond that, it became Prime again for the duration. Skytown being the technical achievement is no surprise, it is gorgeous and huge. Also interesting to find out that Retro was down to about 40-50 guys after the restructuring went down. That is the core team size that built Metroid Prime. Tiny by today's standards.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
Makes sense, but that wouldn't be a big project. I don't think a gaming studio like Retro would put more than a small team of developers to do some extra non-gaming development project. Otherwise it would be a waste. Unless we're now considering Retro not to be a big player any more.
Never said it was a big project, guy just said they were working on a non gaming project, that doesn't exclude them from working on a gaming project too... Hell the guy saying that (if he is even right) probably doesn't know how much staff is on it, or how long it has been in development.... He is speculating about Labo, which says even for him, he only knows that it is a non gaming project.

Plus, non gaming projects can be big in scope too... Like, for example... They could be working on middleware tools for other developers, or maybe something like that 3ds based museum tour thing Nintendo made for the louve...

I mean something like that could make sense, even if it isn't what we want... OR it could be like 1 guy working on getting Netflix up and running in the switch in cooperation with the company... And maybe THAT is the guys source "hey what are you working on"..."can't say, just something non gaming"
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
I am in the acceptance stage. I no longer think of Retro as the Prime guys, that is what they use to be, but now they have created two terrific DKC games, and I would honestly welcome a another one on Switch. TF was great, but my experience was tainted because it isn't what I wanted from Retro at that time. I am now past that, and if they can make another DKC experience that is as good or better than TF, that will be a welcome addition to the Switch library for certain.
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
kinda contradicts what we heard about who was handling the music before though, and this one isnt rumor
https://www.facebook.com/AlexanderBrandonMusic/posts/10154502222642621

but no one person makes music, so who knows. Maybe there are 2 projects growing in those halls.
Hmmm, Alexander Brandon, and David Wise.

Now, some have said David Wise is only composing some music for Funky Kong in the Switch version of Tropical Freeze, but this is all based on rumor. I forgot about Alexander Brandon, which would make me very happy if true. He created one of my all-time favorite soundtracks in a video game: Deus Ex.

I still think Retro are working on yet another DK though.
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
If they are doing another dkc... That is just depressing...I don't want them doing another Metroid either though...I want a fucking original ip damnit
 

mattavelle1

IT’S GOT A DEATH RAY!
Moderator
Well..............yep that’s actually more than I thought if this game turns out to be DK.

Honestly I was somewhat expecting them to flip them like Rare. The biggest difference is tho rare was kinda at the top of there game.
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
I like DK franchise, so that would be good for me.

About Retro being big, yeah, this is history. I don't expect anything from them. They're just a studio.
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
No surprise. Does anyone have any clue about how big Retro is? Number of employees? Number of projects they can tackle?
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
Retro Studios confirmed to be the developer behind the Tropical Freeze Switch version
Next-gen Cranky Kong required a lot of work, man.
No surprise. Does anyone have any clue about how big Retro is? Number of employees? Number of projects they can tackle?
Somewhere between 70 and 100, it seems. They say they have the bandwidth for one major project, with occasional extra capacity to assist on other studio's projects.
 

Shoulder

Your Resident Beardy Bear
I doubt it took the entire company to port over Tropical Freeze, so I am of the thought that this was a side gig, while the major work was for some other project they have going on. On the face of it, we now know what Retro have been up to, so we have that going for us, which is nice.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
I thought I remembered researching more on the size of Retro, and yep, did that just a few months ago. LinkedIn requires a sub now, but yeah, 75 seems right (plus contractors, as development ramps up).
I doubt it took the entire company to port over Tropical Freeze, so I am of the thought that this was a side gig, while the major work was for some other project they have going on. On the face of it, we now know what Retro have been up to, so we have that going for us, which is nice.
Well, we might know. Remember the non-gaming rumor, possibly Labo?

It is entirent possible that Retro's big project was Labo software, or helping with something like Bezel, and they also ported DK:TF...and that's it.

I know that everyone wants Retro to revert to 2004-ish form; that's what I want, too. I want them to be working on a new, mind-blowing IP. But from all available evidence, it's equally possible that cardboard, maybe middleware, and porting 2D platformers is what they do now.

And the sad thing? That's my optimistic hope at this point. I'm hoping they at least helped on middleware or something, because the alternative might be vaporware.
 
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The development of the cardboard toys was done partially, maybe entirely, by new hires specifically for Labo. Software was also a mix but mostly handled by 1-2 Switch/Miitopia folks.

I am one to believe that Zelda had more than just Xenoblade people helping out, but there's not even rumors of that. Middleelware seems likely only because that's been a rumored funtion of that studio as far back as Wii. Anyone hoping for more than one release out of Retro, rejoice, you got TF and the next Donkey Kong game
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
The development of the cardboard toys was done partially, maybe entirely, by new hires specifically for Labo. Software was also a mix but mostly handled by 1-2 Switch/Miitopia folks.

I am one to believe that Zelda had more than just Xenoblade people helping out, but there's not even rumors of that. Middleelware seems likely only because that's been a rumored funtion of that studio as far back as Wii. Anyone hoping for more than one release out of Retro, rejoice, you got TF and the next Donkey Kong game
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
It seems like this "rumor" has already face-planted.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starfox/comments/8icu31/since_the_fox_is_already_out_of_its_hole_thanks/

https://www.nintendo-insider.com/ru...g-on-star-fox-grand-prix-for-nintendo-switch/

I love how "corroboration" is now just a post on 4chan. That's rich.

Still, if Retro has anything in the pipeline, this would honestly seem like a logical step to me. It's not as ambitious as a new adventure game, but offers more of a creative canvas than another 2D platformer.
 
To be fair, /v/ does have a number of correct rumors under their belt, recently the Switch reveal and the spotlight contents.
This sounds real rotten, though. To develop a futuristic racer and have it not be F-Zero? I'm busting a gut thinking about it and then getting anxious because it does sound like a Nintendo thing to do.

Would be incredibly underwhelming and cause a shitstorm. It pisses off starfox fans, F-Zero fans, and Retro fans, since it would be ludicrous that this game is what they've been working on these past 5 years
 

Odo

Well-Known Member
After all these years, we can assume that F-Zero is dead. It's just a franchise from the past, like ... Alladin or Alex Kidd.

About Retro... They're just a bunch of developers working for Nintendo. Metroid Prime has almost 20 years old. It's past. It's like an old rock band that has released all their good albums. It's like Elvis. Nothing more is coming.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
By virtue of being a gigantic social media platform, of course. But that's sorta like saying GAF was all legit simply because a handful of insiders were right a handful of times. Dumpster fires occasionally start via quality fuel.

And yet...
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...retro-studios-making-star-fox-racing-spin-off
Very true, but there is a formula to legitimacy with /v/ rumors. If any of the """"""renowned"""""" leakers such as Liam or Emily or Laura denies them, the rumor is true. So it's a wait and see for me at this point.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
You know what's better than one rumor? Two rumors.

"We’ve heard the same from a source plugged into goings-on at Nintendo, and we’ve also heard from two other sources that the Austin, Texas-based Retro had a separate project that went through a rocky development cycle and may in fact be canceled."
https://kotaku.com/rumors-suggest-that-retro-studios-is-making-a-star-fox-1826020570

Be careful what you wish for, folks. If you want the old Retro Studios back, you may get the Spangenberg era.

"Rumors of the game have been swirling for several months in light of talk from some sources that Retro Studios' title has been struggling, with many at both Retro and Nintendo growing frustrated with the state of the project. These sources did not confirm whether the project being worked on was this Star Fox title."
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...-studios-working-on-star-fox-racing-game.aspx

...and before anyone says "but that gave us Prime," it also gave us a volatile studio that couldn't keep it together, had to cancel almost all of its projects, had to fire/lay off half its staff, and could easily have delivered a mediocre game instead of a legendary one if the cards fell slightly differently.
Very true, but there is a formula to legitimacy with /v/ rumors. If any of the """"""renowned"""""" leakers such as Liam or Emily or Laura denies them, the rumor is true. So it's a wait and see for me at this point.
The Robertson-Rogers Rule is in effect.
 
Its impossible to believe Retro rumors. Either someone's feeding the journos false info, or they're all cashing in on the clickbait


Did anyone ever predict Donkey Kong? Why does suddenly everyone have a source despite proving nothing prior? Retro also worked on DKTF port. c'mon. not buying it.
 

EvilTw1n

Even my henchmen think I'm crazy.
Moderator
Some interesting tidbits in here.

https://www.polygon.com/2018/5/29/17386066/the-rocky-story-of-retro-studios-before-metroid-prime

(Yes, it's Polygon. Deal with it.)

I knew the working conditions weren't great pre-Kelbaugh, but that sounds pretty shitty. Especially the bit on the bonuses/overtime. It would be amazing Prime and Echoes turned out so well, but then you read the rest of that and realize that early Retro was full of rockstars. Once they cut back to the best of the best, you had 75-ish of the very best Western developers alive working on these games.

(Interesting note: LinkedIn, as of today, lists 132 employees at Retro. I remember reading one of those IGN articles that pegged early Retro at 200, before the axe fell. I think there was 70-75 in the credits for DKC. So if they've gotten more on board...)
 
I can't keep up with employees in video games. It seems like developers switch/layoff/hire new people all the time. Another one that comes to mind is People Can Fly. Some people left to make Flying Hog, and I believe some are now in the new studio called Neon Giant, who also has people from Machine Games which formed from people who left Starbreeze.

So Retro isn't the Retro of yore, but didn't they hire some Naughty Dog guys? Or did they leave too?

All that said, I love all 5 games Retro made, so I'm not too worried. Some goes with Sucker Punch, even though some people who worked on Infamous and Sly Cooper left, I'm still looking forward to their new game.
 

theMightyME

Owner of The Total Screen
I can't keep up with employees in video games. It seems like developers switch/layoff/hire new people all the time. Another one that comes to mind is People Can Fly. Some people left to make Flying Hog, and I believe some are now in the new studio called Neon Giant, who also has people from Machine Games which formed from people who left Starbreeze.

So Retro isn't the Retro of yore, but didn't they hire some Naughty Dog guys? Or did they leave too?

All that said, I love all 5 games Retro made, so I'm not too worried. Some goes with Sucker Punch, even though some people who worked on Infamous and Sly Cooper left, I'm still looking forward to their new game.
After the retro exodus they hired on a ton of big developers, people from naughty dog, Lucas arts, and a show if other huge studios

Some of those new hires are gone now too... But they are constantly hiring new people
 

Goodtwin

Well-Known Member
I am over the idea that Retro needs to be making Prime level games and have moved on to the idea that they just need to be making more than two games per console generation. If that means a DKC plus whatever, fine, but it just seems to be a waste to have a talented studio not working on multiple projects. Nintendo needs to have more first party content than ever before, western third party devs simply aren't going to be a driving force for their platforms. Retro should have Fzero, Wave Race, and 1080 all in development right now. Under supervision from EAD for sure, but that isn't any different that Metroid or DKC.
 
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