Zelda Lore/Theory Thread: You Were Warned

FriedShoes

MLG
Moderator
#1
With a very intense focus on Breath of the Wild to start.

After much off-forum discussion and prodding from various members, here it is, a thread for everyone to wall of text each other in. For now we will discuss where Breath of the Wild fits within the timeline, rigorously since there's just so little we know and yet speculation is massive. We can also discuss the lighter things, like how the Shiekah are the LoZ Illuminati pulling the strings from behind the scenes (it only makes complete sense).

[ Keep in mind, I'm fairly lore illiterate, though I have done my own research on the series and games to know more than your average fan. My personal knowledge of the series is mostly centered around the 2D games, the only 3D game I've played to completion was Skyward Sword. I only got partway through Twilight Princess before finding that I wasn't liking it. ]

The Timeline
*You can squeeze A Link Between Worlds just above the start of the Golden Era, or right on it. Unless someone wants to debate this point, its most assuredly in-between Awakening and The Legend of Zelda.


What do we know for sure about the plot of Breath of the Wild?
100 years ago, the Calamity Ganon appeared suddenly and brought ruin and corruption to the kingdom, killing a lot of people. Hyrule Castle has been able to contain that evil for these past 100 years, but only just. Calamity Ganon festers around the castle, swirling and building strength for the day it can break free (or be set free???)
At around the same time Calamity Ganon was screwing around 100 years ago, Link was put to sleep (maybe???), and is awoken 100 years later by some mysterious voice. This voice keeps telling Link to remember, what that is we don't know.


But we've got clues.
Ooh, a whole lot, I'm gonna list out what I've seen and then list out a theory or two and everyone else can add other things they've found.
Clues???
Post-Ocarina Confirmed- Aonuma has confirmed in a recent Game Informer article that the game takes place after Ocarina of Time. Which means fuck all.
The Hylian Alphabet - so here it is, mostly. A lot of future in-game clues will come thanks to this. A lot of text has been translated, mostly benign although some are enlightening and funny.


The Temple of Time- Directly titled as such in the game. Important location in Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword I guess. Locations of this Temple vary a whole lot in-between the games, despite the three games being tightly connected. In Breath of the Wild, the ToT retains its OoT look, as it's pretty much in ruins in Twilight Princess. I'm not certain about it's location though. This would seemingly place the game in the Child Timeline, but I'm not so sure about that.


Goddess Hylia- This is particularly interesting. The Goddess Hylia is named outright by the NPCs and seen in-game via statues representing her.
The Goddess Hylia is only integral in Skyward Sword, not directly mentioned as a deity in any of the other games, seemingly forgotten through time in favor of the Triforce Goddesses. And yet she's named in this game, her statue even appears in the Temple of Time, which makes no sense. Probably an aberration, but that could be said about a lot of these hints, lol

Bridge of Eldin/Great Bridge of Hylia- That bridge Link is crossing. Another connection to Twilight Princess, although I'd argue that A Link To the Past also has a similar bridge in a location near Lake Hylia.
If it is the Bridge of Eldin, it would probably place the game in the Child Timeline, since it's not built in the Adult Timeline. Nothing is directly stated to be a Bridge of Eldin in the Downfall Timeline.


Koroks- These lame Kokiri evolutions post-Great Sea flooding. Only a appearance in Wind Waker, and this game I guess. Some look similar to those that appeared in Wind Waker, though its probably just Nintendo being lazy.


"Ancient Sea"- Just shooting off the Wind Waker connection, we have another possible hint.

This ingredient is found on solid earth, meaning that the Great Plateau and possibly all of Hyrule was underwater at some point. Maybe.

Beedle-
He's in the game. Appears in Adult Timeline.

Great Fairy-
Common character in Zelda games, vary wildly so no real hints in her appearance here

Gorons-
Have been in existence since the beginning, though not depicted in the Downfall era.

Great Deku Tree-
Could be the one from Twilight Princess, could be the one from Wind Waker, could be one from some Downfall sprout. The presence of the Koroks and the Tree make me think that its WW related, but can't be sure.

Skyloft? -
This is a bit of a reach, but so is anything Skyward Sword related at this point. Geography does match in my opinion. The Old Man does mention that the Great Plateau is the birthplace of the kingdom. Skyloft fits that definition nicely.


The Master Sword's Location- Man, this thing has been through hell it seems like. Its all busted and maybe rusted? It's definitely been overtaken by the elements, seems its been quite a while since someone has touched it.
The location is iffy to place, but it looks to me like the Lost Woods, the area the Master Sword is found in during Link's journey in A Link To the Past. It very much resembles the promotional art as well, god rays and all.


For the record, the Master Sword is only found in this location in the Defeated Hero/Downfall timeline. I guess it's technically in the forest of Twilight Princess, but not in this way.

Calamity Ganon- Ganon is Ganon in this game, not Ganondorf, not Demise. It doesn't even have a pronoun attached to it, Calamity Ganon is an evil, corrupt, and deadly force of doom. Ganon being Ganon is important because it would mean Ganondorf has already transformed into Ganon, and the idea of it being a force rather than a being could possibly spell other things for the timeline placement of BotW.

Speaking of his current predicament

Hyrule Castle- The fact that Hyrule Castle stands means that this could not take place in the Defeated Hero/Downfall Timeline, as Hyrule Castle is replaced by Ganon's following the Hero's defeat.

Shiekah's Prominence-



I dont know what this exactly means, but good info to know nonetheless. Its worth noting that Sheikah are not very prominent at all in the Adult Timeline, as they are presumed to be extinct. Their references in the Child Timeline are a bit strange, as the Sheikah symbol and an offshoot of it appears throughout the game, and even in the Twilight Realm, but they are never mentioned by name. Impa, a Sheikah, appears readily throughout all of the Fallen Hero Timeline though.

Telepathic Zelda- A reach, but if we assume that the voice talking to Link is Zelda, its a nice connection to the franchise as a whole. Zelda can telepathically communicate with Link in some ways. However, direct talking like seen in this game is something she only does in A Link To The Past. A reach, but that game is my favorite so I'm taking all I can get

Cryptic Aounuma Quotes- These should be taken a bit less seriously, but they are still very intriguing.
While making the latest title for The Legend of Zelda, when I look at this remake, I feel like this is the origin point of the new title we’re making right now. After playing this game you may have some “Oh I see!” moments when playing the [upcoming] new game, so I’ll be glad if you play Twilight Princess HD while waiting in anticipation for the latest title of Legend of Zelda.
...
It’s not the save data itself, but “Part of the data saved in the Wolf Link amiibo can be brought over and used in the new title too”. For some people, when they play the new title, they might feel the urge to play Twilight Princess HD one more time.
The second quote can be attributed to how we now know the Wolf Link amiibo works, its the first quote that's just been nagging me.
Another one
At a group Q&A with reporters on Sunday, Zelda producer Eiji Aonuma was asked where the game fit into the franchise timeline. Aonuma said he didn’t want to say much about the story at the moment but said he’d stare a hint. He noted that that the t-shirt he was wearing showed the symbol for the Sheikah stones and that it was the same one from The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time. (In Breath of the Wild, the reawakened Link uses a high-tech item called the “Sheikah slate”). Aonuma also reminded people that, at the start of this game, Link is told he’s been asleep for 100 years. “He teased: “You can decide what this means.”
This mang
If you spot any other references (and I deem them worthy), I'll add them above.
 
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FriedShoes

MLG
Moderator
#2
Little Theories???
Who The Fuck Is This Guy? [SOLVED]



There have been many guesses as to who this Old Man is. We don't really get any clues. Not really.
An old dude with a nice long beard, carrying a staff with a lantern I think hanging off it. He's also adept with the paraglider. Also he's fucking huge, towering over Link, he doesn't seem to be a pushover build-wise either.
As your main source of exposition early in the game and as seen above, he has probably been around for a while as well. He knows who you are, he knows about the voice you are hearing. He probably shouldn't know that right?

Theory #1: That's Fucking Link- Or a Link, or something. Old Link, L has come to, etc. The main reasons for this guess is his skill with the paraglider, his knowledge of the world and Link, and he somehow knows about that voice talking to you in your head.
Makes some sense, and having an Old Link guiding a new Link isn't new to the series. It has been done in Twilight Princess, as the Hero's Shade is ghostly Majora's Mask Link training the Twilight Hero Link. It has been done, maybe, in A Link Between Worlds, as the character Gramps in that game is implied to be a Link/Hero of some kind (possibly the one from ALTTP <3), since he's unusually strong for his age, able to wield all the weapons Link can, and can even handle the Master Sword, which is not possible for people other than Links.

Theory #2: That's Fucking King Daphnes-

A stretch in my opinion, but I guess the resemblance is there. No other reasons other than looks, but the other connections to Wind Waker have fueled this speculation and it's among the most popular.

Theory #3: That's Fucking Rauru- Absolutely zero resemblance to the sage Rauru, maybe the eybrows and mustache shape are the same. Maybe if you squint at his owl appearance you'll get something.

Hmm, maybe. There is a suspicious line in the game that is probably just a reference but nonetheless a rallying point for this theory.

I haven't played Ocarina of Time to know if the owl's personality is similar to this dude. Anyway, final theory

Theory #4: That's Fucking Nothing- It's just a reference to the various Old Men that appear throughout the series. Old dudes with hoods and big, white, bushy beards hanging out by campfires.
Although it is speculated that some of those Old Men, particularly the one in the original Legend of Zelda, are in fact former Kings of Hyrule. I mean, he can't exactly rule in that castle now, can he?
Hmm....

Its a King.
King Rhoam, Zelda's father. Also he's a ghost.


Ayy LMAO [SOLVED]


Oh shit, get me Will Smith now!
What, he doesnt want to stop this unless his children are involved?
Fuck!

Theory #1: Independence Day- The most outlandish theory so far is that it's a literal alien spaceship. Although, its not that outlandish, as aliens are kind of a part of Zelda fiction, strange as that may be. And with the big tech focus of the game, who knows, it might just be a crazy UFO. The little geometry seen on it doesnt make me a believer though. It could be just a regular flying ship, no aliens needed.
Theory #2: Skyloft- I'm not personally seeing this as I believe Skyloft has fallen to Hyrule at this point. The general idea of a floating island like Sky City makes sense to me, although I'm not so certain since this one moves and looks to rotate too.
Theory #3: Twilight Realm- Some speculate that this is a Twilight portal. I guess, but it seems goddamn huge for one.

Solved thanks to the most recent trailer. Giant flying ship seen there is the flying object seen here.

Link's True Nature
Some of these will feed into larger timeline theories, but I've got to just state them. These are barring the more sane idea of "its just another Link".

Theory #1: Link Bot- Every Nintendo game recently has had robots or mechs of some kind. Breath of the Wild has Guardians. But does it stop there? Not according to some lunatics.

It's all in the eyes, folks. The Sheikah have gotten so crazy with their backdoor meddling they created their own Hero, ready to do the ridding of Ganon whenever needed. That's not Zelda in your head, that's just an electronic message being sent to you by these Illuminati fucks!
Or so the theorists would have you believe. This falls apart under scrutiny, I believe. Hold up, what now, the robot was just a test phase?

Theory #2: The Links from Brazil- The Sheikah's unethical practices know no bounds.
He's a clone of a Hero that has fallen or failed. Who? Don't know yet, maybe the one from ALTTP. He doesn't seem to have any memories from his past, at least this early on, because his clone brain is still connecting the dots, yo. Not buying it?


Theory #3: Link of the Dead- Rather than being a clone of a Hero who has died trying to stop evil or something, how about it just being a Link who failed, was brought to this supertech chamber to heal or be brought back to life. It took him 100 years, but hey at least it worked and he's back in time to stop Calamity Ganon from destroying the world.
Lending credence to this theory is the text that surrounds the pod Link wakes up in. Very likely says "CARE UNIT" in the Hylian text of this game.



Alas, just another Link who got merc'd and indeed it did take 100 years to heal his injuries. For some reason.
__________________________________________
POST GAME AWARDS FOOTAGE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dat Ain't Falco! [SOLVED]


Well another trailer, another bundle of pointless speculation. Who dis?
Free of origin, his design outright interesting. Some of his accessories, particularly earrings and the hairband he wears, directly mirror Link's, only difference being the color. Hell, even his eyes match those accessories, same with Link. Furthermore, there's his distinct blue scarf. Thanks to item descriptions and this trailer, blue has been shown to be a very important royal color. This possibly signifies a close relationship with the royalty in Hyrule.

Anyway, aside from being an entirely different race of beings, the internet has some thoughts.

Theory #1: Rito- The Rito are a race of bird-people from Twilight Princess.

They appeared more human-like than this particular creature does, however. Another bird-man appears in the gameplay demo, named Kass. He looks like a significantly different species of bird, it would debunk this but no two beaks were alike in Wind Waker so it probably doesnt signify much. As mentioned, they look more bird than human, so if this theory is correct, it would have to be sometime before or after Wind Waker.

Theory #2: Oocoo- The Oocoo are a race of bird-like beings from Twilight Princess and they look HORRIFYING
They were said to be much more human-like in appearance long ago, having evolved into these dodos much later. It is implied in Twilight Princess that they were once very close to royalty and adept in technology. The resemblance again is not very apparent.

Theory #3: Fokka- What did you call me?
These are birdmen enemies are from Zelda 2, a game I plan on playing very soon. Probably the closest we have to the birds in the trailer in terms of appearance alone, and they also are very adept in combat. They do not seem like fliers.

Theory #4: Loftwings- Loftwings are the birds the Skyloft people would ride around on.
Some have decided to believe that these birdmen are descendants of Loftwings. Not much of a resemblance. The bow he has on him has tips that somewhat resemble the Hylian Crest, which was based off of the Loftwings appearance. On his scarf there is crest of some form that doesnt resemble anything we know of yet. He flies to a giant ship that is in the shape of a bird, possible reference to Loftwing.

Solved thanks to Famitsu. Article let loose some details on the characters, including that the bird dude is a Rito. Very weird.

It's Obviously Zelda but Lets Be Stupid [SOLVED]


I personally will chastise any idea that states this is anything other than Zelda. I will state my position before digging into the dumb.
First off, I think they are the same person. The blue on Zelda in her outdoor gear signifies royalty. On top of that there are gold trimmings on her gloves and clothing, and a very stylish shirt with a high collar, all scream royalty to me.
In the dress, not much else is seen other than similar white, blue and gold colors. Considering that the face is hidden in both shots, it leads me to believe they are the same person.
Also to pile on, I dont think this character will be playable at all. Doesnt make her any less important.

But here is what other smarties think.

Theory #1: Hurr its FemLink- ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
This stupidity idea contradicts Aounuma's own words, words of other officials at Nintendo, and words said in the game. The main reasoning for this idea is due to the fact that "she's wearing exactly the same thing Link is wearing", which any sane person can easily see is not the case. Another thought is that she's also holding a Shiekah Slate, something Link has been seen to exclusively handle so far. I have nothing to directly counter this, but if Link has one Zelda might have one. Also could be a case I'll bring up later where its a flashback or cutscene of some kind.
In my mind if it was a female Link, there would be no reason to hide her face.

Theory #1: Durr its Link's sister- I wont chastise this too much. Its possible that the characters are not the same person. I still think it is possibly pretty dumb because its 100 years later and Link's sister, or any friend, would be dead at that point. HOWEVER there is a new theory some are pushing where the events in the game are depicted non-linearly. Meaning that some scenes seen in the trailer are perhaps flashbacks or what you play before going to sleep. I find the former the more likely of the two, since Nintendo is pretty firm on saying that what we saw at E3 is the beginning of the game. Possibly lending some credence to this theory is the way the Master Sword looks in the trailer. Its much more pristine than the one we saw in the reveal trailer, meaning either you restore it or its before it got all busted up.

Solved thanks to COMMON SENSE. But also thanks to the latest amazing trailer. What a shock.

Wew lad, that's just the small stuff. I'm going to keep the next bigger picture theories as brief as I can.
 
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FriedShoes

MLG
Moderator
#3
Timeline???
Theory #1: A Post-Wind Waker World (Adult Timeline)-
This theory places the game far after the event's of Wind Waker and presumably Spirit Tracks. It would have to be a distant distant time since then. The Koroks and the "ancient sea" and possibly King Daphnes are too big to ignore. Not to mention the bird people, evolved from Rito perhaps.
The origins of this Hyrule in this game follow two schools of thought. In one, you have the seas just magically unflooding for some reason, and the magic flood dissipates, returning Old Hyrule back to solid ground. In another origin point, you have the Koroks returning the land back naturally, as the Great Deku Tree had dreamed about
"Forests hold great power: they can change one tiny island into a much larger island. Soon, a day will come when all the islands are one, connected by earth and grove. And the people who live on that great island will be able to join hands and, together, create a better world. Such is my dream."
The royal family then moved back to Old Hyrule, set up their kingdom there and began to flourish. At some point a genius, and it would have to be a Link, removed the Master Sword from out of Ganondorf's stony skull and placed it in the Lost Woods for safe keeping, it was all rusted and such. This allowed Ganondorf to be unsealed and resurrected, where he just got mad and became the force known as Calamity Ganon. He killed many innocents until he was sealed away in the perimeter of Hyrule Castle, where he's been swirling for 100 years. What about Link? No explanation on his origin in this theory.
It is possible that the sword could have been removed from Ganondorf and not caused anything immediately, he's dead. Demise/Ganon could find another way.

Theory #2: Downfall World-
So things just keep getting worse for Hyrule. Even after some relief following Zelda 2, where the Hero prevent's Ganon's Resurrection, Ganon comes back anyway, destroying everything. The attack left Hyrule in a decay, and it's inhabitants hopeless. Nature took over as Link slept...for some reason...
This theory places the game firmly after Zelda 2, making this game Zelda 3. The game can't take place in-between Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, because this Hyrule is already long gone, much like the one you'd probably find in the Downfall Timeline. There is no Triforce, its not mentioned or seen in the game (thus far), Link's hand doesnt shine with the familiar shape. The Hylian Crest doesn't appear with the symbol either, its just the wilderness and Sheikah tech. The Sheikah's prominence and importance in the game seems to lend credence to the game taking place in this timeline, since its the one where they arent exactly extinct. The location of the Master Sword would fit this theory as well.
Theory #2a-
An offshoot of this Downfall setting. This would be a pseudo-direct sequel to Ocarina of Time and take place before, presumably, A Link To the Past. So in Ocarina of Time, the Hero of Time Link is defeated, but not killed. Or maybe he is. Either way, he is taken to The Shrine of Resurrection, where he is left to heal and recuperate as Zelda and the Sages seal Ganon in the castle and keep him there for the next 100 years. As their hold wanes and Calamity Ganon's power rises, OoT Link is reawakened, fully recovered and ready to help seal Ganon back into the Sacred Realm. The idea of this BotW Link being a Hero before falling asleep is not based on much, but the healing pod idea has some very direct evidence. Also, we have the clothing found in chests outside the chamber for Link to wear. These are meant for him but they don't fit him correctly, they are too short and tight. Could be a hint that he aged while in the chamber, although that's not indicative of anything. The appearance of the Master Sword could be explained with this theory as well, as it looked ravaged and torn and burned, as it would following a defeated fight against Ganon.

As a counter to this theory, the time before Link's sleep sounds seemingly alive, while the one in Zelda 1 and 2 weren't exactly. Maybe it takes place before that?

Theory #3- Convergence

It all returns to nothing.

Aounuma has stated that many players who played TPHD will have "Oh I see" moments when playing Breath of the Wild. It is an origin point for him. While this hints at a direct connection, many don't buy it since the world doesn't quite make sense to them under this.
They've instead chosen to go insane and look for deeper clues within TPHD and have come away with this slab above.
The slab appears in Twilight Princess HD's Castle Town. It depicts things that should not be there. Not being the biggest lore guy (I could have fooled you, eh?) I'm not sure what they are other than one major thing. The middle portion of the slab depicts Rito, a race of beings evolved from Zora. The problem with this is that the race does not exist in the timeline that Twilight Princess is set in (the Child Timeline), they exist in the Adult Timeline, you might remember them from Wind Waker.
So why are they depicted on a slab in a game with no possible connection to them? It's hard to say. Could just be a neat easter egg, as many of these clues and references could be.
Convergence theorists insist that this is just emblematic of the whole Breath of the Wild game.
Something is very wrong with space-time in this Hyrule. There are too many elements that should not fit together but exist in the same game. The only way to make sense of it is to succumb and accept that timelines are crashing into each other. It's a Calamity (Ganon) on Infinite Hyrules, as elements begin to blend together, breaking all Zelda timeline rules.
This theory doesn't go over any plot, only to say that everything makes sense because nothing makes sense.

I haven't really spotted any theories directly connecting Twilight Princess to this game, other than the Aounuma quote.
DING DING DING, new trailer, new theory

*NEW*Theory #4- Before Twilight (Child Timeline)-
This theory takes into account the mural above. Instead of depicting events from other timelines, what if it's merely depicting events of the past?
A piece of architecture worth looking at is Castle Town, or what's left of it.

Pretty much identical to the one in Twilight Princess, location and architecture.
The birdmen seen in the trailer don't look exactly like the one in the mural, but its good enough for legend's sake. The Ooca are said to have been much more human-like in the past, this theory speculates that BOTW will show that process in action. It would show a lot of things in action, such as why the Master Sword is in a seemingly different Temple in Twilight Princess, why the Kokiri are monkeys, where da Sheikah at, who dem Interlopers, etc. There's no real story beats here, just people connecting dots. It seems just as likely that this takes place after Twilight Princess fmpov, but we dont have much to go on with that and if it were the case, the murals become a mystery yet again.

I'll be adding theories thought up in this thread above, and revising should anyone see fit. Otherwise, debate, challenge and speculate away.
 
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#4
Here's something to think about from me.

Gdorf is pretty dang hard to kill, in fact he usually can't be killed at all, and has to be weakened by a master sword wielding link,and sealed by sages... Because he possesses the triforce of power.

But there are a few times Ol Gmoney relinquishes his triforce either voluntarily... Or otherwise.

Ganondorf formed the triforce in windwaker to make a wish... Unfortunately he didn't read the instruction manual, and the king made a wish instead, and the peices of the triforce scattered dbz style.

When Link replaced ganondorfs spine with the masters word, that was it. He didn't just turn to stone, without the triforce peice in him he died. For good. Which means... That they would just need a new reincarnation of Demises hatred.

In TP the power of the triforce abandoned him like an unwanted kitten. And he died as well.

So assuming that its in one of those timelines, Ganondorf is no longer a vessel for Ganon, as the Vessel was destroyed, as opposed to just sealed.... So the demonic porkchop is free of earthly restraints...
 
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Koenig

The Architect
#5
I wonder if the Guardians originally served the Shiekah before being corrupted and turned against them by Ganon. Judging from their design, this seems to be likely as they are very similar in construction to the shrines and equipment shown; likewise "Guardian" seems like a very neutral if not benevolent name for such a hostile creature.

This is probably incorrect, but I thought it worth sharing all things considered.
 

Karkashan

Married to Chrom
#6
Couple of things, since I'm kinda a bit of a lore-fangirl:

Ganondorf has canonically been reincarnated. New memories, life, motivations, the whole thing. Somehow he found out about his previous self and used Vaati in a gambit to become the Demon King, Ganon in truth. (This is Four Swords Adventures)

Hylia did not replace nor was she replaced by the golden goddesses. The trio were known as simply the "Elder Gods" in the time of Skyward Sword, with Hylia (and others like the Desert Collosus, the giants of Termina, etc. etc.) being one of the lower pantheon.

grimabepraised
 
#7
The Oracle games basically showed us that anyone can resurrect Ganon if they believe hard enough, so the fact Ganon is in a Zelda game doesn't say much.

Personally, I am leaning towards this being a dried up Hyrule from Wind Waker.

I heard another person say they think since the demo started off in a "Resurrection" Chamber, they think it's from the downfall era. Link died, Ganon's running loose, and they resurrect Link as a ditch effort before the Sages seal him in the backstory of Link to the Past.

All in all, I find the timeline interested, but the games rarely use it. Sure it was neat in Wind Waker when you go below the ocean, or how Majora's Mask is a sequel to kid Link, but each game is mostly it's own thing. I don't know if they'll change it here. I kinda hope they do though, because I do love the backstory and lore of Hyrule and all, but each game essentially boils down to rescue Zelda from Ganon, here's ANOTHER explanation of the sacred realm yadda yadda.

Skyward Sword did offer something new in that regard, so I'm hoping BotW will continue that.

Another part of my thinks Nintendo is just content on making this shit up as they go along. The dog race from the volcanoe and the robots are my favorite races in Zelda now, and Skyward is the first game in the timeline, where the fuck are the dogs in future games? It's stuff like that that makes me think Nintendo will continue making games and inserting them into the timeline wherever they want.

I also like it when Zelda games step away from everything like Link's Awakening and Majora's Mask.
 

Karkashan

Married to Chrom
#8
The Oracle games basically showed us that anyone can resurrect Ganon if they believe hard enough, so the fact Ganon is in a Zelda game doesn't say much.

.
Well, not so much "wish hard enough" but rather use the power of sacred flames of darkness that are lit by the power of conquest and upheaval in conjunction with the blood of someone with a magically powerful bloodline. As Zelda was not only the reincarnation of Hylia but also her direct blood descendant, this would've allowed Ganon to be properly resurrected. Twinrova, while having a connection to Ganondorf on account of their past history together, weren't nearly powerful enough to allow his mind to fully return.

---

To expand on the "downfall" timeline bit - This timeline is actually the most prosperous and stable of the three timelines, as the royal family used the power of the triforce to strengthen the land and to foster peace between the various races and nations.

Here's a quick rundown -

Ganon seizes the completed Triforce for his own, and instead of rushing blindly into conquest, he slowly builds an army of corrupted humans that he turns into his own demon army. However, he is found out, and his attempts at conquest are thwarted and he is sealed within the Sacred Realm.

He is later slain in battle by Link of LTTP, ressurected by Twinrova, then slain once more.

Resurrected again by Yuga, he joins with the sorceror and fights yet another Link, ultimately being defeated.

LOZ happens, but so far into the future it is unknown if it is even the same Ganon as in OOT.

praisegrima
 
#9
Well, not so much "wish hard enough" but rather use the power of sacred flames of darkness that are lit by the power of conquest and upheaval in conjunction with the blood of someone with a magically powerful bloodline. As Zelda was not only the reincarnation of Hylia but also her direct blood descendant, this would've allowed Ganon to be properly resurrected. Twinrova, while having a connection to Ganondorf on account of their past history together, weren't nearly powerful enough to allow his mind to fully return.

---

To expand on the "downfall" timeline bit - This timeline is actually the most prosperous and stable of the three timelines, as the royal family used the power of the triforce to strengthen the land and to foster peace between the various races and nations.

Here's a quick rundown -

Ganon seizes the completed Triforce for his own, and instead of rushing blindly into conquest, he slowly builds an army of corrupted humans that he turns into his own demon army. However, he is found out, and his attempts at conquest are thwarted and he is sealed within the Sacred Realm.

He is later slain in battle by Link of LTTP, ressurected by Twinrova, then slain once more.

Resurrected again by Yuga, he joins with the sorceror and fights yet another Link, ultimately being defeated.

LOZ happens, but so far into the future it is unknown if it is even the same Ganon as in OOT.

praisegrima
Yeah, I know there's a bit more to it than that, but I'm just bringing up the point that Nintendo can make up any ritual/spell/thing to resurrect Ganon even if a previous game killed him.

It's like Dracula in Castlevania games. A lunar eclipse in Japan brings his castle back....in the lunar eclipse. Sure why not.
 

Karkashan

Married to Chrom
#10
Yeah, I know there's a bit more to it than that, but I'm just bringing up the point that Nintendo can make up any ritual/spell/thing to resurrect Ganon even if a previous game killed him.

It's like Dracula in Castlevania games. A lunar eclipse in Japan brings his castle back....in the lunar eclipse. Sure why not.
Well, they did seal the castle in an eclipse in the first place.

praisegrima
 
#11
I wonder if the Guardians originally served the Shiekah before being corrupted and turned against them by Ganon. Judging from their design, this seems to be likely as they are very similar in construction to the shrines and equipment shown; likewise "Guardian" seems like a very neutral if not benevolent name for such a hostile creature.

This is probably incorrect, but I thought it worth sharing all things considered.
Thats not a reach imo, there's definitely a connection. They wouldnt be called Guardians either unless thats what they once were. Their wreckage are shrewn all over the plateau. What their purpose was is unknown. I kinda lean on the crazy belief that they dont attack Link because they have been turned, but because Link is different in someway.
When the tiny ones are destoyed, some of their parts are called "Ancient Springs". Whats interesting about this is that the description mentions that the parts are "light enough to float on water". Quite a strange detail, eh?

I wonder if there are symobls on their body that can be translated.
 
#13
This is a somewhat better look and I cant make anything out. Geometry seems like an island, but my heart so wants it to be some flying ship.

Thats not a reach imo, there's definitely a connection. They wouldnt be called Guardians either unless thats what they once were. Their wreckage are shrewn all over the plateau. What their purpose was is unknown. I kinda lean on the crazy belief that they dont attack Link because they have been turned, but because Link is different in someway.
When the tiny ones are destoyed, some of their parts are called "Ancient Springs". Whats interesting about this is that the description mentions that the parts are "light enough to float on water". Quite a strange detail, eh?

I wonder if there are symobls on their body that can be translated.
Also to revise, they do blow up in water, so maybe not lol.

Is Twilight Princess, the biggest world they've created until this game? I feel like I (and others) might be reading into Aounuma's quote in a way he never intended, instead what he just meant was that, gameplay-wise, this is the biggest Zelda world created and playing TPHD will give you that feeling of a big Hyrule, one you will have some deja-vu over when you play BotW.
 
#16
I mean in the Zelda universe specifically.
Its definitely the largest land based Zelda. The only point of contention would be windwaker which I think might have it beat.

Each square of the great sea is a square klick, making windwaker a clean 49 km squared.

Now we can actually figure this out pretty easily with some simple deductive reasoning.

BotW is 12x larger than TP, but still smaller than XcX, which was 400 km squared.

So multiply WW by 12, if the answer is more than XcC, its definitely bigger than TP.

49*12=588 > 400. Windwaker was larger.
 
#18
Updated very slightly.
One little theory has been solved, that being the identity of the flying thing in the sky. Turns out its just a flying ship.

The trailer has brought upon us some new things to ogle at as well. Amending and adding 2 littles and 1 timeline.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#19
Another thought is that she's also holding a Shiekah Slate, something Link has been seen to exclusively handle so far. I have nothing to directly counter this, but if Link has one Zelda might have one.
My guess is that Zelda's quest is the same as Link's initially, and she's running around in those traveler clothes as a normal NPC, maybe even with you sometimes. Also, she probably uses the Sheikah slate to communicate with Link, similar to how Sahasrahla and Zelda used the telepathic tiles in A Link to the Past to talk to Link.

 

Odo

Well-Known Member
#20
Flying ship..
Technology..
Lost civilisations..
A bloke who looks like alien at the end of that small dungeon we saw on that gameplay...

I knew it. Zelda is going Alien.

Link is an alien hybrid, aliens are conquering the world, ganondorf is the alien master. Zelda is an alien princess but nobody knows. Link is in another planet but he doesn't know. All Links of the franchise were alien hybrids, every game looks like the same because it's everything on Link's mind. It's matrix.

This theory makes sense. :cool:
 
#21
With a very intense focus on Breath of the Wild to start.

After much off-forum discussion and prodding from various members, here it is, a thread for everyone to wall of text each other in. For now we will discuss where Breath of the Wild fits within the timeline, rigorously since there's just so little we know and yet speculation is massive. We can also discuss the lighter things, like how the Shiekah are the LoZ Illuminati pulling the strings from behind the scenes (it only makes complete sense).

[ Keep in mind, I'm fairly lore illiterate, though I have done my own research on the series and games to know more than your average fan. My personal knowledge of the series is mostly centered around the 2D games, the only 3D game I've played to completion was Skyward Sword. I only got partway through Twilight Princess before finding that I wasn't liking it. ]

The Timeline

*You can squeeze A Link Between Worlds just above the start of the Golden Era, or right on it. Unless someone wants to debate this point, its most assuredly in-between Awakening and The Legend of Zelda.


What do we know for sure about the plot of Breath of the Wild?
100 years ago, the Calamity Ganon appeared suddenly and brought ruin and corruption to the kingdom, killing a lot of people. Hyrule Castle has been able to contain that evil for these past 100 years, but only just. Calamity Ganon festers around the castle, swirling and building strength for the day it can break free (or be set free???)
At around the same time Calamity Ganon was screwing around 100 years ago, Link was put to sleep (maybe???), and is awoken 100 years later by some mysterious voice. This voice keeps telling Link to remember, what that is we don't know.


But we've got clues.
Ooh, a whole lot, I'm gonna list out what I've seen and then list out a theory or two and everyone else can add other things they've found.
Clues???

The Hylian Alphabet- so here it is, mostly. A lot of future in-game clues will come thanks to this. A lot of text has been translated, mostly benign although some are enlightening and funny.

The Temple of Time- Directly titled as such in the game. Important location in Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword I guess. Locations of this Temple vary a whole lot in-between the games, despite the three games being tightly connected. In Breath of the Wild, the ToT retains its OoT look, as it's pretty much in ruins in Twilight Princess. I'm not certain about it's location though. This would seemingly place the game in the Child Timeline, but I'm not so sure about that.


Goddess Hylia- This is particularly interesting. The Goddess Hylia is named outright by the NPCs and seen in-game via statues representing her.

The Goddess Hylia is only integral in Skyward Sword, not directly mentioned as a deity in any of the other games, seemingly forgotten through time in favor of the Triforce Goddesses. And yet she's named in this game, her statue even appears in the Temple of Time, which makes no sense. Probably an aberration, but that could be said about a lot of these hints, lol

Bridge of Eldin/Great Bridge of Hylia- That bridge Link is crossing. Another connection to Twilight Princess, although I'd argue that A Link To the Past also has a similar bridge in a location near Lake Hylia.
If it is the Bridge of Eldin, it would probably place the game in the Child Timeline, since it's not built in the Adult Timeline. Nothing is directly stated to be a Bridge of Eldin in the Downfall Timeline.


Koroks- These lame Kokiri evolutions post-Great Sea flooding. Only a appearance in Wind Waker, and this game I guess. Some look similar to those that appeared in Wind Waker, though its probably just Nintendo being lazy.
.SpoilerTarget" style="padding-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; font-family: Calibri, "\\'Trebuchet MS\\'", Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 23px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(239, 237, 225); border-width: 1px; border-style: solid; border-color: rgb(255, 255, 255) rgb(221, 221, 235) rgb(179, 179, 189); border-radius: 4px; box-shadow: rgb(200, 200, 210) 0px 1px 4px 0px; outline: none; cursor: pointer; height: 25px;">Spoiler: Koroks

"Ancient Sea"- Just shooting off the Wind Waker connection, we have another possible hint.

This ingredient is found on solid earth, meaning that the Great Plateau and possibly all of Hyrule was underwater at some point. Maybe.

Skyloft?- This is a bit of a reach, but so is anything Skyward Sword related at this point. Geography does match in my opinion. The Old Man does mention that the Great Plateau is the birthplace of the kingdom. Skyloft fits that definition nicely.


The Master Sword's Location- Man, this thing has been through hell it seems like. Its all busted and maybe rusted? It's definitely been overtaken by the elements, seems its been quite a while since someone has touched it.
The location is iffy to place, but it looks to me like the Lost Woods, the area the Master Sword is found in during Link's journey in A Link To the Past. It very much resembles the promotional art as well, god rays and all.


For the record, the Master Sword is only found in this location in the Defeated Hero/Downfall timeline. I guess it's technically in the forest of Twilight Princess, but not in this way.

Calamity Ganon- Ganon is Ganon in this game, not Ganondorf, not Demise. It doesn't even have a pronoun attached to it, Calamity Ganon is an evil, corrupt, and deadly force of doom. Ganon being Ganon is important because it would mean Ganondorf has already transformed into Ganon, and the idea of it being a force rather than a being could possibly spell other things for the timeline placement of BotW.

Speaking of his current predicament

Hyrule Castle- The fact that Hyrule Castle stands means that this could not take place in the Defeated Hero/Downfall Timeline, as Hyrule Castle is replaced by Ganon's following the Hero's defeat.

Shiekah's Prominence-



I dont know what this exactly means, but good info to know nonetheless. Its worth noting that Sheikah are not very prominent at all in the Adult Timeline, as they are presumed to be extinct. Their references in the Child Timeline are a bit strange, as the Sheikah symbol and an offshoot of it appears throughout the game, and even in the Twilight Realm, but they are never mentioned by name. Impa, a Sheikah, appears readily throughout all of the Fallen Hero Timeline though.

Telepathic Zelda- A reach, but if we assume that the voice talking to Link is Zelda, its a nice connection to the franchise as a whole. Zelda can telepathically communicate with Link in some ways. However, direct talking like seen in this game is something she only does in A Link To The Past. A reach, but that game is my favorite so I'm taking all I can get

Cryptic Aounuma Quotes- These should be taken a bit less seriously, but they are still very intriguing.
While making the latest title for The Legend of Zelda, when I look at this remake, I feel like this is the origin point of the new title we’re making right now. After playing this game you may have some “Oh I see!” moments when playing the [upcoming] new game, so I’ll be glad if you play Twilight Princess HD while waiting in anticipation for the latest title of Legend of Zelda.
...
It’s not the save data itself, but “Part of the data saved in the Wolf Link amiibo can be brought over and used in the new title too”. For some people, when they play the new title, they might feel the urge to play Twilight Princess HD one more time.
The second quote can be attributed to how we now know the Wolf Link amiibo works, its the first quote that's just been nagging me.
Another one
At a group Q&A with reporters on Sunday, Zelda producer Eiji Aonuma was asked where the game fit into the franchise timeline. Aonuma said he didn’t want to say much about the story at the moment but said he’d stare a hint. He noted that that the t-shirt he was wearing showed the symbol for the Sheikah stones and that it was the same one from The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time. (In Breath of the Wild, the reawakened Link uses a high-tech item called the “Sheikah slate”). Aonuma also reminded people that, at the start of this game, Link is told he’s been asleep for 100 years. “He teased: “You can decide what this means.”​
Do you mind if I use this for a video? I've been looking make one that breaks down all the connections, nods, and every bit of evidence placement with the other games, and you pretty much wrote out everything that was in my head.
 
#23
A number of things to look into after this new trailer as well as some of the artwork and screenshots they've been releasing the past few weeks. Big stuff. Gonna need a break and will probably wait until people overanalyze it for me, but stay tuned.
 
#24
Updated. Post-Game Awards trailer stuff solved thanks to the latest trailer from the Switch presentation. Added some more clues, most prominent one being that the game takes place after Ocarina of Time, which really doesnt help anything.

The presence of Rito and Zora in the same game is very confusing. I dont know what to think.
 

Juegos

All mods go to heaven.
Moderator
#25
The presence of Rito and Zora in the same game is very confusing. I dont know what to think.
What if Zora split up into two races leading up to Wind Waker: one to live underwater and another to live on land. Then once the water level receded to pre-Wind Waker levels, both races ended up in proximity to one another.
 
#26
What if Zora split up into two races leading up to Wind Waker: one to live underwater and another to live on land. Then once the water level receded to pre-Wind Waker levels, both races ended up in proximity to one another.
Not beyond the realm of possibility.
Well, no, kinda beyond the realm. The Great Sea was pretty empty of life, especially fish life. Had to be that way to stop people from finding Hyrule. I think. There are no hints of any other thing happening.

there are 2 Zora races seen in the series, but River Zora only appear in the Hyrule Decline timeline.
 

FriedShoes

MLG
Moderator
#27
So all the little theories provided no help at all.

There is no CONCRETE evidence either of it being a part of any timeline, as far as I've seen, which is disappointing.

However, I will put my money down on it being a part of the Child Timeline.
For only two reasons.
One being Castle Town, and how similar it is to the one in Twilight Princess.
And another being the very first memory
"Skyward bound, adrift in Time, or steeped in the embers of Twilight" (emphasis mine)
Two very direct references to past Zelda games so it stands to reason that the third is also one. Skyward Sword, Ocarina of Time, Twilight Princess.
Its the same in spanish as well, so I would assume its a common line across all versions of the game.

Its also worth noting that the lines and ceremony itself are improvised on the spot, I believe. So Zelda is making these references because she knows of them.

That's all I've got.
There might be some more clues here and there inside the castle or outside, but there's a lot of sparse references to other timelines that it gets hairy using those. Twilight Princess being part of spoken story dialogue and not just world fluff seals it for me.

I do have some slight nitpicks with the story, speaking of which, but I'll post that some other time once I try and figure how those work.
 

FriedShoes

MLG
Moderator
#30
GR: Where does Breath of the Wild fit within the official Zelda timeline?

HF: “It takes place in an age long, long after any of the titles released to date. It is the most recent age. And because of this we believe players will be able to easily immerse themselves in the game. Of course, regardless of the time period, the story does unfold in Hyrule so for those who’ve played other titles in the series there will be a lot of recognizable places to enjoy.”

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL FUCK NINTENDO
 

Koenig

The Architect
#31
GR: Where does Breath of the Wild fit within the official Zelda timeline?

HF: “It takes place in an age long, long after any of the titles released to date. It is the most recent age. And because of this we believe players will be able to easily immerse themselves in the game. Of course, regardless of the time period, the story does unfold in Hyrule so for those who’ve played other titles in the series there will be a lot of recognizable places to enjoy.”

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL FUCK NINTENDO
I do find it funny that despite the rise and fall of a super advanced Hylian civilization and 10,000+ year time span, yet all of the usual land marks from OoT still are noticeable around the world.

:msilly:

I loved the game, but I get the feeling they could have been a bit more ambitious with the changes and creations they dotted around Hyreal. I guess just like the three wielders of the Triforce, Hyrule too is destined for an endless cycle.
 
#32
MEGABUMP

NEW ZELDA, MORE SPECULATION

while it has been previously determined (by me) that this game takes place eons into the Child timeline, and by Aonuma's own words its the most recent game in Zelda's history (heck they built robots before they ended up regressing back to medieval stuff), there's new tidbits in this small teaser that further illuminate.
Maybe. I personally don't completely buy this dude's logic, that this Ganondorf is the exact same Ganondorf from Twilight Princess, but man wouldnt that be cool. Imagine if Twilight shit returns, as an "easy" way to repurpose the open world we already see. Hell, Wolf Link is technically Breath Of The Wild canon.

here's the video, its pretty good.
 
#33
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...the-wilds-timeline-placing-must-remain-secret

"In books like the recently released The Legend of Zelda Encyclopedia, we revealed where each Zelda game fell on a timeline and how their stories related, but we didn't do that for Breath of the Wild. There is a reason for that. With this game, we saw just how many players were playing in their own way and had those reactions I just mentioned.
"We realised that people were enjoying imagining the story that emerged from the fragmentary imagery we were providing. If we defined a restricted timeline, then there would be a definitive story, and it would eliminate the room for imagination, which wouldn't be as fun."
"We want players to be able to continue having fun imagining this world even after they are finished with the game, so, this time, we decided that we would avoid making clarifications. I hope that everyone can find their own answer, in their own way."

After this statement and the fact the timeline changes a bit with each new Zelda book (they turned Majora's Mask into a dream all of a sudden after years of it being a parallel world) I stopped caring.

This is a direct sequel to a game that was fun finding all those easter eggs. That's all I care about now.
 

sjmartin79

White Phoenix of the Crown
#34
MEGABUMP

NEW ZELDA, MORE SPECULATION

while it has been previously determined (by me) that this game takes place eons into the Child timeline, and by Aonuma's own words its the most recent game in Zelda's history (heck they built robots before they ended up regressing back to medieval stuff), there's new tidbits in this small teaser that further illuminate.
Maybe. I personally don't completely buy this dude's logic, that this Ganondorf is the exact same Ganondorf from Twilight Princess, but man wouldnt that be cool. Imagine if Twilight shit returns, as an "easy" way to repurpose the open world we already see. Hell, Wolf Link is technically Breath Of The Wild canon.

here's the video, its pretty good.
I had been wanting to replay BotW, but after this announcment (and then watching this video), I really want to play it again. But I'll wait till we're about a year out from the new game.
 

sjmartin79

White Phoenix of the Crown
#37
...how do you know we're not at that point now? :msrs:
Now that is an excellent point. Since they are using the BotW engine, game development will be much faster. So this could be a game releasing in November of 2020.

I would love to see a re-imagined Zelda 2 at some point. Take the story and some of the mechanics and see what someone could do with it.

Because in terms of the Zelda Timeline, that is the last in the series, right?
I know BotW is the last game in the Child Era, and Zelda 2 is the last game in the Defeated Child Era. I guess it really depends on how many years occur in each timeline.
 
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